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Hello
I cannot find out any more details for Susannah Welsh after the 1881c which states her abode as Walker Lane Derby,
Her Mother was Elizabeth Merchant from Leicester and Father Robert Welsh 1861 Leeds. Robert is a bricklayer.
The birth details are suspicious, 9 June 1880 Chatham Kent. Ellen was born 1879 Hammersmith. I don`t know where she is at the time of the census, but I do find her later. They have a brother James no birth details for him and no sign of him anywhere.
Elizabeth travels around a good deal. And remarries. And with other men, so it seems. Many children by different men, some were put into Dr Barnados and adopted out.
But no news on Susannah from the 1881c. I have just searched the Genes deaths for the time scale1885-1892-as I was looking for her Fathers death. So I shall look in the deaths between 1881-1885. Any ideas ? This is a brick wall moment.
Elizabeth Merchant ends up in Chatham married to Edwin Arnold.
Dr Barnardos is where Susannahs birth details come from, if I recall correctly and the 1881c is where I have Chatham from.
Any sprinkling of assistance offered, warmly recieved.

1881 for info
Name: Susanna Welsh
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Female
Where born: Chatham, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Derby St Michael
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England


Name: Robert Welsh
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1862
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Leeds, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Derby St Michael
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England
Street address: 14 Walker Lane

Name: Elizabeth Welsh
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1862
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Female
Where born: Leicestershire, England
Civil Parish: Derby St Michael
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England
Street address: 14 Walker Lane
Street address: 14 Walker Lane

so Robert & Elizabeth are both 19 on the 1881 , Susannah isnt listed with them but is further down the page aged 2 so born c 1878/9 which would make Elizabeth 16/17. ? have you found when they marriad ?

Hello Jan

Thankyou for your reply. And you are correct with your findings.
I am unable to take them any further as a family from here. I know they go to London and have a child John in Holloway Islington. In 1886 but where Susannah has gone I haven`t the foggiest. I cannot work out why thier Mother Elizabeth would be in Chatham in 1880-other than having Susannah there? Sincerely appreciate your help.

?parents marriage after 1881
Marriages Mar 1882
Jackson Mary Ann Derby 7b 599
Merchant Elizabeth Derby 7b 599 *****
SMITH William Derby 7b 599
Welsh Robert Derby 7b 599 ***

Hello Shirley
Love your title. They were married 1882 St Micheals Derby.
Elizabeth had at the last count 11 children, in and out of care, Robert Welsh`s lot.
Does that help?

as you havent got her birth cert are you sure she is theirs?? lol

Does the Barnodos records say when she was admitted. they may have lied about her age in order to get her in for some reason.

There doesn't appear to be a birth registration for her under either Welsh or Marchant/Merchant

hello
Susanna was not admitted to Dr Barnados. Nor was her sister Ellen, who I find later. An Althenia was admitted and renamed Obinia Welch.
I have just re- read the 1881c posted here_would it make a difference with Susannah being listed further down the page? I am wondering if all the children are hers?
Ellen and Susannah were born before the Marraige, not uncommon I know. Robert was born 8 Dec 1882 Sheffield then John 1886. They are married and there are 4 or 5 children_so what took place to put them in care by 1890-Roberts passing. I have no doubt, feel sure that Robert and John are his sons.
On the 1881c where they are boarding thier cousin is also there_Catherine Conray aged 16 from Dudley? I don`t know anything about the other people that they are boarding with.

Hello Astra
I will check with the family and those that are also trying to find more details on Elizabeth Merchants story to see if they can add anything to this posting.t And you are right about finding a GR entry-hence the post-I am at a loss with Susannah.
I suppose Elizabeth could have been working in service in Chatham Kent.
She was born about 1860 Leicester-I am wondering if she had family in the Medway Towns, have`nt come across any data to support that theory.
She must have been pretty poor, destitute to have to put them in care.

Linked thread on RECORDS

There is nothing on the census to suggest that Susanna is related to Robert and Elizabeth.

The only person they record as being related to them is the cousin

Although they lied about being married, so anything's possible.

As for why the various children were put in care, if Elizabeth had a number of husbands/relationships with men, they probably simply wouldn't tolerate other mens' children..........

This looks like her in 1911. Not sure where Edwin is and it say 9 years married not 39

OLIVER, Frederick Arthur Head Single M 29 1882 General Dealer Woolside Surrey VIEW
ARNOLD, Elizabeth Boarder Married
39 years F 50 1861 Leicester London VIEW
ARNOLD, Thomas Ather Son M 7 1904 Chatham Kent VIEW
WELCH, Althenia Daughter Single F 24 1887 Laundress Notting Hill London VIEW

Address:
6 Coronation Cottages Manor Street Old Brompton Chatham Kent County:
Kent

Hello Flick
The other thread is for Robert Welshs death. This thread is for the many children that Elizabeth Merchant had with different men.
The help I am recieving here is already beneficial to me.
The helpers have given me `food for thought`.
Maybe Susannah was not Elizabeths child? Or maybe she died. Ellen born 1879 Hammersmith London_why is she not on the 1881c?
Where does James fit in, birth details? John and Robert -there seems to be more sound leads for them. Althenia born 1887 Notting Hill? GRO?
Elizabeth had a daughter Faith Hope Charity Brown born 13 March 1892 Chatham she was down as E. Brown. Father Thomas Brown-cannot find out more about him. I don`t believe that they married.
She then has Eligah 1896 to Edwin Arnold. Eligah emigrates to Canada but states that his Mother as being Maggie Brown?
William George Arnold-1898 Chatham . was in Dr Barnados and left thier care 1912 Where he went?
Edward Merchant Arnold 1894 Chatham ___Canada-Mother down as Maggie Brown. Keziah Elizabeth Arnold 1901 Chatham _Canada
Peoney 1888 Milwall London-no idea what become of her.
Arthur 1903 Chatham-sent to live with Aunts.
And so on.. But Susannah ???She is the one that has had me chasing my tail. Elizabeth had a few aliases. Moved around until finally settling in the Medway Towns.
Thank you
All help welcomed.

Hello
The 1911c is very positive. Thankyou. One of the children, I don`t recall at the moment, stated the Mother as being Elizabeth Oliver, was she with Frederick? Or has the child added the name for thier own reason?
Edwin I think has died by this time.
You have all most certainly gotten my grey cells working. I am off for my tea, bit will come back on line later.
Warm Regards to all of you. Thank you

Hi
Flick and Astra
I have deleted the other thread. Thanks for warning me that people can end up duplicating information. Sorry.

No problem Dolly. It just saves us a lot of duplicated information.

I note that she married Edwin in 1899 as Elizabeth Merchant Barnes. Have you any idea who she was with after Robert and before Edwin?

Marriages Jun 1899 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>Arnold Edwin Medway 2a 1296
>>Barnes Elizabeth Merchant Medway 2a 1296
May Minnie Eliza Medway 2a 1296
Smith John Medway 2a 1296


I have been trying to find a birth registration for Althenia. It should be an easy name to find. But it is proving elusive at the moment.

This is them in 1901

ARNOLD, Edwin Head Married M 29 1872 General Labourer
Chatham
Kent VIEW
ARNOLD, Elizabeth Wife Married F 36 1865
Leicester
Leicestershire VIEW
ARNOLD, Peaney Daughter Single F 13 1888
Millwall
London VIEW
ARNOLD, Charity Daughter F 9 1892
Chatham
Kent VIEW
ARNOLD, Edwin Son M 6 1895
Chatham
Kent VIEW
ARNOLD, Elijah Son M 5 1896
Chatham
Kent VIEW
ARNOLD, George Son M 3 1898
Chatham
Kent VIEW
ARNOLD, Tessiah Daughter F 0 (1 MOS) 1901
Chatham
Kent VIEW

Civil Parish:
Chatham Municipal Borough:
Address:
2, Clover Alley, Chatham County:
Kent