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Anthony Adolph, professional genealogistWelcome to the Genes Reunited web chat, where you can get help and advice from our resident genealogist and expert family historian, Anthony Adolph. To find out more about Anthony click here.

Thanks again to Anthony and everyone who joined in on the sessions so far.

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Name Date
Brenda Bobbett 16/10/2012 21:06:05

George Bobbett first shows up at his marraige in 1864 to amelia matilda worgan there other george's born around 1845 but i can follow there trees alongside my george but cannot find his birth or on the 1851 0r 1861 census. his father was George according to his marriage certificate. can you help please. Brenda

One trick to try in cases like this would be to seem the father in the censuses, or even his father's death. You could also seem your George after his 1864 marriage - in the 1871 and later censuses. That would give you his place of birth, and you could look for Bobbetts in the earlier censuses for that place who should, logically, include your correct George.

David Stretton 16/10/2012 21:04:33

Can you help solve this family mystery: The daughter of David PRICE KIRBY, Mary Alice Price Kirby PRATT recalled that "... her father's family were wealthy and owned a slate quarry in Shropshire, and also property on the Welsh borders. Her father (David PRICE) married below his station, to the displeasure of his parents. Who disowned him and disinherited him. He soon fell into debt and poverty. One day bailiffs came to evict her father and his murder scene her father joined the British Army and fought with them through the Crimea War. Whilst serving in the Crimea he changed his identification with a dead soldier". bride (Louisa BOLDEN), a fight quickly ensued and her father killed one of the bailiffsFleeing the murder scene her father joined the British Army and fought with them through the Crimea War. Whilst serving in the Crimea he changed his identification with a dead soldier".

It's still not quite there, but it remains intriguing. Is the real problem that you think Price was not the original family name? Or do you mean Kirby (you give both names as his surname, above). It's pretty unlikely that a soldier could get away with such a subterfuge whilst serving in the Crimea - but I suppose he could have tried such a trick once he got back and was de-mobbed. If so, and you think David Price (or David Kirby) was an assumed name, then by looking in the army deaths you should find such a man dying in the Crimea. Finding his original identity would be harder, but if you have a male-line descendant of his you could have a Y chromosome DNA test and see if that person matched any other men who had been tested: their surname would probably be the same as "David's" original one.

Christina Lincoln 16/10/2012 21:04:30

Hi Anthony, I wonder if you can help me. I am trying to find a death record for my great great grandmother Mary Anne Moran. She was born in Berkshire in 1851 and lived most of her life in Eastbourne, East Sussex. I have found her on the 1911 census living in Eastbourne aged 60 but am unable to find a death registered for her in Eastbourne after that time and no record of her having been buried or cremated in Eastbourne. Do you have any suggestions where I can go from here? Many thanks Christina

There are two possible solutions - widen your search considerably, as she may have died anywhere in Britain, or even abroad, on holiday, say. The other, which sometimes catches people out, is a remarriage late in life. If Mary Ann married after 1911, you'll never find her listed as Moran, but you may find her in the marriage indexes, and then she'll appear in the deaths under her new married name. And if not - this caught me out once, and never again - she might always have widowed again, and married yet again!

David Stretton 16/10/2012 21:03:05

Can you help solve this family mystery: The daughter of David PRICE KIRBY, Mary Alice Price Kirby PRATT recalled that "... her father's family were wealthy and owned a slate quarry in Shropshire, and also property on the Welsh borders. Her father (David PRICE) married below his station, to the displeasure of his parents. Who disowned him and disinherited him. He soon fell into debt and poverty. One day bailiffs came to evict her father and his murder scene her father joined the British Army and fought with them through the Crimea War. Whilst serving in the Crimea he changed his identification with a dead soldier". bride (Louisa BOLDEN), a fight quickly ensued and her father killed one of the bailiffs. Fleeing the

I'd love to help, but I'm afraid your message became a bit garbled, as you can see, above. Can you re-send it in its entirety? It sounds like a wonderful story. However, let's for now address the first part. It could all be true , but family wealth, followed by 'marrying beneath him/her' and then a descent comes up often, and ,once you've traced back to find out who his parents were you may find that they weren't quite as illustrious as they were made out to be, and that David didn't fall so far. This is especially true of a story told by a daughter: the last thing she wanted to do was admit (if such was the case) that her beloved father was a miserable ne'er-do-well: she needed to make excuses for him, and thus the story began. Now, what about the rest of your question?

Peter Keegan 04/09/2012 21:37:21

Hi. I would like find out some information on my G Grandmother Madeline Dorothy Hutton; here is what I know: 1884 Birth registered in Southampton. ?DoB between 19th April - 09th October. 06/04/1901 census aged 16 servant in West Derby, Liverpool. 09/10/1909 Married (Aged 25) at All Saints CoE Church, Princess Park, Toxteth Park, Liverpool to Alfred Holmes. 03/04/1911 census aged 26 wife in West Derby, Liverpool. 19/04/1941 Death aged 56 in Liverpool from a Heart Attack. Father: Samuel Hutton (Master Mariner) Mother: Unknown. Any information you are able help me with regarding details of birth of Madeline D Hutton and her parents would be greatly appreciated. Pete Keegan

You've done everything right so far: the next steps are to buy her 1884 birth certificate and seek her and her father in the censuses working back from 1901.

madge leonard 04/09/2012 21:11:27

Hello Anthony I am researching my mothers family and do not know her grandmothers maiden name She was Mrs Elizabeth Thomas and was born,according to the1901 census in Ebbw vale Monmouthshire Please where do I go for here. thank you Madge Hughes

From Mrs Elizabeth Thomas's marriage record, you will learn her father's name and occupation, and from the census you have learned the age and place of birth, and the mother's forename, so now you need to look for possible births: with a common surname in Ebbw Vale, you may need top buy a number of certificates until you find the right one - and from that record, you will learn the mother's maiden name.

Audrey Drinkwater 04/09/2012 21:07:31

I'm trying to find the death record of my grandmother. She was born Frances Sanderson in Carlisle (15.6.1895), married James Moffat (4.11.1922). She never divorced. She did however leave her husband and began calling herself Frances Holt and was last known to be living in Lambeth, London in the early 1960s. Despite searching the death records under the names of Sanderson, Moffat and Holt I can find no death record for her. I assume her death record would have to be registered under her married name of Moffat. I'm at a brick wall.

You could try Moffatt.... ultimately, it was each person's own decision what they called themselves, and especially with women, you should expect the unexpected. If you cannot find this lady's death record, and she was 'last known' to have been in London, unmarried, then maybe she did, in fact , re-marry, and you should be looking for a marriage re cord under one of those names.

Carl White 04/09/2012 21:06:19

hi my name is carl white but i am trying to find out about my 2x great grandfather albert edward day he was born in wookey. on ancestry according to a military record they have stated he was as him being 20 and they put down year of record 1888. on another page it states clearly he signed up 1893 in cardiff. i have been told by family that somewhere there is a welsh connection so that tyes. also i have his marriage certificate which says he was 20 in 1888 he is a patient in 1891. and i have no record for 1871 or 1901 but the 1901 i think he was abroad with military. in 1911 census he states he was 39 this making him born in 1872 which one is correct?

I note that, regarding Ancestry, you say 'they have stated...'. The only sources that are worth taking any notice of are original sources, made at the time. You ask an interesting question: which age is correct. Which is likelier to be? Men could lie about their ages to get into the army when too young: they could lie about their ages when they married, so as not to appear much older, or much younger, than their wives. You may be best off looking across a wide-ish period at Albert Clay births in the Wookey area, and check them for the right father's name (as stated on the marriage certificate), and then once you have the birth, you'll know how accurate he really was about his age.

Lynette Bye 04/09/2012 21:05:15

Hi. I would like to find out when my Ireish ancester left Ireland by ship. I know it was around the mid 1800's. Also I would like find records of them. I know they came from Roscommon and their surname was Connor. My 3-4 x gr grandmother is a daughter but she remaind in England with her husband James Bye. Thank you.

Assuming the crossing was from Ireland to England (or Wales) you can't find shipping details: these were short domestic voyages, so passenger lists were not recorded.

Mark NIblett 04/09/2012 21:03:13

I am unable to find a possible baptism for my 4x great grandfather James Trickett. I have his marriage record to Margaret Holt 8.9.1821 but no fathers details are given. Having looked at possible deaths there are numerou for this lancashire name. Any suggestions please I have narrowed down to 1854-1859 with the purchase of childrens marriage certs...

Before General Registration records were introduced in July 1837, church marriages did not record father's names - and life becomes harder! I see that you know James was alive in 1854, so he should appear in the 1851 census. This will tell you where he was born, and thus where to seek his baptism. Some baptisms are indexed on this site, and many more are indexed on www.familysearch.org, but failing these, your next stop should be the relevant county record office, and you can enjoy exploring all the original records that are not yet on-line.

marion england 21/08/2012 22:07:11

My name is Frederick Moore My father William David Moore was born in Rotherham in 1902 he was in a blue coat school/workhouse there. How can I trace where he lived, and with whom, when he left there. He ended up in the Midlands but we don't know how.

Blue Coat Schools and workhouses generally have very good records. Workhouse records will be in the Rotherham Archives (or they'll know where the records are) - http://www.rotherham.gov.uk/info/448/records_and_archives-information_and_advice They will probably have the local Blue Coat Schools too.You can look him up in the 1911 census, but thereafter I would not expect to find much recorded about him until he married and settled down.

Diane Neale 21/08/2012 21:42:15

im trying to trace a lydia dyas b1885. she married a herbert a sherwin 1906 and had three children.In 1921-22 she went to belgium to live, i have a antwerp police immerigration inden list showing her as lydia ann dyas not sherwin.i also no she went on to married a agustus van den wijnigat. ( i think thats how spell it .I there any way i can trace this marriige ,it happened in belgium around 1934-24 i all so can not find her death . any help would be great

She probably died in Belgium, then. It is lucky that you know she went to Antwerp - I suggest looking for her marriage and death records there. If she was middle or upper class then you could look for a newspaper announcement of her Belgian marriage in the paper local to where she used to live in England, or even in the Times.

Marcelle Kenyon 21/08/2012 21:35:00

Thankyou anthony, my gt grandfather frederick kohler did settle in the camberwell district, I have viewed his will, he lived till he was 90. I didnt think of trying the national archives, so will do that, the 1901 census only showed his present family ie his new wife and 1st child, same for his brother william, previous one, they werent in this country, is there an archives in cologne i can access? thanks for your help

Yes, but the point of the censuses is that they say where people came from, so you want to look him up in 1901, and 1911, and the earlier ones if applicable: the amount of information he may have given may vary from census to census. Let's hope you find a naturalisation for either brother. Yes, each town and city in Germany has archives.

Steve Mason 21/08/2012 21:26:58

another question im having trouble on genesreunited tracing my cousin freddie masonshe was born 1937 death he lived in devon and died there in 2009 his daughter my couysin from what i was told had him buried in surrey the year he died but i cant find anything on his death in devon or surrey

The deaths on Genes Reunited only go up to 2005. Thereafter, the indexes are only available in a few archives: the National Archives' set is in the London Metropolitan Archives, and other sets are at Westminster City Archives, and the British Library. This is a reminder of how all research used to be, pre-Internet!

Edwin Russell 21/08/2012 21:26:19

My GT GT Grandad Luther Russell b1802 d1842 buried at Swanscombe Kent married Esther Homewood 30 april 1826 at Ifield Kent 1841 cesus Swanscombe Sutton At Hone he was calling him self RELUTHER he was not born in Kent the rest of the family were he had 9 children one born after his death Can not find where he was born he was a Wheelwright . 1841census living next door Catherine Russell widow age 50 born in kent with two children she was wed to William Russell b1782[dont no where] d1833 age 51 could be uncle or brother to Reluther he was a Wheelwright he had 14 children baptised at st Peter and St Paul Swanscombe can you HELP please to find birth place Thank You Edwin

Yes, it really does say, in very nice, clear handwritiing, 'Reluther'. I see there is another one in the 1841 census, too, born about 1828. You could see if he presented a settlement certificate to the churchwardens when he arrived in Swanscombe, and see if his baptism appears elsewhere - have a look in www.familysearch.org. The vast majority of people on the north coast of Kent, who were not Kentish, were from London or Essex - there was lots of to-ing and fro-ing, but of course some were incomers, off ships from practically anywhere, so you may have your work cut out.. Following up the family of the Russells next door is a perfectly sensible and viable option.

Steve Mason 21/08/2012 21:24:10

hi there iv hit a brick wall in my family tree , im trying to trace my great aunt mary elizabeth gould who married a arthur bowen in 1935 in west hame , they had two children , but after this i cant find my greta aunts death nor can i find her chirldrens births or marriages . in west ham my great aunts parents were mary elizabeth and henry thomas gould from wirksworth derbsyhire

You say you cannot find these things in West Ham- you may need to widen the parameters of your search a little, as of course they may have moved elsewhere. Not being able to find the births at all is odd - presumably you are relying on family knowledge for the existence of these children. If born before the 1935 marriage they would of course be under Gould, not Bowen. As to this lady's death, one reason for not being able to find a woman's death if she married, and changed her name, again (or several times!). You could seek Arthur's death, and then see if Mary remarried.

Marcelle Kenyon 21/08/2012 21:11:41

Hello Anthony, After going down the wrong road, again with my fathers side of the family (Kohler) im finally on the right track. My great grandfather Frederick Joseph Kohler born 1868 I beleive in cologne, germany married in westminster in 1899 to a annie florence wood. I cannot find any trace of his birth in germany, have tried many options, but I think he came over with his brother william in 1891 on a ship called the scandia, captains name was Kopff. It was bound for america, but assume they didnt get that far. Have you any advice on how I can trace his birth, I do know his father was also called william, but william and frederick are extremely popular names in germany. Thankyou Marcelle

My ancestors come from near Cologne as well. You can look for Frederick and his brother in the censuses (1891, 1901 and 1911 ), see if they were naturalised (records at The National Archives and searchable under reference HO1 on their on-line catalogue), see if either left wills mentioning relatives back home (my family did), and even see where they lived here, as sometimes immigrants named their houses after their places of origin. Failing that, using modern telephone directories to see where Kohlers live now in the Cologne area, and start searching those parishes, one by one.

Linda Minter 21/08/2012 21:10:35

Further to my previous question regarding Charles Frederick Minter, his marriage certificate shows him to be 'now engaged in war service' in 1942. I have no information regarding which regiment etc and wondered how I could trace him through his army records - the world war 2 records are not very comprehensive?

I haven't had an earlier question about a Charles Minter this evening - if it was from a previous session you'd need to remind me of the salient facts. For this question, you can look him up in the published army, navy and air force lists if he was an officer, and for any serviceman you can ask the relevant MOD archive: you'd need to prove you are the next of kin, and that Mr Minter is deceased. Best start with the army - Ministry of Defence, Historical Disclosure, Mail Point 400, Kentigern House, 65 Brown Street, Glasgow, G2 8EX 0141 224 3030.

Sue Key 21/08/2012 21:10:35

Hi Anthony, Can you solve a puzzle! I have the marriage certificate of my great grand parents Sarah Ann Woolley and William Taylor St Peter's Church Belper 1st September 1902, Sarah Ann is 23 and William 20! Her father is listed as Edwin Woolley labourer deceased! I am not sure if he is dead or alive at the time of their wedding I cannot find him anywhere. A contact on another website claims he is alive at the time of the wedding, and married to a Sarah. Last night I came across a Edwin Woolley deceased in 1901, not sure if this is the same guy. Family rumours claimed he was born in Leicester and was in fact called Frederick!! There are so many Woolleys I am not sure which is the correct one, and even more Taylors! I do know my grandfather was from the Belper, Derbyshire area ! thanks Sue

If the marriage record states that Edwin Woolley was dead, then it would be rather extraordinary - though not of course impossible - if he was in fact alive. Your problem stems from not knowing very much about him. Obtain his daughter's birth record, and then his own marriage record, and seek him in each census. Then you will have a good idea of his age. You can then check deaths of Edwin Woolleys in the area where he lived, first before 1902, and then, if no joy, after, or you could check the burial record of the parish where he lived - often a useful short-cut in the case of common names (but Edwin should not be too common).

Rosemary Hilton 21/08/2012 21:09:25

Hi Anthony My ancestors are from Lancashire. Through the Genes Reunited, Lancashire Parish Clerks and the Family Search Organisation sites I have got back to a Thomas Hilton who was married at Prestwich in 1738 to Esther Booth but I can't find a baptismal record for Thomas that seems authentic. Please could you suggest any other web sites I could try or any other avenues of research. Thanks Rosemary

You are right to be cautious. I'd advise checking the line back to Thomas very thoroughly in the original parish registers (in Lancashire Record Office) and do bear in mind that www.familysearch.org is only an index, and an incomplete one at that. To go back further with Thomas, you should spend some time learning about him and his immediate family - what he did for a living, when he was buried and how old he was then, whether he left a will, whether he is in the parish chest material (as a pauper, or parish official, or whatever), and of course what names he gave his children. The more you lean about him the better you will be able to work out which of several possible baptisms might be his.