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East Yorkshire Parish records

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Marie

Marie Report 13 Jan 2014 13:24

Please Derek, if you have time can you possibly find anything on Stubbs>
Looking for anything on Ralph stubbs 1783/4who married a Mary Baron 1823 and had child/children christened at Holy trinity Hull.
Thank you.
Marie

Derek

Derek Report 13 Jan 2014 21:23

Hello Marie.well this is an odd one!!.at the moment I cannot find Ralph Stubbs anywhere, except his marriage to MARY BARON at Catwick near Beverley 05.07.1823...
Brides were often wed in their own Parish, then whisked off to the Spouses to begin their child-rearing!!...........but Mary was not baptised at Catwick..or at Beverley..

You say they had a child or children at Holy Trinity Hull.............well if they did, they were not baptised there........and I have the records......

Mary Baron appears to have been baptised there, but without further information, there are two options:-
17.04.1812.daughter of Francis and Ann
Born 09.05.1806.baptised 05.11.1806..............both baptisms at Holy Trinity.

But what was she doing in Beverley in 1823?..........and if Ralph Stubbs was born in 1783/4..what was he doing marrying a girl at least 23 years younger than he.......and was it his second marriage at the age of 40?............

Do you have any little snippets?? like the name of a child????........they both appear to have been dead in 1841...though Mary may have been a visitor..........as a widow..........
I'll keep looking.

Derek.

GenieAngel

GenieAngel Report 15 Jan 2014 22:32

Hi Derek,

Could you please see if there is anything there for Clarkson in particular William Clarkson who was in Ocean Place Hull in 1845 he was born in Thirsk Yorkshire in 1789. He also had a brother John who could be there as well. I do hope you can help me.

Liz :-)

Derek

Derek Report 16 Jan 2014 15:07

Hello Liz...............You say that William was in Ocean Place in 1845...strange date..when I'd have expected you to quote 1841 or perhaps 1851.........
First thing...William Clarkson died in 1846 Holy Trinity Hull.....

I have found the family, or some of it at Ocean Place Holy trinity on both the 1841 and 1851 census......BUT..........WILLIAM CLARKSON is shown as being born 1796..which is not necessarily a problem (except of mistranscription)..providing the rest hanga together. On the 1841 William is shown with BETSEY born 1806 in Lincolnshire..and children.......
1851 Betsey is a widow..which fits with William dying 1846....

I cannot at this moment find a marriage for William and Betsey though i do have their children........and in the early stages of my search I have found Alfred Richard Clarkson in 1892 Trade Directory as a Clerk in Ocean place....more of that as I piece it together.....

From the beginning then............

The Clarkson go back a long way in Thirsk

JOHN CLARKSON married GRACE BROWN in Thirsk 08.02.1785...John may be John 26.01.1755 son of John..and Grace brown may be grace 05.06.1765 daughter of John Brown......

John and Grace had the following children......each child is specifically that of John Clarkson and Grace nee Brown..as follows:-

John 02.11.1785
Betty 20.09.1787
WILLIAM 27.09.1789
Francis 19.05.1793...........infant death
Francis 19.05.1797
Sarah 30.12.1799
Mary 16.09.1808

Now then IF the William Clarkson 27.09.1789 is the same William Clarkson on the 1841 born 1796..then sometime before 1828 he married Betsey..and had the following children in Hull..who lived at Ocean Place:-
John 1828......early death?
John William 07.04.1834..Merchants Clerk
Elizabeth 28.12.1835 unmarried in 1851
Mary Jane 12.04.1841
Mennell 28.06.1843.................5 Ocean Place in 1851

Beyond the fact that you tell me that William Clarkson born 1879 Thirsk was in Ocean Place in 1845 (and was clearly dead by 1851)..there is noting to prove that William Clarkson show on Census as born 1796, married to Betsey born 1806...is in fact your William..........BUT............There does not appear to be a 1796 candidate in PR's.

would be very interested to take this further..........and look forward to any information you might have that either proves or disproves my findings.

EDIT 15.20.........1861.Betsey with Elizabeth and Mennel....53 Grosvenor Street
1871 Betsey with Elizabeth and Mennell..both still unmarred at 16.Gloucester Terrace.

Betsey seems to have a few bob, cos she is both House and landowner...!!she died in Sculcoates 1878..apparently aged 76


Derek.

GenieAngel

GenieAngel Report 17 Jan 2014 07:50

Hello Derek,

Thank you so very much you have done really well. OK I found him through his mothers death notice in the newspaper in 1845, he is mentioned as being a flax merchant. The Mennell was an interesting name as his nephew John Clarkson (father Francis) moved to Hull and married a Martha Reed there in the 1850's they had a grandson with Mennell as his middle name so that clinched it for me as your research being correct. Sarah Mennell was Grace Browns mothers name.

Because of what you have given me above I was able to find in the newspapers a marriage in Barton of a Betsey Nettleni to William Clarkson flax dresser this was in 1833 no specific date just lately. Which could suggest that the first John b 1828 may have been his son from a previous marriage. So I take all the baptisms took place at the Holy Trinity!!

Incidentally William Clarkson b 1789 is a 2nd cousin of Thomas Clarkson the leading antislavery campaigner.

I found two of Williams sisters marriages in the newspapers his was a bit more difficult to find as his first name was shortened to Wm. I would be most interested if you find out more.

Thanks a million
Liz :-D

Derek

Derek Report 17 Jan 2014 11:13

Hi Liz..justa couple of things that i was too lazy to dd last night.....

Betsey Nettleni..was in fact BETSEY NETTLEM........baptised 27.04.1802 daughter of John and Elizabeth.....at Barton on Humber....................married William Clarkson 1833 at Barton St.Mary as Betsey Nettleham

The name MENNELL is transcribed on FMP..in one entry as MERRILL......1871 census son of betsey ..a shipping Agent........

JOHN BROWN 08.07.1741 married SARAH MENNEL 22.07.1764..parents of Grace Brown, baptised 05.06.1765

Incidentally a JOHN CLARKSON married ELIZABETH BROWN 02.12.1752..Elizabeth daughter of John baptised 24.11.1725.

I believe.not yet proven, that MARY CLARKSON 16.09.1808....sister of William 1789 and youngest child of John and Grace...was married to a man called GUY..and was the mother of MARY CLARKSON GUY born 1845......just a possibility at this stage.

FRANCIS CLARKSON 18.04.1797..brother of William..married DIANA KAY in Hull 19.12.1826..............

anything else you need, just yell.

EDIT 11.20......Betsey had two sisters....................JOHN NETTLEM married ELIZABETH COOPER at Barton St Mary 29.04.1798........the other two giels were:
Jane 09.10.1798
Fanny 04.05.1800

Another EDIT Saturday 15.08.........MENNELL CLARKSON is interesting.....he never married..was quite successful at his Shipping agent business..and in 1901 he was living with his sister Elizabeth (Widow Mason)..he died 14.03.1906 and left £2792.16s.11d to said sister......

Derek

GenieAngel

GenieAngel Report 18 Jan 2014 22:26

Hi Derek,

Wow!!! Thank you so very very much for the added information i very much appreciated all of your research. I gathered that the Nettleni must have been a mistranscription pleased to have the right name.

I have Mary Clarkson, Williams youngest sister marrying a Thomas Hawxwell in Holy Trinity Hull in 1838 are you able to find anything more on them at all please.

The Elizabeth Brown marrying John Clarkson in Thirsk is one I haven't yet been able to connect on my tree I do know he was from Sowerby and Elizabeth was from Thirsk....... a lot more research needs to be done on that one !!!!!

The marriage of Francis Clarkson marrying Diana was great as I had them marrying in 1826 in Thirsk - no specific date.

The Mennell Clarkson info was great to get he did do well for himself didn't he!!

Once again thank you
Liz :-D

Derek

Derek Report 18 Jan 2014 23:22

Hi Liz............It was 1st May 1833 Barton..for the marriage of Betsey and William........and Mary Clarkson married Thomas HawxWELL !! 17.11.1838 Holy Trinity...
I have stuff on Fanny Nettlem..sister of Betsey........
still chasing Mr Hawksworth......

Derek

George

George Report 19 Jan 2014 23:50

Hi Derek I have a John William Brewer Living at 184 Coltman Street Hull 1920 -39 and Jane Annie. Is she his wife Can you find her maiden name and were does she come from There's also a Constance I know nothing about Would be amazed if you acould work this out for me
Regards George

Derek

Derek Report 20 Jan 2014 18:36

Hi George, way out of my comfort zone here..anywhere between about 1650 and 1911 is my space, and usually in Derbyshire...........However !! you can prepare to be amazed!!

I started by assuming that John and Jane were married and Constance was their child...........dependant upon the documentation you have that supports what you tell me...
..which means that John must be on the 1911 census somewhere.....and he was!! and i chased off on a totally wrong track, based on a JWB born 1897...........in Hull..

I confess it took me hours to find stuff and then discard it..easy enough to make a mistake, becasue i am researching East Yorkshire...which is why tou contacted me............but I love a battle...........and eventually found the marriage between JOHN WILLIAM BREWER and JANE ANNIE NEESAM in 1897..in Doncaster!!,, and she is from Middlesborough!!..and her family are from York and John's family from Northallerton............and they never cam near to Hull until 1920 at the earliest.......

I have now got a detailed history of the Brewers and the Neesams back to 1811 ish.........BUT I have to go out to an AGM tonight..and will give you full chapter and verse when i return.

Summary:-
William Brewer 1811>>>>> John Brewer 1836>>>>>>JOHN WILLIAM BREWER 1866>>>>>>CONSTANCE BREWER 1903 plus sister Gertie

John Neesom 1796 >>>>>>> Thomas Neesam 1816 >>>>>>Johnson Neesam 1850>>>>>>Jane Annie Neesam 1877 >>>>>> Constance Brewer 1903.

John William Brewer got knocked off a Motorbike in 1930..along with a Miss Norah Brown....mmmmm....who was she??..and in 1933 he was selected as a Hull City Councillor.......

More later....gotts go..as they say.......

Derek.

GenieAngel

GenieAngel Report 20 Jan 2014 19:41

Hi Derek,

Thank you so much for the marriage dates very much appreciated I am looking forward to seeing what you have on Fanny Nettlem and hopefully Thomas Hawxwell.

Liz :-D

George

George Report 20 Jan 2014 22:49

I am Amazed, Derek. Thank You very much would love to know the rest of what you found out If I Knew were you were you lived. I'd Come and Buy you a couple of Drinks (seriously) Waiting in anticipation of more findings.
Regards George

George

George Report 21 Jan 2014 13:56

Derek, I can't find John Brewer 1836 anywhere. Where was he born. etc. Please.

Derek

Derek Report 21 Jan 2014 21:57

OK George..since you ask about John 1836..let's start with the BREWER family....originating from Walkington nr Market Weighton in East Yorkshire......

WILLIAM BREWER 1811 Walkington a Groom married HARRIOTT HALL born Market Weighton 1813...............on 23.11.1833 at Rowley..pretty well the next village.

They had several children:-

Jame Hall Brewer baptised 08.05.1834
JOHN BREWER July 1836
Joseph 14.05.1838
Henry 06.08.1844
Ann 06.08.1846

They are all on the 1841 Census.

In 1851 John is Groom aged 14

In 1861 John is lodging near York and is a groom /Footman

In 1871 he is married to ISABELLA LEADLEY....whom he married at York 1863

They have two chldren at least Richard 1846............and JOHN WILLIAM born York 1866

John William appears to have lived a pretty privileged childhood because in 1881 he is a pupil at a private school at Peasholme Green, Clifton York..at St Anthony's Hall...........(and since i am actually from York..I know the Clifton/Bootham part of York is and was the poshest part of the City..and I believe that St.Anthony's Hall was part of either Bootham School, or York Minster School)

in 1891.John William is a Bookeeper..Single, and lodging in York.

1901.......He is married (1899) to Jane Annie NEESAM from Middlesboro ( the famil, as you will see later was from Brompton Northallerton)

In 1911.John and jane are in Doncaster with Constance aged 8 and Gertrude aged 6........all of which answers your original question i believe.

There is a marriage for a CONSTANCE BREWER JAS 1927 to John W Hemingway...???????????????
I've just noticed that you asked me a year ago about Brewers in Hull at the beginning of the 19th Century..which you said were your relatives............well this lot seem to be a different lot altogether..not getting to Hull till after 1920.....
I'll be back later with the NEESAMs

Derek.

George

George Report 21 Jan 2014 23:05

I am still very interested and will keep all this info for future reference as I'm convinced they will join up somewhere along the line Thanks for your time and Interest. Please continue giving me info with what you have researched
"Thank You very much"
Regards George

George

George Report 21 Jan 2014 23:28

Derek, What I am really trying to prove is My Dad is Lewis Septimus Brewer b. Hull or Sculcoates That's True. My elder brother who is about 69 and ill. told me when I was you a youngster my mam used to cook stew and other meals and he and I took it round to Granddad's down Coltman Street I do not recall ever knowing my grand father and I came across the John William Brewer in Coltman Street and assumed that was him. (Sorry). Any help much appreciated. ( Its Really Bugging Me )
Regards George

Derek

Derek Report 22 Jan 2014 12:32

Ok George.....shirtsleeves up and down to business.....forget everything I've told you for the minute..........

We definitely have a John William Brewer living in Coltman Street in the 20's and 30's..and depending on his age (born 1869) I have researched him correctly and accurately.
But there is no evidence at the moment that it is the right JWB........and indeed in light of what i have found today...it is actually unlikely.........simply by age.......

LEWIS SEPTIMUS BREWER was born OND 1919..in Sculcoates, and his mother's maiden name was MORRIS......JWB born 1869 did not have a son by 1911....so is not Lewis's father, and therefore not your grandfather........with me so far?????
The only Brewer ? Morris marriage i can find is in Bolton Lancs 1920..Her name was Minnie.
Lewis Septimus Brewer married Maud C Silvester AMJ 1942..an if your brother is about 70..would presumably be their eldest son.............

I need to know his name.......and if any of these names mean anything to you then i need to know,
We have also to find out how it is possible for you to have a grandfather in Coltman Street...when you were a child....presumably in the 1940's.

Are you still in Hull?? you need some access to Electoral Tolls for that period..to see who exactly was living in Coltman Street in that period.

I do know from newspaper reports that JWB was there in 1932.......but we now need to know who was there with him......or who else called Brewer lived in Coltman Street...becasue i think honestly that JWB may well be irrelevant..unles he had a son very very quickly after 1911!!
In case any bells ring..The only possible father i can find at the moment for lewis S..is FRANK W BREWER who married Minnie Morris at Bolton 1920......Frank may have come from Lincolnshire....

Back later.

Derek.

Derek

Derek Report 22 Jan 2014 13:11

In addition to my earlier message below............are you sure about Coltman Street????...........may I be so bold as to suggest GOULTON STREET number 16???

Death Notice September 7th 1948........DAVID BREWER at the above address died (in August) aged 5 months..son of LOUIS and MAUD C..mourned by Mum and Dad..brothers RICHARD and GEORGE.....Aunty Ruby and Uncle Fred.......

..ring any bells?????????????
EDIT 13.20.........RUBY BREWER born AMJ 1927 Mother's maiden name MORRIS, therefore sister to LEWIS SEPTIMUS BREWER...married FREDERICK F DRURY JAS 1947.......your Aunt and Uncle.........
I'm getting good at this!!

Derek

Douglas

Douglas Report 22 Jan 2014 14:02

Do these records show all register of births in Scarborough during 1880-90?

Derek

Derek Report 22 Jan 2014 15:04

George........this is my third message today..so make sure you don't miss the other two........

I have found out a very great deal about the family of your father's wife Maud Charlotte Sylvester..whose mother was also Maud C...........but your father's parents remain a mystery.Iknow hs mother's maiden name was MORRIS.........and I have some evidence that it was Susannah Morris who married John Richard Brewer......but because I cannot find the marriage or the origins of Susannah..I don't beliebve it.

I'll tell you how you can solve thsi once and for all........send for the Birth Certificate for any of the following:-

These are your father and uncles and an aunt......

WILLIAM HENRY BREWER 1911
GEORGE ERNEST BREWER 1915
LEWIS SEPTIMUS BREWER 1919
KENNETH G 1921
RUBY 1927...................all of them will give the same parents with Mother's maiden name MORRIS

Will cost you £9.20!!

Derek.