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Kimberley M.I.E.

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 12 May 2009 09:20

I am starting a new serious thread. Chill WW. I have not deleted the old one. This one is to fill in the gaps in the life of "that woman".

Mariann Ivy Elizabeth Kimberley b 25 Jan 1884, 6 Marsden St West Derby Lancaster UK.
Father: Alfred George Kimberley born 1857
Mother: Elizabeth Kimberley nee Dickinson b. 1861
Married June 1883 Edmonton.
Father’s occupation: Equestrian

Addresses Newbiggin Co Durham, Essex, Hertfordshire Middlesex.

Grandfather George Kimberley born c.1834
1881 Census has him as widower.
Grandfather’s occupation: Equestrian Comedian.

Mariann’s siblings:
Beatrice AM Kimberley born 1886 Doncaster Yorkshire.
1901 census residing Battersea London.
Florence EM Kimberley born 1889 Wandsworth ?
Ada Katherine Kimberley born 1898

Beatrice married Sidney H. Allen. Child: Herbert W. Allen born Mar 1913.

Travel Kimberley MI dob 1884 London to Sydney Aust 7 Jul 1909 Age 25 single occupation domestic on board the Marathon.

Checking census data for Mariann:
1881 – too early
1891 – no info for entire family available. There are other Kimberley families with approximate same dob and same names on the censuses but they do not fit the criteria.
1901 – Alfred, Elizabeth, Beatrice, Florence, Ada, census data. No Mariann
1911 – too late Mariann is in Australia

That is a brief summary of the information I have.

Mariann appears to have used her given names in any order at different times. I have her as Marianne Ivy Elizabeth Kimberley, Ivy Kimberley, Mary Ivy Elizabeth K., Ivy Elizabeth K, Elizabeth Ivy K, if you get the picture.

I am interested in tracing her from birth until she hopped on the boat for Australia. It is 25 very short years in the timeline of family history research.

Given that all the children were girls there is little hope of tracing the lineage through the Kimberley family name, unless of course Alfred had siblings. Hmmmmmmm! I am also refraining from any interpretation or explanation of the occupation of Alfred or George!

Please feel free to dazzle me with your brillance. I keep going over the same path constantly. I need new sets of eyes, a more nimble brain and plenty of suggestions and theories.






LadyKira

LadyKira Report 12 May 2009 11:50

Well I was curious with equestrian performer so googled ir.
Lots of results.
Not very far down is this list.
There are in fact a number of lists but too long to post in one go. It is not clear if it is one list on several pages or several consecutive lists. You will have to work that out.

It does not state the year it was compiled so you may have to cross reference with some of the other names .
There is a Kimberley on here though.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jassie/theatre/ea/index-page4.htm

East Anglia Region


Alfred BRANDRETH M 33
Theatrical Manager
Caroline BAILY U 36
Performer Of Music
Alfred W. WARREN M 30
Professional Vocalist & Clerk Musician
Marion DICKENS M 35
Operatic Artist (Painter)
Arthur DICKENS U 18
Pianist (Musician)
George KIMBERLY W 47
Equestrian Comedian (Performer)
Edward KNIGHT U 18
Equestrian Comedian (Performer)
Henry BROOKS U 20
Equestrian Comedian (Performer)
Charles KEITH M 40
Circus Proprietor (Performer)
Matilda SMITH U 29
Equestrian Artist (Performer)
William CHAPMAN M 32
Ring Master At Circus Performer
James JOHNSON M 30 (Actor)
Mrs JOHNSON M 29 (Actor)
Hugh CLOSE M 36
Comedian (Actor)
Kate HAMLEY M 29
Vocalist
Charles MAGITTON M 25
Actor Theatrical
Louisa MAGITTON M 23
Actor Theatrical
Edith CAVENDISH U 17
Actor Theatrical
Thomas H. LINDON M 20
Musician Vocalist
Martha LINDON M 26
Vocalist
John Charles JENNINGS M 22
Equestrian Performer
Angela JENNINGS M 22
Equestrian Performer
William ROWLAND M 37
Musician
Caroline ROWLAND M 34
Equestrian Performer
Lizzie ROWLAND 15
Equestrian Performer
Ernest REYNOLDS M 26
Comedian Actor
Mary REYNOLDS M 24
Actress
Fred HEATH M 31
Artist Vocalist (Musician)
Flora HEATH M 32
Artist Vocalist (Musician)
Auther RODNEY U 23
Actor
Auther BLACKLEY U 25
Actor
William CARTER M 28
Circus Artist Performer
Susah CARTER M 26
Circus Artist Performer
Kate CARTER 17
Circus Artist Performer
Lizzy CARTER 10
Circus Artist Performer
William COUGHAN U 19
Equestrian Performer
Henry C. BOWDE 27
Actor Dramatic Professional
W. BRUNSDEN M 24
Professional Stage (Actor)
Clara BRUNSDEN M 18
Professional Stage (Actor)
Fanny K. HAMILTON U 21
Stage Dancer (Actor)
Alice M. HAMILTON U 22
Actress
James R. MAGUIRE O 14
Comedian (Actor)
James PEARSON M 28
Actor
Nelly PEARSON M 28
Actress
Alfred RUSTON U 27
Actor
Wm.H. BATCHLOR U 24
Professor Of Music
George FRANCIS U 19
Actor
Chas. SMITH U 19
Theatrical (Actor)
Wm. JONES U 26
Theatrical (Actor)
John FISHER U 28
Theatrical (Actor)
Charles FROWER M 31
Gymnast (Performer)
Joseph DAVIS U 28
Vocalist (Music)



William WATKINS U 20
Servant To Circus (Performer)
Herbert Clarence Percy DUROY U 23
Comedian
James SHAPCOTT M 40
Musician
Louisa SHAPCOTT M 31
Vocalist
George GILBERT U 21
Actor
Rob. Littlefield GAWTHORNE U 21
Actor
Frank PIERCE M 29
Theatrical Manager
Harriet L. PIERCE M 23
Actress
Lloyd TOWNROW U 28
Comedian
Walter LEWIS M 38
Comedian
Emma LACEY M 27
Actress
Nellie SPALDING M 28
Comedienne
Charles BOOTE M 31
Comedian
Herbert WHITEHOUSE U 31
Comedian
Ada REASBY U 31
Actress
Charlotte ELLIOTT U 24
Actress
Samuel THOMAS M 44
Musician
John WILCOX M 31
Musician
John MC CLELLAN M 40
Musician
Charles LONDON M 37
Musician
Thomas ROLPH M 29
Musician
Frederick LATILLA U 29
Musician
William HARRIS M 64
Steam Circus Proprietor
Abraham HARRIS U 26
Steam Circus Proprietor
James HARRIS U 24
Steam Circus Proprietor
Fanny HARRIS U 20
Steam Circus Proprietor (Performer)
Emily HARRIS U 18
Steam Circus Proprietor (Performer)
Alice FARREN U 20
Vocalist (Musician)
John OATES M 41
Vocalist (Musician)
Miles L.H.W.D. DOUGHTY U 31
Actor and Artist
Joseph MONTELL M 79
Retired Performer
R.J.Thurton SMITH W 50
Ventriloquist And Actor
Fred MAC REYNOLDS U 22
Comedian
William MANNING M 31
Comedian (Ac)
Alfred GORDON M 23
Actor &c
James SKEA M 38
Comedian (Actor)
Emily BENNETT U 29
Actress
Grace DRURY U 26
Pianist
Henry HILL M 29
Actor
Kathleen HILL M 20
Actress
Henry JONES M 63
Professional (Performer)
James BOWER U 12
Acrobat (Performer)
Marguerite BURNSIDE M 36
Comedienne Actor
Samuel CREAMER U 22
Professional Comedian
Thomas MARSHALL M 29
Professional Actor Comedian
John MAYHEW U 30
Professional Actor Comedian
Clara HART M 39
Professional Comedienne
Fred WADSWORTH M 31
Actor
Jane WADSWORTH M 21
Actress
W. F. HENDER M 21
Theatrical Service
Ada HENDER M 24
Theatrical Service


LadyKira

LadyKira Report 12 May 2009 11:53

Mother: Elizabeth Kimberley nee Dickinson b. 1861

Could she have been a Dickins?

Marion DICKENS M 35
Operatic Artist (Painter)
Arthur DICKENS U 18
Pianist (Musician)
George KIMBERLY W 47
Equestrian Comedian (Performer)

Sydneybloke

Sydneybloke Report 12 May 2009 12:07

Hello Just Val. I'm curious. Can't help much with the U.K. side of things. Why Chill WW? And why only up to her departure for Oz. Do you already have that history?
As for speculation about the occupation of the grandparents, I don't know but I suspect an equestrian comedian was a clown on a horse in a circus, or is that too obvious? Maybe his equestrian son was in the same circus in 1884.
We see all sorts of odd occupations. One of my rels was an omnibus driver in 1892 and later a wool scourer. My favourite is one I saw recently on another board, a throstle doffer. Most of my rels were either labourers or, in the early years of the colony, farmers. This meant they were tenants on 30 acres of scrubby bush trying to grow enough to feed themselves, their families and hopefully some left over for trading.

LadyKira

LadyKira Report 12 May 2009 12:18

Ok this is the Home page and it was several lists from a census
but it shows the whole circus/theatre group so you may well find it useful looking at the other names.

THEATRE-UK



http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jassie/theatre/index.htm

AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 12 May 2009 12:29

Thank you for your searching. You have realised by now that these people were circus performers. Equestrian comedians, circus clowns. This might explain why there are so many different addresses during their lives, and also why for the 1891 census they were not in England.


I have posted this query after months of searching. I have already had an amazing amount of help from members of these boards. I do not think for one moment this will be an easy ask. I am hoping that there may be someone who has links to this family. I know there are no matches in GR trees for MIE Kimberley.

All the names are from birth, marriage and death certificates. So far as Marian Ivy Elizabeth's mother is concerned her name was Elizabeth Kimberley, formerly Dickinson and that info is from her birth certificate.

As for your answers; yes you have hit exactly onto the correct people. George is the grandfather and I am quite astonished to see another set of names in the list, that may be a really odd coincidence or the answer to another part of the riddle.

Thank you for your time.




LadyKira

LadyKira Report 12 May 2009 12:32

I expect you have this
posting for my reference


1891 Address: 1a, Key Hill, Birmingham
KIMBERLEY, Thomas Head Married M 44 1847 Brass Founder
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
KIMBERLEY, Mary Ann Wife Married F 43 1848
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
KIMBERLEY, Arthur J Son Single M 23 1868 Brass Founder
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
KIMBERLEY, William H Son Single M 21 1870 Glass Cutter
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
KIMBERLEY, Thomas A Son Single M 19 1872 Brass Founder
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
KIMBERLEY, Florence L Daughter F 14 1877 Scholar
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
KIMBERLEY, Ada M Daughter F 11 1880 Scholar
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
KIMBERLEY, Sarah Ann Daughter F 8 1883 Scholar
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
KIMBERLEY, Beatrice A Daughter F 4 1887 Scholar
Birmingham
Warwickshire

LadyKira

LadyKira Report 12 May 2009 12:37

Mariann’s siblings:
Beatrice AM Kimberley born 1886 Doncaster Yorkshire.
1901 census residing Battersea London.
Florence EM Kimberley born 1889 Wandsworth ?
Ada Katherine Kimberley born 1898

LadyKira

LadyKira Report 12 May 2009 12:40

As you say not quite right
Strange they have the same mames though? I wonder if Thomas was a brother and also used family names. Could be worth following him through to find a link?

AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 12 May 2009 12:47

Colin, Your post came just after my reply. You have of course stated the obvious. On MIEs death certificate it states unequivocally "occupation of father: Circus Clown!!"

The small phrase "Chill WW" was a message to another researcher. Sorry I didn't mean to sound cryptic. Just a bit of lame humour.

Oh yes I definitely know the history of MIE after she reached Australia.

Christine. Yes I have that info. Fairly certain it is another Kimberley family. They inhabited the land like grains of sand through the hour glass, etc ,etc. I am probably going to be doing a lot of discarding of information but if you don't tell me I can't decided so don't give up!! And pleeeeeease be aware that I have been looking for an awful long time.

LadyKira

LadyKira Report 12 May 2009 12:54

1901 Address: 81, Grant Road, Battersea
KIMBERLEY, Alfred G Head Married M 44 1857 Comedian
Cheltenham
Gloucestershire
KIMBERLEY, Elizabeth Wife Married F 41 1860
Shresbury
Salop
KIMBERLEY, Beatrice A M Daughter F 15 1886 General Servant
Doncaster
Yorkshire
KIMBERLEY, Florence E M Daughter F 12 1889
Hudderfield
Yorkshire
KIMBERLEY, Ada Katherine Daughter F 3 1898
Battersea
London

LadyKira

LadyKira Report 12 May 2009 13:13

If Mariann Elixabeth Ivy mixes up her names I am thinking it is possible that other members of the family may have done the same thing. In some parts of the country they often give a set of names but deliberately use the middle one.

Just looking at the circus list I was struck by this one

Marion DICKENS M 35

Could that be where she got her name?

AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 12 May 2009 13:14

Christine, Yes that is the family. You will notice that Mariann is not there. She was born in 1884. so she was 17. Left home?? Gone into service? Joined the circus, changed her name??

Her death certificate says she married at age 25 in London in 1909.
She did not!! Or if she did marry she used her maiden name and single status for the journey to Australia.

A big thanks for that entertainment web page. I have missed it in my searching. That is the type of info I am talking about. The small things that slip through when you're concentrating on one line of thought.

AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 12 May 2009 13:22

Are you saying that when Alfred and Elizabeth K were expecting a child they knew Marion Dickens from Alfred's father's occupation and decided to call the child after her. Or Marion may have been Elizabeth's mother with her name shortened for a "show biz" name.

The other possibility is of course that Marion may have been George's wife. Forget the Dickens, Dickinson bits.

I wish I knew the date of those entertainment lists. They are tied to the census 1881 and 1891. Nope hang on George was a widower in 1881. That info about Marion would have to be from the 1871 census for there t be a connection.

Sorry I think as I'm typing.

Choccy

Choccy Report 12 May 2009 13:29

a marriage in 1909 of an Elizabeth Kimberley

2nd male missing from FreeBMD site -

Marriages Dec 1909 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HICKMAN Alfred Stanley Hackney 1b 964
********************KIMBERLEY Elizabeth Hackney 1b 964
NICKLEN Annie Maude Hackney 1b 964

LadyKira

LadyKira Report 12 May 2009 13:32

You asked for a fresh pair of eyes and I am aware you have already searched.
Hopefully I can give you that.
I post anything remotely connected and sometimes come up trumps. I am just trying to find the missing links.
I guess you will have seen 99% of what I post already and that will confirm what you already know which is comforting.
So no I am not upset if you discard it.

I have searched 1891 plus or minus 3 for no forename Kimberley and have not found her anywhere under E I or M (Findmypast)

AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 12 May 2009 13:50

Ok. That sorted that. It's the 1881 census. Had a bit of a look around the web site and worked out how they open the different areas. Now I need to go back and see what names I have to check out.

Nope tomorrow will have to do for that. I'm falling aleep.

Hi Choccy, Welcome to frustration. I think I know who the missing person is!! That info is somewhere swimming in a pile of papers on my desk. And most definitely yes my heart skipped a few beats when I saw that.

MIEK was single when she went to Australia, according to the passenger lists. All death certificates (both hers and her "significant other") suggest she married before leaving UK.

LadyKira

LadyKira Report 12 May 2009 13:58

Could that be that she had only just got married and her papers were still in her single name. My daughter went on her honeymoon like that. You say you have the husband's name. Was he on the same boat?

One of mine the young man left about 6 months before to go to Canada Presumably to establish a hom. She followed. they were married and then returned so that he could enlist and she gave birth to their son back here in England. That was confusing

AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 12 May 2009 14:00

Ah I see you are beginning to understand. It would take pages and pages of posts to give you all the information and misinformation I have.

Just from these few posts I already have the entertainment lists. I'm really off people who ask questions and then say, I already know that. I am trying not to do that. However, as I keep saying, I am missing something.

Did she change her name completely and stay with the circus. Somewhere I have seen a census with Elizabeth Kimberley as a domestic servant, but it was miles away from what I considered her home. Then again looking at the different address for the sisters maybe I need to search that one again.

And oh I just have this niggle in the brain about her marriage. It is going to take some searching but I've been trying to think outside the square and I now have this really stupid idea. No of course I'm not going to tell, not yet. Forget about sleep! Have an idea.

LadyKira

LadyKira Report 12 May 2009 14:01

I also wonder if any of the rest of the family visited or they visited here.
worth a look.