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Brick Walls help on the Census Records***Michelle*

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Sheena

Sheena Report 17 Jul 2010 20:03

hi michelle i just recieved a marriage cert i was waiting for for fathers name could you please try and find john isaacs b 1833 middlesex in 41 and 51 census his father was isaac isaacs furniture broker any help much app
thanks

***Michelle***

***Michelle*** Report 17 Jul 2010 19:37

Happy to help with brick walls :)

alan24

alan24 Report 12 Jul 2010 10:33

thanks for your help chelle,,,,,,,,,,,,, alan

***Michelle***

***Michelle*** Report 11 Jul 2010 20:33

Free to do brick walls if anyone wants help :)

Michelle

***Michelle***

***Michelle*** Report 10 Jul 2010 22:51

Alan

Did find this and thought i should post it...its quite possible that it is another William Payton born in Wolvehampton

UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919
about William Payton
Name: William Payton
Birth Place: Wolverhampton
Death Date: 10 Dec 1917
Death Location: France & Flanders
Enlistment Location: Wolverhampton
Rank: Private
Regiment: South Staffordshire Regiment
Battalion: 2/6th (T.F.) Battalion
Number: 241125
Type of Casualty: Died of wounds
Theatre of War: Western European Theatre

Can i ask what information Grace 1931 has to make her feel the 1899 William was 100% hers? and was her first name Emily?

Michelle

***Michelle***

***Michelle*** Report 10 Jul 2010 22:21

Alan

Here is the death of Phyllis born it says here 1900

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about Phyllis Grace Payton
Name: Phyllis Grace Payton
Birth Date: 11 Sep 1900
Death Registration Month/Year: 1970
Registration district: Wolverhampton
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 9b
Page: 2344

Nothing matching the census or birth records for 1900 for Phyllis Grace Noble??

1) Was she from overseas?
2) Poss she took on the Noble surname on a remarriage of her mother?
3) Mistranscribed or birthyear is incorrect.

***Michelle***

***Michelle*** Report 10 Jul 2010 22:01

Alan

As long as Grace is sure of the 1899 William then this is the marriage of William's parents

Shadrack Payton 1896 Wolverhampton Shropshire, Staffordshire, West Midlands
View Record

Nelly Williams 1896 Wolverhampton Shropshire, Staffordshire, West Midlands

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915
about Shadrack Payton
Name: Shadrack Payton
Year of Registration: 1896
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Wolverhampton
County: Shropshire, Staffordshire, West Midlands
Volume: 6b
Page: 1045 (click to see others on page)



***Michelle***

***Michelle*** Report 10 Jul 2010 21:53

Alan

This looks like William on the 1901 with his mother and sibling


1901 England Census
about Nellie Payton
Name: Nellie Payton
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1877
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: Wolverhampton
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Wolverhampton
Sub-registration district: Wolverhampton Western
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 210
Household Members: Name Age
Nellie Payton 24
Theodosia Payton 4
William Payton 2

1901 England Census
about Theodosia Payton
Name: Theodosia Payton
Age: 4
Estimated birth year: abt 1897
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Nellie
Gender: Female
Where born: Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: Wolverhampton
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Wolverhampton
Sub-registration district: Wolverhampton Western
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 210
Household Members: Name Age
Nellie Payton 24
Theodosia Payton 4
William Payton 2

1901 England Census
about William Payton
Name: William Payton
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: abt 1899
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Nellie
Gender: Male
Where born: Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: Wolverhampton
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Wolverhampton
Sub-registration district: Wolverhampton Western
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 210
Household Members: Name Age
Nellie Payton 24
Theodosia Payton 4
William Payton 2

Address 2 Court Hill Snow Hill

Listed as Married










Brenda

Brenda Report 10 Jul 2010 21:42

Hi Michelle,
I know he married agnes wellington I have also seen their grave.
I have Oswalds birth cert to show who his parents were there wasnt another one born to match so he was an easy one.
I will send for their marriage cert. just to confirm fathers name and as you say there may be clues in the witnesses names. Agnes was easy I found all hers no problem typical.
As for the brother David I will recheck but I'm sure noone has mentioned him, dont know about the red lion pub but as you have found that I will ask to see if it means anything to anyone, its still standing today fancy that.
I will come back to you if the marriage cert throws up anything useful, I think I may never sort this one out, it has been a difficult one.
Many thanks again Michelle for all the time you have given me trying to sort this one out.
Brenda.

***Michelle***

***Michelle*** Report 10 Jul 2010 21:28

Alan

This is the marriage of William

England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005
about William Payton
Name: William Payton
Spouse Surname: Noble
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1919
Registration district: Wolverhampton
Registration county (inferred): Staffordshire
Volume Number: 6b
Page Number: 1362
Find Spouse: Find Spouse

Spouse:

Phyllis G Noble Payton Jul-Aug-Sep 1919 Wolverhampton Staffordshire

will see what else i can find

***Michelle***

***Michelle*** Report 10 Jul 2010 21:20

Brenda

No he is down as David John...i always check the image to ensure the trainscipt is correct.

Do any of your family know of a brother David? Also is there any info in the family of the Red Lion Inn pub i found on the 1871?

My advice would be to get his marriage cert. You know for sure who he married and then the cert will show if John is his father and also witnesses may give clues on the cert, also age listed at marriage to check his age.

Michelle

Brenda

Brenda Report 10 Jul 2010 21:02

Hi Michelle,
Yes I did check the deaths and found what you have put up for Edward J Morris b 1871 I thought this might be a first child then they called a second child by the same name I know they did that back then, I was going through loads of births and deaths to see if I could eliminate some of them the Edwards that is. That could be mary nee Hopkins his mother ? death date, if thats the right mother it would fit in with her missing on the 1901 census, not that I have a mothers name for him.
Do you think that david john on the 1891 is a mistranscribe as his age is about right?? or is this the same name on the original I dont know can you view them ?? perhaps I'm being cheeky asking you this or do you have to pay to view it was just a thought I know I have paid to view and get copies of the 1911 and 1901 census's but I dont know if you have to.
Thanks again for all the time you are putting in to help me I really do appreciate it.
Brenda

***Michelle***

***Michelle*** Report 10 Jul 2010 20:35

Brenda


Sadly this could be the Edward John from the 1871

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
about Edward John Morris
Name: Edward John Morris
Estimated birth year: abt 1870
Year of Registration: 1872
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 2
District: Neath (1837-1970)
County: Breconshire, Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 407 (click to see others on page)

Going to check now to see if it is.

***Michelle***

***Michelle*** Report 10 Jul 2010 20:29

Brenda

This is the family i keep coming back to.Shown here on the 1891


1891 Wales Census
about John Morris
Name: John Morris
Age: 52
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Aberavon, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil parish: Aberavon
Ecclesiastical parish: Aberavon
Town: Aberavon
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image

Registration district: Neath
Sub-registration district: Margam
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Morris 52
Mary Morris 56
David John Morris 12
Rees Hopkins 48
Ann Hopkins 45
M Jane Hopkins 15
M Anne Hopkins 7

John listed as a Tin Plate Roller

I am sure you have looked at this family also. What is interesting is the 1891 here and the 1901 you have wih Jno and Edw both census records are in the same road. Listed as Sandfields Road. John listed on the 1901 as Tin plate labourer.

Interesting also is there is a death for a Mary Morris 1835 birth in Neath in 1896

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
about Mary Morris
Name: Mary Morris
Estimated birth year: abt 1835
Year of Registration: 1896
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 61
District: Neath (1837-1970)
County: Breconshire, Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 478 (click to see others on page)

John Morris is listed on the 1901 as a Widower.

All good but the problem is that Edward J does not show with this family. There is a David J (is this him??) and when you look back at the 1871 for the couple you find this:

1871 Wales Census
about Edward John Morris
Name: Edward John Morris
Age: 6 months
Estimated birth year: abt 1870
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Aberavon, Glamorganshire, Wales
Civil parish: Aberavon
Ecclesiastical parish: Llandaff
Town: Aberavon
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration district: Neath
Sub-registration district: Margam
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Household schedule number: 262
Household Members: Name Age
John Morris 32
Mary Morris 36
William Daniel Morris 6
Mary Jane Morris 3
Edward John Morris 6 months
Jane Hopkins 22

Interesting....wrong age??? I wonder if he by the time of the 1901 had forgotten his age??birthday's were not celebrated then as they are today and it was quite common to not remember the age people were in those days....although 8 years out? So is this him?? John Morris is listed as a Tin Roller and Publican this time. The pub is the Red Lion, road looks like Clarence Street

I am going to look further into this family, and see where this Edward J Morris is on later census records.

Michelle








Brenda

Brenda Report 10 Jul 2010 15:40

Hi Michelle,
Thanks for what you have got so far, I did see the birth in 1878 for Edward John on freeBMD I was tempted to purchase it but wasnt to sure as like you I found the others and wondered what if the ages are wrong on the census's.
As for Henry and Pheobe on the 1881 census being his parents why has he got John or jno down as his father in 1901? but it doesnt say father in the 1911 census the relation to head box is empty?
This has to be my worst one ever.
Just to add Edward was often refered to as Teddy and Ted, this has come from family recollection.
Thanks Brenda

***Michelle***

***Michelle*** Report 10 Jul 2010 13:59

Brenda

I am doing more work on yours this evening as i am busy today but my findings so far are as follows:

Births registered in 1878-9 in Neath in the name of Edward John Morris are 1

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Edward John Morris
Name: Edward John Morris
Year of Registration: 1878
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Neath (1837-1970)
County: Breconshire, Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 582 (click to see others on page)

There is a edward James Morris in 1879 same area but the correct 1 according to the census is the first one.

Infact the next Edward John showing after 1878 one is this 1

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Edward John Morris
Name: Edward John Morris
Year of Registration: 1886
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Neath (1837-1970)
County: Breconshire, Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 714 (click to see others on page)


Now if we look at births in 1878-9 without the John middle name the nearest for Neath is 1881.

Now to census:

Only Edward showing born Neath area in the 1881 from 1878-1880 is this 1

1881 Wales Census
about Edward Morris
Name: Edward Morris
Age: 1
Estimated birth year: abt 1880
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Henry
Mother's Name: Phoebe
Gender: Male
Where born: Neath, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil parish: Neath
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street Address: 51 King Street
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: Coal Miners Son

Registration district: Neath
Sub-registration district: Neath
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Morris 23
Phoebe Morris 19
Edward Morris 1
Charles Morris

More to follow



Brenda

Brenda Report 9 Jul 2010 22:47

Hi Michelle,
This is the problem I'm having. I just cant find edward with his family, thanks for helping me
My Grandfather was Oswald Morris it is him I found on the 1911 census I already have the original so its all from that ;
Edward John Morris head age 32 married 9 years 3 children 2 alive 1 died, Tin heater scored out then heater in brackets tin plate manufact worker glamorgan, aberavon.
They are living at 117 water street, aberavon, There is no other info on it regarding parish etc. family below:
wife agnes is aged 30 born Port Talbot, Glamorgan.
Daughter Agnes Mary aged 9 born Aberavon, Glamorgan.
Son Oswald John Morris aged 4 born Aberavon, Glamorgan.
John Morris aged 73 widower no occupation born aberavon, glamorgan.
Edward and Agnes married oct 1901 after the census was taken.
From the 1901 census
Edw J Morris son 22 plate worker, born Aberavon, Glamorgan, Wales
Jno Morris Head widow 62 Labourer
address 22 Sandfields Road, Civil parish Aberavon, County Glamorgan Ecclesiastical parish: Aberavon St Mary

Thank you and hope this helps Brenda.

***Michelle***

***Michelle*** Report 9 Jul 2010 22:13

Brenda

Need some time on this one. Tricky one, i have found a possible for John on previous census but no link to Edward J on them....trouble is there are several Morris familes in similar area. I have been looking at a poss John Morris with a Mary Morris (nee Hopkins).
I will hopefully have worked this out by tomorrow eve. Have you any other information on John or Edward? What was the address on the 1911? I do not have access to 1911 census on the site i use.
Could you also confirm age on the 1911 of Edward John

Michelle

Brenda

Brenda Report 9 Jul 2010 19:41

Hi Michelle,
Would love some help finding an Edward John Morris born 1878 at Aberavon, Glamorgan.
I have him on 1911and 1901 census but cannot seem to trace him further back. I was hoping to get his birth cert., but was looking to find him on the 1891 and 1881 census's first. The only other info I have on him is his father is John Morris born at Margam, Glamorgan. His father is with him on 1901 census they are down as edw j morris and father jno morris.
He married 1901 to an Agnes Wellington. They are on the 1911 census with children Agnes and Oswald and father John is on this too.
Anything would be really appreciated as I'm struggling with this one.
Many thanks Brenda.
Sorry michelle on 1911/1901 census's they were in Aberavon, Glamorgan.

***Michelle***

***Michelle*** Report 9 Jul 2010 16:16

I am free to help with Brick walls and census problems on your trees :)