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Debra

Sorry I haven't been online...been v busy in real life!

Found this one... maybe nothing... ? Going to look a little further into this.

1881 England Census about Margt. Graham
Name: Margt. Graham
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: Scotland
Civil parish: Hedworth Monkton and Jarrow
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street Address: 123 Ellison Street
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Domestic Servant
Registration district: South Shields
Sub-registration district: South Shields
ED, institution, or vessel: 31b
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 5026
Folio: 65
Page Number: 21
Household Members:
Name Age
John Mc Mahon 24
Mary Mc Mahon 19
Michel Mc Mahon 1
John Mc Mahon
Patrick Mc Reynolds 28
Patrick Mc Laughlin 25
Margt. Graham 19

Wonder if Patrick is really McLoughlin ?

Ok back to checking on this, might be nothing.

Morning Michelle

Interesting thought about Thomas's parentage, will keep that in mind.

Thank you for taking the time to look - any other info or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Regards
Debra

Debra

I am going to come back to yours again tomorrow...very late here. I am so far only finding same things found before, no new leads as far.

Just a thought- It is always possible that Margaret came to England to have her son Thomas William Berry (Barry) and he was born out of wedlock. She could have entered a father's name using her maiden name Berry and previous name for herself to make it look more respectable?

I have seen many widows remarry...and can't see why she would list herself a spinster if she had been married before? But can see why she would cover the fact she had a child out of wedlock.

Anyway off to zzz i go and back to this with fresh eyes after work tomorrow.

Michelle

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/ancestors/trying%20to%20find%20gt%20gt%20grandparents/thread/1182703

Michelle

Above is the link to my thread re the Conmy family - in the early part of the thread you will find everything re this part of my tree.

In answer to your questions

1. Marriage cert - both Margaret and her father are recorded as Barry
2. James' occupation Guardsman Coast
3. Witnesses Mary McLoughlin & Michael Coughlin

Regards
Debra

Debra

Hi Debra, just come online and will take a look to see what I can find. Can i ask couple of questions:

1) Need to confirm re this marriage cert of 1886. Was her name listed as Margaret Berry? and you mentioned her father listed as James Barry? is this meant to be Berry?
2) What was father Jame's occupation on the marriage cert?
3) Who were the witnesses on the marriage cert?


Thanks Debra :-D

Michelle

Hi Michelle

Revisiting some brick walls within my tree -

I have the birth cert for Thomas Wm Berry b Union Workhouse Selby 1883, mother Margaret Berry formerly Graham, father William Berry bricklayer and Scaffolder.

I suspect that Thomas Wm Berry is the step brother of my Gt Gran Mary Beatrice Conmy. From all the different certs purchased I believe Margaret marries my Gt Gt Grandad Frank Conmy in 1886 but on the marriage cert she shows as a spinster, father James Barry.

Are you able to find a marriage between Margaret & William. Margaret is either Irish or Scottish but have now ideas about William.

Many thanks
Debra

Free to help :-D

Herbert

Happy to have helped Herbert. If I can help with anything else, let me know! Good luck with your research.

Michelle

Michelle, marriage 1 is the right one. I am sure the information I put on my tree as accurate. Not too happy with Reginald's death as I have been told it was earlier then that, but never mind I'll leave it blank. Please don't waste time on the Dexters, I am happy with what I have on them, and will follow up the certificates some time.
The Wakefield area is another big coincidence. My daughter and her husband are living in Dewsbury, very near my ex-wife and her husband. Probably coincidences this big ought to be called "coincisaurus rex".
Herbert

Herbert

Glad you have sent messages to the other tree matches. Let me know what they say, I will be interested. I just checked Ancestry and there are 2 trees there that also list Albert Claud as son of Georgina.

You mentioned Rosa Sharpe interesting to see who was lodging with the family on the 1901!!

1901 England Census about John Tom Clipston
Name: John Tom Clipston
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Oundle, Northamptonshire, England
Civil parish: Peterborough Within St John the Baptist
Ecclesiastical parish: Peterborough St Paul
Town: Peterborough
County/Island: Northamptonshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

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Registration district: Peterborough
Sub-registration district: Peterborough
ED, institution, or vessel: 47
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 68
Piece: 1465
Folio: 67
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
William Sharpe 61
Rachael Sharpe 60
Emily Jane Sharpe 24
Rosa Elizabeth Sharpe 20
John Tom Clipston 21

William Engine Driver
John a Railway Labourer

Herbert

So we have this same problem. Looking at the marriage record which looks to be the correct one for Doris. The names of the children of Doris and Reginald look to be correct from your memory. I have looked at who she married: Reginald R Dexter the record said. If we presume he was also from this area and we put into the search engine the name Reginald R Dexter as the marriage record states, these are the results, and only matching results:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Reginald Richard Dexter
Name: Reginald Richard Dexter
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1896
Registration district: Peterborough
Inferred County: Cambridgeshire, Huntingdonshire, Lincolnshire, Northamptonshire
Volume: 3b
Page: 254 (click to see others on page

There is only 1 other Reginald but he has middle name George and is born in London area.

The only 1901 matching the record above:

1901 England Census about Richard R Dexter
Name: Richard R Dexter
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1896
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Wm Dexter
Mother's name: Fanny Dexter
Gender: Male
Where born: Peterborough, Northamptonshire, England
Civil parish: Peterborough Within St John the Baptist
Ecclesiastical parish: Peterborough St Mark
Town: Peterborough
County/Island: Northamptonshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Peterborough
Sub-registration district: Peterborough
ED, institution, or vessel: 41
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 165
Piece: 1464
Folio: 74
Page Number: 28
Household Members:
Name Age
Wm Dexter 41
Fanny Dexter 40
Sidney F Dexter 12
Richard R Dexter 5
Dora Dexter 3

I have posted this record before. It is the only match.

Looking for marriages for a Reginald R Dexter we only get 3 matches:

England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005 about Reginald R Dexter
Name: Reginald R Dexter
Spouse Surname: Sharpe
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1922
Registration district: Peterborough
Inferred County: Northamptonshire
Volume Number: 3b
Page Number: 410
Find Spouse: Find Spouse

Doris Sharpe is bride

England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005 about Reginald R Dexter
Name: Reginald R Dexter
Spouse Surname: Sewell
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1938
Registration district: Docking
Inferred County: Norfolk
Volume Number: 4b
Page Number: 745
Find Spouse: Find Spouse

Margery D Sewell is bride

This next record is a total NO as it is 1977

So we are left with the choice of the 2 above. As you are certain the mother of the children was definitely Doris then the 1st marriage record must be the right one.

Then to the death. I looked for a death of a Reginald R Dexter birthyear 1896 this is the result:
England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005 about Reginald R Dexter
Name: Reginald R Dexter
Birth Date: abt 1896
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1961
Age at Death: 65
Registration district: Cambridge
Inferred County: Cambridgeshire
Volume: 4a
Page: 166

If i just search for a Reginald Dexter (leaving out middle name) I get same result. There are no other matches. So this concludes that Reginald R Dexter who was born in 1896 died in 1961.

Looking for deaths for Doris Dexter based on the 1896 Doris Sharpe birth record i posted the results are:

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005 about Doris Dexter
Name: Doris Dexter
Birth Date: abt 1897
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1952
Age at Death: 55
Registration district: Peterborough
Inferred County: Huntingdonshire
Volume: 3b
Page: 552

This is the only other record near 1896 birthyear of Doris Sharpe

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005 about Doris Irene Dexter
Name: Doris Irene Dexter
Birth Date: 16 Dec 1900
Date of Registration: Feb 1990
Age at Death: 89
Registration district: Leicestershire Central
Inferred County: Leicestershire
Volume: 6
Page: 1643

The 1952 record is the only one in Northamptonshire

To be certain you will need to get certificates. The birth cert of one of her children to confirm parents as Doris and Reginald and then the marriage cert of 1922. The marriage cert will show ages of both Doris and Reginald, which will help with birthyears confirmation. It will show both father's names and occupations. This makes checking against 1901-1911 easier. If we are lucky there maybe a family member as a witness also.

This is the only way forward with this. Once you have the confirmation, which I am pretty certain will match what I have found, the census records will be easy to find the way back on both lines. I have seen both lines in earlier census records.

Michelle

Michelle it looks like it. I found a reference to Claude on two other trees when i put him on my tree. The date of birth agreed as did the Marylybone. I have sent massages to both tree owners querying if their Claude is the one I have.
His occupation fits as both John and my grandfather Herbert William were working on the Railways.
Incidentally did you notice on my mini tree that Herbert eventually married Emily Jane Clipston, and her brother John (known as Jack) married Rosa Sharpe ? This was due to Herbert and Jack being railwaymen and living in the same area. Coincidences can be odd, this one giving the complicated relationship between the three families.
Herbert

Michelle it looks like it. I found a reference to Claude on two other trees when i put him on my tree. The date of birth agreed as did the Marylybone. I have sent massages to both tree owners querying if their Claude is the one I have.
His occupation fits as both John and my grandfather Herbert William were working on the Railways.
Incidentally did you notice on my mini tree that Herbert eventually married Emily Jane Clipston, and her brother John (known as Jack) married Rosa Sharpe ? This was due to Herbert and Jack being railwaymen and living in the same area. Coincidences can be odd, this one giving the complicated relationship between the three families.
Herbert

Herbert

I think this is Doris birth record

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Doris Sharpe
Name: Doris Sharpe
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1896
Registration district: Peterborough
Inferred County: Northamptonshire
Volume: 3b
Page: 262 (click to see others on page)

All the children of Doris and Reginald were born in Northamptonshire area. So looking for the marriage of Doris this marriage seems the only right one:

England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005 about Doris Sharpe
Name: Doris Sharpe
Spouse Surname: Dexter
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1922
Registration district: Peterborough
Inferred County: Northamptonshire
Volume Number: 3b
Page Number: 410
Find Spouse: Find Spouse

As you know this record lists Reginald R Dexter as her spose. It looks right for not only the area, but also for the fact they had their first child following year after marriage.

Michelle

Herbert

Last thing on Albert, thought I would post because it is interesting:

UK, Railway Employment Records, 1833-1963 about Albert Claude Popple
Name: Albert Claude Popple
Birth Date: 10 Feb 1887
Age: 15
Residence Date: 9 Oct 1902
Station: Spalding
Company: London and North Eastern
Class Number: 397
Piece: 2
Description: Returns of staff at stations and depots as at 31 oct. 1939 1939

He earns £3 15 s at this time. This is 1939 so he is not 15 as listed above! Yet another error!

Herbert

Just found this before i move on....looks like he is your Albert

1911 England Census about Albert Claude Popple
Name: Albert Claude Popple
Age in 1911: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Marylebone, London
Civil parish: Stanley
County/Island: Yorkshire-West Riding
Country: England
Street Address: Lake Lock Stanley Nr Wakefield
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Signalman
Registration district: Wakefield
Registration District Number: 504
Sub-registration district: Stanley
ED, institution, or vessel: 01
Piece: 27414
Household Members:
Name Age
Albert Claude Popple 24
Elsie Elizabeth Popple 28

I have listed his wives details as well

1911 England Census about Elsie Elizabeth Popple
Name: Elsie Elizabeth Popple
Age in 1911: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Harden, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Stanley
County/Island: Yorkshire-West Riding
Country: England
Street Address: Lake Lock Stanley Nr Wakefield
Marital Status: Married
Registration district: Wakefield
Registration District Number: 504
Sub-registration district: Stanley
ED, institution, or vessel: 01
Piece: 27414
Household Members:
Name Age
Albert Claude Popple 24
Elsie Elizabeth Popple 28

listed as married a year

Herbert

Wonder if this is your Albert Claud Popple?

West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1922 about Albert Claude Popple
Name: Albert Claude Popple
Birth Year: abt 1887
Age: 22
Marriage or Bann Date: 30 Aug 1909
Parish: Horton, All Saints
Father's Name: Frederick Popple
Spouse's Name: Elsie Elizabeth Hill

Lists father as Frederick (presume his Grandfather) and this would have been so as to have a father listed rather than Frederick really being the father. He wouldn't have wanted to shame his mother. Often when father was unknown a Grandfather or male relative would be listed as father.

Will check to see if this is your Albert later....for now going back to Doris.

Michelle

Herbert

Often works like that, uncover 1 thing and it becomes more complex!! Well don't worry I am working on this tonight....having a break for an hour or so then back to it.

Michelle

Michelle
OK I accept that. It looks as if Claude Albert was born out of wedlock to Georgina. He would be about 8 when she married John, so was he the father? Don't waste any time looking into that as it will probably be untraceable. This is becoming more complicated the more information I get.
Not surprised about the Mr Baxter the lodger's occupation, all the Sharpes worked for the railways.
Herbert

Herbert

I think you have misunderstood me. The 1901 i have posted for Doris is a mistranscription error. It is the Sharpe family...but there name has been written down wrong. Please note the Popple step son there and the record i posted of his baptism.
There were many errors in the census records. Names mispelt, misunderstood and transcribed wrongly. I am certain this is your John and Georgina.

Michelle