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Anthony Adolph, professional genealogistWelcome to the Genes Reunited web chat, where you can get help and advice from our resident genealogist and expert family historian, Anthony Adolph. To find out more about Anthony click here.

Thanks again to Anthony and everyone who joined in on the sessions so far.

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Name Date
Micheal Stockwell 20/01/2004 21:03:52

how do i trace members of my famliy without knowing names and dates of birth

You can't. However, everyone has at least one firm starting point- themselves. Your birth certificate should name one or both parents, and you can then work back from that to the previous generation, and so on.

Rebecca Dillon 20/01/2004 21:09:57

Hello. I have been researching my F/H (name of Attryde/Attride) I have found an entry in Times re an Attryde who went to Australia in 1888 to set up an office exporting horses to England. He then volunteered to go to S Africa at the outbreak of the Boer War, leaving behind his Australian wife. I would like to find out more about his Service. Do you think he would have joined an Australian Regiment in the Auzzie Army or been recruited for British Army? He did not return to England between 1888 - 1905. Thank you Bekki

I honestly fo not know what if any regiments were maintained in Australia independent of the main British army at that period. British army records are all at the National Archives at Kew, so that would certainly be a good place to start looking. As with the fostering question we started with this evening, I am not absoltely sure so please come back next time or contact me direct and I will find out the proper answer for you.

Lynn Hannan 20/01/2004 21:10:07

Hi Anthony, would be grateful for help and advice. Trying to trace my grandfather, born 1888. He shows on Scottish census 1891 as a 3 year old, but can't find a birth record for him or his older sisters in Scotland though SRO. Family came from Ireland so assume he was born there and came to Scotland as a tot. Can't find anything in Ireland either for him. I know parish records are afe bet but no idea what parish to start with or indeed how to get to their records nowadays? Think I may have found his father's christening record through familysearch.org Any hints as to how to go from here to find this mystery man's birth record?

It is fair enough to think the birth place given in the 1891 census is incorrect- try 1901 census for a second opinion. you can also seek his death, as this should reaffirm his marriage, and (assuming he stayed in Scotland) his death- this would give both parents' names. You could then seek their marriage in Scotland or Ireland, and once you knew where that took place, you could seek his birth or baptism there.

Janet Tocqueville 20/01/2004 21:10:15

Hello Anthony I wonder if you have any ideas where I can look next.My Great grandfather was born in France in about 1852.He came to this country circa 1881 where he met his wife.I can find no record of their marriage.He did not become a naturalized British subject.Do you have any idea as to how I could go about trying to find where he was born.I believe there is no centralised record of births in France.Thanks in anticipation of your reply.

There are no central birth records in France, so you need to know which area to look in. If the surname was an unusual one you can try localising it through telephone directories. Do you know for sure he was not naturalised (ie, by checking the records in HO1 at the National Archives, with copies at the family Records Centre? That is a shame, as a naturalisation record would say where he came from. However, if he left a will, he might have left legacies to people back home, thus answering your question.

Barry Deakin 20/01/2004 21:12:28

hi anthony.my grt grandfather,desighned an air craft built and flew it, the mod, took an interest and put it on the secretlist. my family were told to distroy any drawings and photos of the craft. but we have found one, do you know how we could obtain ,the plans and drawings, from the m.o.d.my cousins in canada, two who are airline pilots want to buld and fly it, the year was 1909.

By now the records, if they have survived, should have made their way to the National Archives at Kew. That is where I would look for mention of your intreguing ancestral airoplane!

Anne Ridgway 20/01/2004 21:14:08

I cannot find my great great grandfather in any records His wife hannah ridgway head of family born1834 in slaithwaite they had 5 children how would i be able to look for him thanks

I wonder what records you have searched, and indeed what your great great grandfather's name was. Why not start obtaining his children's birth certificates and look for him in census returns. I am guessing from what you have written that his wife was head of the family in a census AFTER he died- so you could seek his death working back before then.

Michelle Suttling 20/01/2004 21:19:34

My ancestor worked in a stately home as the household manager/cook/cleaner in 1878/79. Family lore has it that the people she worked for were either aristocracy or royals is there any way of finding out for sure? Were there tax records in those days that I could research?

Tax records would not be the best nes to use. The 1881 census has been fully indexed at www.familysearch.org- if you are lucky you will find your ancestor at work, in her employer's house, with them in as well.

Midlands Brennan 20/01/2004 21:20:19

I am trying to trace my grandfather's Irish roots. On his marriage cert. (openshaw, manchester 1916: Patrick Brennan to Jane Burgess). However, I've seen a letter to my father from his sister which states that their father's name was William Patrick Oakley Brennan - that he adopted his mother's surname. He is supposed to have originated from Dungannon (rather than Roscommon, which we thought). I've come up against brick walls all the way round. I've traced my father & his sisters' births, that's no problem but his sisters were adopted after their mother died. One sister is eluding me: with the restrictions on searching for adoption records, I don't know what name she was given (Sarah ....?). She was last heard of in Lower/Upper 52nd St. New York around the time of the 2nd World War. The name Santos has been offered as her married name. Again, diving into the New York pond is hopeless. Any suggestions, please? p.s. The Brothers/Sisters of Charity seem to be a favourite for R.C. Orphanages in Openshaw Lancs. Any pointers would be gratefully received. Many thanks.

First problem: I your grandfather may have used one of two names (as suggested above), but this merely means you will have to search under two names rather than the more usual one. As you, equally, have two possible places of birth, search in both- he should appear in Irish Civil Registration one way or the other. Second problem: you have the clue that your aunt could have ended up being called Sarah Santos, you could try locating her in contemporary directories, or (I know this could be a big task) contact the Santoses in the current NY phone book and see if they have heard of her. Actually, it's quite possible she is alive and well and living there as Mrs Santos, so I'd approach this with a fair degree of confidence.

Eveline Williams 20/01/2004 21:38:06

Just a thank you. In a previous session I told you about my grandmother Margaret Moore who had lied about her age to get married. You advised me not to rely on census information but to carry on investigating. You were right, I found her, she had given her age as 24 years and was 17 at the the time of her marriage. Once more thank you. Lyn

Thanks, Lyn. It's great to hear I was of some help. Knowing how not to trust records is something you learn over time.

Lynda Harness 20/01/2004 21:39:55

Hi Anthony I can trace my family tree back to a John Puffett b c. 1849 in Filkins on oxfordshire. Unfortunately here the trail goes cold. I and the kind people on genes connected have looked on1837online, freebmd, the IGI and Ancestry.com in vain for his birth records and those of what I believe to be his siblings. Any ideas as to where I can go from here? Lyn

What a wonderful surname- Puffett! You list an impressive array of websites, but also underline the way so many researchers now are becoming too reliant on them (yes, even this one!). The original records are still out there, and will solve many such problems. Why not visit the Family Records centre, or look at the indexes on fiche at a Mormon Family History Centre? If your John really was born in about 1849 (see previous question!) he should show up in the 1851 census of Filkins, which is probably a tiny village. Again, the original records can be searched on fiche at the foregoing locations.

Fiona Barden 20/01/2004 21:50:07

Hello Anthony I hope that you are able to help. The family story is that my g g grandfather Mark Hinch(c)liffe was a regular soldier, whilst serving in Ireland he met a lady from Killarney and married. She gave birth to my g grandmother Mary Ann Hinch(c)liffe 20 Oct 1850 in Winchester Barracks she died giving birth. I have found no birth certifcate for MAH. I looked up to 2 years later. Also no obvios death certificate for Killarney lady in Winchester and wouldn't know where to look for the marriage certificate if it took place in Ireland. The fly in the ointment is that I found Mark Hinch(c)liffe in the 1861 census as a Chatham pensioner so what does this mean ? Is he more likely to be Navy, Marine or Army. The family informant was born just after he died in 1881. The same census gives MAH as born in Winchester so there's the first match. Any help most gratefully received From Fiona in Huddersfield 21-48

'Chatham pensions from 1802-1894 may be found in ADM 29 at the National Archives. you could also look in the records of military births, baptisms, marriages and deaths which were seperate to the civilian ones, at the Family Records Centre. you've a good, unusual combination of names there-I'm sure you'll find the answer!

Lisa Burke 20/01/2004 21:52:24

Hi Anthony. My Grandfather Joseph Burke (original name Berk)was Jewish, and from Lithuania. He came to England sometime before 1898, as he got married in London then. He was born in 1872 in Vilnius. I have a copy of his birth certificate. My Question is how can I find out when he came to this country, and on which ship. The story goes that he came over from France, now there are hundreds and thousands of records of ships going to the U.S.A. but none at all for England. Where are these records, if there are any. Help....

It would be virtually impossible to find the ship, and of very little help either. Most Jews did indeed walk down to France and then catch a boat to England- there were ferries then as now, going to Dover but also to many ports up the east coast. I have used Lithuanian Jewish records, by the way- you can sometimes get very good results from them.

Mau at the coast Mau at the coast 17/02/2004 20:44:25

Hi Anthony, What reason would you give for a mother to put two different "formerly/maiden" names on her two children's birth certificates.Born 13 months apart and having(without any doubt) the same father? Thank you Maureen

It could just be a clerical error- or you could have two different people! 'Jane Smith formerly Jones' means that Jane was born a Jones and married a Mr Smith. If your two certificates have different maiden names, then have you considered that (to follow my example) one wife named Jane and the husband remarried, to a woman also called Jane but (of course) with a different maiden name?

Patricia Doolan 17/02/2004 20:44:26

HI ANTHONY IS THERE ANY WAY I CAN FIND OUT IF THE PERSON I FOUND IN IRELAND IS MY G/G/GRANDFATHER HERE IN ENGLAND THERE FATHERS NAMES THE SAME ONLY HE WAS BLAKE DOWLING BUT THIS PERSON WAS B.DOOLING

it is certainly possible that a man called Dooling could be recorded on a certificate or census return as Dowling, or vice versa. How do you find out if they are one and the same? By finding out more about him/them. If the occupations and ages of the person in Ireland match the person in England, you will have good circumstantial evidence they were indeed one and the same. At last your man has a good, unusual forename- if he'd been called Psddy you would have a harder task in front of you!

Catherine Hind 17/02/2004 20:48:43

Hi, I have traced my great great great grandparent to a village in Derbyshire (where his parents lived), I have found out that he married an American born in 1821, I am struggling to find the marriage though to try & trace my American grandma, I have looked in the IGI index & marriages for that village/surrounding. Have you got any ideas?

As your American ancestress was born in 1821, she would most likely have married after 1837. If she married in England (or Wales) her marriage would be in the indexes to General Registration, which you can search at the Family Records Centre. Bear in mind, though, that they could just as easily have married in America. Many people emigrated to America, as we know, but bear in mind they didn't all make it big- many gave up at the sight of the endless prairies and caught the next ship home. Your Derbyshire ancestor may have been one of these. If the American marriage is not in the IGI you may have to do some fairly strenuous digging to find out where it might have taken place, by seeing where in America the surname occurs. Try seeking your ancestress in every possible British census, as at least a state of origin may be given in one of them. NB- a thought for you, and everyone else joining in tonight- if you state the name of the person you are seeking, there is always a chance that someone who has heard of your forebear might see it- also, it helps me in most cases to know whether we are dealing with very popular names or (as in the previous example) not.

Peter Day 17/02/2004 20:49:03

Hello Anthony I have a death certificate of my g g uncle who died at the age of 15 in 1896. He was employed in a foundry in Pellat Road, Dulwich (London). The death certificate states he died of scalds at the foundry and a post mortem was held. I would like to find out a bit more about this accident, what would be my next move How do I find post mortem documentation Many thanks Peter Day

Don't worry about the post mortem records themselves. Better and usually more detailed reports of such incidents are often to be found in local papers which, then as now, love a good accident. The local studies library local to Dulwich may hold local newspapers. Otherwise, you can use the fantastic collections of the British Library Newspaper Library, Colindale Avenue, Colindale, London NW9 5HE, 0207 412 7353, www.blpc.bl.uk. A good bibliography of newspapers is the Tercentenary handlist of English & Welsh newspapers, magazines & reviews, 1620-1919, The Times Publishing Co. Ltd, 1920, (repr Dawsons, 1966), and you can also consult J. Gibson’s Local Newspapers 1750-1920, England and Wales, Channel Islands and Isle of Man, a select location list FFHS (1991 repr).

Darren Lewis 17/02/2004 20:56:05

hi anthony, im new to this and im really intrested in tracing my family history on my mothers side. have you got any good tips that can help me ive managed to get to my great grandfather and then i get stuck. i would be most greatful for any help

Well done getting back to your great grandfather. The basic tips are 1. ask as many relatives as you can; 2. make fullest possible use of General Registration of births, marriages and deaths and 3. census returns, some of which are now indexed on-line. Oh yes and 4. enter all your details on GenesConnected! If you want to send details of exactly what you're stuck on with your great grandfather I'll try to give you some specific advice.

Daniel Bryce 17/02/2004 20:57:44

hi I am trying to find ansesters of the name Bryce. but have been stuck around the 1760's for a while. I am stuck with a James Bryce I know he was married in Dunsyre Lanarkshire His wife and her parents where born there as was his 10 children. Dunsyre is a small village is there any local census before 1841? I think his fathers name will be William because of the naming trait of naming the first son after grandfather Dann Bryce

Lanarkshire, of course, is the county of Glasgow, a populous city even then, drawing people in from far and wide, especially by river up the Clyde. Sadly, 1841 was the earliest census. There is no straightforward answer here. As you probably know, the Old Parochial Registers are fully indexed on-line at www.Scotlandspeople.gov.uk but many people come a-cropper by relying solely on the indexes- don't forget that the original registers may contain more information which could be the key to slving the problem. Equally, just relying on the indexes means you may not notice gaps in the registers, or realise when they begin. There may be a gap in the Dunsyre registers into which your man's baptism may have fallen. Also, if you just rely on the indexes (i am not saying that you have- this is just a thought) you may have missed variant spellings, such as Brice, but why not consider other ways the name could have been spelled- such as that wonderful old Scottish suname, Bruce?

Marion ^^^^^ 17/02/2004 20:58:10

Hi Anthony, How can I find out the d.o.b. of someone who was married in 22.11.1833 in Barton le Clay, Beds, They were over 21 but it does not give names of their father. Where do I go from here?

You have a perfectly normal marriage entry for the time- father's names and ages weren't generally given until 1837. If the marriage was by license (the original register should specify) the marriage license documentation itself may name the father. Otherwise, seek the couple in the 1841 and more detailed 1851 census: the later should give you the parties' ages and then you can seek their baptisms and of course you may find their parents living nearby into the bargain.

CelticShiv * 17/02/2004 21:00:09

Hi Anthony. How would I go about finding which home my grandfather was put into in 1926. All I know is that it was in London/Middlesex area and was because of a court order. Also is there anyway of getting hold of the court order to find out the reason he was placed in a home. Thanks

There is no easy short-cut into this area. You may simply have to find out what homes there were in the area and track down their records. Similarly, to find a court order you would need to guess which court it mught have been- and not all records in either category survive. You could use a contemporary street/commercial directory to see what homes were in a particular area- there are good collections at Guildhall Library and the Society of Genealogists. Perhaps, however, there is another way altogether of getting round your problem, which is presumably to find out where someone came from. If so, let me know more details.