Find Ancestors

Second Round, June 2011. Of course you can read the whole thread. You will then be as batty as I am.

I HAVE RESURRECTED THIS THREAD INSTEAD OF STARTING A NEW ONE. NEED ADVICE. DON'T READ THE WHOLE THREAD JUST GO TO THE LAST PAGE. AuntyS

Forlornly I sit, the brick wall is only a Hill, making no progress, tired of tearing out the hair.......

Frederick William Hill born London 1887 (or 1885 or 1889). I would like to verify the name of his father and mother, the date and place of his birth.

All the sourced information I have for him is from his marriage certificate.

Certificate of marriage: Reg No 130.
Date of Marriage: 3rd May 1919
Place of Marriage: Presbyterian Church, Hawthorn, Victoria, Australia.
Groom: Frederick William Hill bachelor
Place of birth groom: London England
Bride: Margaret Uhlich widow (1917). Previous children 3, all living
Occupation of groom: Signwriter
Age in years last birthday: 30
Present and usual address 111 Turner Street Abbbotsford Victoria.
Frederick parents information:
Father also occupation. Ernest William Hill, occupation Clerk.
Mother (Full maiden name): orphaned early name not known
Certificate signed by both parties.
Witnesses are Alice Davidson (same name as the minister) and B. S. Thomson (no idea).

Frederick and Margaret Hill appear in the Victoria Electoral Rolls for 1919 at 111 Turner St Abbortsford Victoria.
Margaret Hill again appears on the Victorian Electoral Rolls in 1949 in Bendigo. Between these two dates they were living in South Australia.

I have confirmation of the following two children:

(1)Ivy Winifred born 14 Feb 1920

(2) Dorothy Evelyn born 5 August 1923 at 36 Thomas Street Unley South Australia
father - Frederick William Hill 38yrs born in London England
profession sign writer
mother - Margaret Hill 41yrs born in Adelaide SA
year parents married 1919
Previous issue 1 living 0 deceased
informant M Hill mother res: Opey Ave Unley
registered 10 August 1923

What conclusions about Frederick Hill can be drawn from the information:

He was born in London England.
If he was 30 when married in 1919 he was born in 1889
If he was 38 when his daughter was born his dob was 1885
His merchant navy CCD gives his dob as 1887.

His father’s name was Ernest William and he was a Clerk. Therefore dismiss any record, eg marriage signed by Ernest Hill with his mark “x”.
Frederick’s mother’s date of death would have been after 1885 to 1889.
If he was an orphan. His father, Ernest, would probably have died about then as well.
If he was born between 1885 and 1889 the marriage could have been just prior to that. However no way of knowing if he was a first child, an only child or had siblings.

His occupation in the Merchant Navy was waiter 3rd class in 1915.
His occupation in 1919 on marriage was signwriter.
He lived in both South Australia and Victoria


The following additional information concerning his merchant navy employment has been researched through the Newfoundland Canada, the Southampton, and the Kew British Archives. There are no available records to provide additional details. This information is shared because it shows FW Hill was born in 1887 in London and travelled between UK and Australia in 1915.

Continuous Certificate of Discharge No 826359 Frederick Wm Hill. Year of birth 1887 It is a Dis.A Certificate. Place of birth is shown as London.

Information includes (1) Orontes 115707 Glasgow, 4621. Date and place of engagement 31.3.1915 Sydney, rating, 3rd class waiter, date and place of discharge 26 May 1915 Tilbury. Description of voyage: Australia.

(2) Orontes, 115707 Glasgow 4621 Engagement 4 Jun 1915 Tilbury, 3rd class waiter, Discharge 19.7.1915 Sydney. Description of voyage Australia.

There are two reports of Character, signed and stamped (a) 26 May 1915 Tilbury and (b) Shipping Master Sydney.

Yes I have googled, Orontes, Merchant Navy, the Certificate of Discharge and passenger lists to no avail.

aaaaaawwwwwww AuntyS


do you want company?????????


s :)))))

AuntyS


The first immediate thought that I have is that ................... he didn't have a father!


That the name of Ernest William Hill, Clerk, was made up, for the marriage. Not uncommon ..................... no certificates have to be shown for an English/Welsh marriage.


Moving to another country makes it even easier



Plus ....... he says he doesn't know his mother's name because he was "orphaned early"


If he had a father, surely father would have told him the name of the mother?





sylvia

This is where I really like the add button. I can answer and see to what I am reply at the same time.

You are probably very right. I don't see why he should say he had a father Ernest William but in the same breath say he was "orphaned early". I am wondering if Ernest may have been a brother.

Very intrigued by the census image showing Frederick Hill aged 4 living with a Matron Domestic at St Stephens in 1891 census.

However, he was born and his birth must have been registered. Was not it law that all births were registered by the 1890s.

And yes of course I'd like company. Multitasking at the moment. Cooking tea, listening to 20/20 cricket match and typing.

AuntyS


Yes, it was the law BUT ............................


some parents/guardians did not register their children, still do not!

OR

the transference of information from the local Registry Office down to GRO in London might have gone astray.

OR

his name might have been badly mangled at some point along the way


Oh ... did you look for registraiton of Male Hill, in case he was registered before he was given a forename?



I've been multi-tasking ....... listening to the Bronze Medal Hockey game on the TV behind me! Finland won. Now I have to go and make my bedtime tea, and let OH play games on here.


I will be baaaaaaack, as some famous (??) guy is supposed to have said!





sylvia

Thank you Silvia. I actually found a Frederick Hull with a father Ernest????? But where does one draw the line.

Never heard of looking for a Male Hill. You see, learn something every day.

We lost the cricket, but oh boy what a match. Tied up at full time and NZ beat us in a Super Over. Never heard of that little strategy before either.

EDIT. AS I RECEIVE CERTIFICATES FOR THESE BIRTHS I WILL MARK THE PARTICULAR BIRTH CERTIFICATE RECEIVED. THE INFO CONTAINED IN THOSE CERTIFICATES WILL APPEAR FROM ABOUT PAGE 10 ON THIS THREAD.

These are all the births for Frederick William HILL between 1885 and 1889. Now which ones are NOT in the London area.




Jun 1885
Hill Frederick William…….. Holborn central London…….. 1b 726

Sep 1885
Hill Frederick William…….. W. Ham London Newham…….. 4a 252


Sep 1886
Hill Frederick William…….. Wandsworth London…….. 1d 705 HAVE CERT



Mar 1887
Hill Frederick William…….. Shoreditch London…….. 1c 89

Jun 1887
Hill Frederick William…….. Amersham almost London…….. 3a 625

Sep 1887
HILL Frederick William…….. Kensington London…….. 1a 96 HAVE CERT

Jun 1888
HILL Frederick William…….. Mile End London…….. 1c 465 HAVE CERT


Hill Frederick William…….. Lambeth London…….. 1d 531 HAVE CERT

Name: Frederick William Hill
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 16 Jun 1889
Father's Name: Alfred Horace Hill
Mother's Name: Jane Hill
Parish: St Andrew, Stockwell Green
Borough: Lambeth
County: Middlesex


Hill Frederick William........ Pancras London…….. 1b 121




Not London Births between 1885 - 1889


Hill Frederick William…….. Barton Regis gloucestershire…….. 6a 173
Hill Frederick William J…….. Weymouth Dorset…….. 5a 339

Hill Frederick William…….. Norwich Norfolk……. 4b 139

HILL Frederick William…….. E. Grinstead Sussex…….. 2b 147


Hill Frederick William…….. Tamworth Staffordshire…….. 6b 425

Hill Frederick William…….. Stone Staffordshire…….. 6b 41


HILL Frederick William…….. Sevenoaks Kent…….. 2a 644
HILL Frederick William…….. W. Bromwich West Midlands…….. 6b 742


Hill Frederick William…….. Lincoln North of Leicester…….. 7a 533


Hill Frederick William…….. Beverley Yorkshire…….. 9d 110
Hill Frederick William…….. Louth Lincolnshire…….. 7a 615
Hill Frederick William…….. Bedminster Bristol…….. 5c 656

Hmm Not many of them have baptisms to match.

OK FBG. This is it. This gives you all the information I have about him. The possible given names for his mother are Ivy, Winifred, Dorothy and Evelyn, ie the names of his two daughters.

The question is can Frederick William Hill be found on that census.

Oh by the way thank you for your offer. If I can ever reciprocate please let me know.

Oh lord help me for I know not what I have done..

you do now!

The question is can Frederick William Hill be found on that census.

Which census?

~~~~~~~~~~~~to SIC

~~~~~~~ FBG


and


~~~~~~~ AuntyS

The 1911 census. And it really injures my sense of fair play that I should need to request someone to do a look up for me in that overly expensive environment. I just do not have access to it apart from my few credits.


~~~~~~~~~~

Hi Sylvia IC and Fanny BG


I have to choof off. All the computers are down and they need me to wave my magic fairy wand and restore access. Mutter, mutter, mutter!!!!

Unfortunately this won't help much

census search results 1911 address search redefine current search
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image
HILL, Frederick William Head Single M 24 1887 House Painter London Hammersmith VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
297 Reference:
RG14PN297 RG78PN9 RD3 SD3 ED31 SN348

Registration District:
Fulham Sub District:
North West Fulham EnumerationDistrict:
31 Parish:
Fulham

Address:
88 Beryl Road Hammersmith W County:
London

The only other Frederick William I could see was living in an institution so that would have been even less help.

Sal

Another stupid question...
And how will I know I have found him exactly??
There are 10 pages if you tick the variations boxes for first and surnames.....;(

Hi FBG I'm still monitoring the thread.

That, good person, is the $64,000,000 question. You will not know if you have found him. I would be looking for a father, probably named Ernest, who was a clerk and who may have died very early. A mother who may have had the names of the daughters and who definitely died early say within 12 months of Frederick being born. In 1911 Frederick would have been about 24 years old so he may have had an occupation. His father was a clerk, Frederick was a waiter on the Orontes and he became a sign writer on his marriage certificate. So he was not an Ag Lab or a surgeon.

He would have been in the London area. And he left from Tilbury to travel to Australia on the Orontes as a waiter. Edit. Reading this through. He actually left from Sydney to travel to UK and then returned to Australia from Tilbury UK.

I give in before I lose my sanity and dream any more of Frederick William Hill and how to find him.

No staying power me.

Off to try and locate a missing Samuel James Cawley on 1881 in London or the West country for ME instead.

Having as much luck as with those Hills.

this one is interesting

1891 census - household transcription
Person: HILL, Frederick
Address: Manor House, St Stephens, Rottingdean
WHITE, Caroline Head Widow F 45 1846 Matron Domestic
Coggeshall
Essex VIEW
BUTTON, Lucy Visitor Single F 16 1875 Scholar
Dalston
London VIEW
BUTTON, Cyril Visitor Single M 12 1879 Scholar
Dalston
London VIEW
WOODWARD, Eleanor M Visitor Single F 12 1879 Scholar
West Croydon VIEW
SHARP, Martha Florence Visitor Single F 10 1881 Scholar
St Georges East
Cath Street VIEW
WATSON, James Visitor Single M 8 1883 Scholar
Latimer Road
London
Notting Hill VIEW
WATTS, Maud Mary Visitor Single F 7 1884 Scholar
St Georges East
London
220 Cable ST VIEW
LAMBOURNE, Lilian Visitor Single F 5 1886 Scholar
Notting Hill
London
28 Hind ST VIEW
HILL, Frederick Visitor Single M 4 1887 Scholar
Earls Court
London

Found this in 1901

STEVENS, William O Head Married M 23 1878 Paper Hanger
Hammersmith
London VIEW
STEVENS, Beatrice M Wife Married F 21 1880
Hammersmith
London VIEW
STEVENS, Beatrice M Daughter F 3 1898
Hammersmith
London VIEW
STEVENS, William O Son M 1 1900
Hammersmith
London VIEW
STEVENS, Frederick E Son M 0 (2 MOS) 1901
Hammersmith
London VIEW
HILL, Harriet Mother-In-Law Widow F 60 1841 Washerwoman
Hammersmith
London VIEW
HILL, Frederick W Brother-In-Law Single M 17 1884 Painters Labourer
Hammersmith
London