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ELEANOR (NELLIE) COOLEY (update 17th dec on pg 11)

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Debbie K

Debbie K Report 17 Dec 2010 21:46

I will invest in both

You never now we might hit the jack pot (fingers crossed)

and Janey you have been a great help in helping me with this

All the best

Deb

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 17 Dec 2010 21:37

I'd go for the death certificate for Nellie Burdass instead. She looks to have been connected with the William E Burdass, rather than the John.

But what the heck. I'd go for both. ;)

It's even possible that the Nellie who married the John was the Nellie who died in Chelsea, with the John being somehow connected with the William ...

Looking back, I see I'm guilty of getting too enthralled and posting things I shouldn't. That Reaston-Burdass marriage. Quite recent. We should delete it in a day or too after anybody who might want to ponder has pondered.

A possibly relevant death:

Name: John Burdass
Death Registration Month/Year: 1961
Age at death (estimated): 67
Registration district: Buckrose
Inferred County: Yorkshire East Riding
Volume: 2a
Page: 35

but not John E:

Births Mar 1894
Burdass John Driffield 9d 319

But the only John Es were born in Glanford Brigg, 1861, 1882 and 1914 (mother Hardy). So I'd say the 1894 birth, 1953 marriage and 1961 death are likely the same.

Marriages Dec 1912
Burdass John E Hardy Bridlington 9d 811 - must be the 1882 birth
Hardy Emily Burdass Bridlington 9d 811

I give up, I can't find a death for Emily Burdass to fit either ...


1911

BURDASS WILLIAM E 1883 28 Glanford Brigg Lincolnshire
BURDASS MRS VIOLETA 1871 40
BURDASS FREDERIC J 1897 14
BURDASS BLANCHE 1899 12

Absolutely blasted if I can find them in 1901 or 1891.

I'm just thinking that John who was the father of John E 1914 is a brother of William E 1883 ... who would then be John E's uncle ...



My Ponton thing is ancient history; your search is a bit more pressing!

Debbie K

Debbie K Report 17 Dec 2010 21:25

It is a possibilty that Eleanor found herself a sugar daddy, I would not doubt anything regarding Eleanor

to be very honest with you Janey I really dont know which way to turn with this or what cert's I should get to try and get to the bottom of this woman.

My dad has only obtained a photo of his mum recently from his nephew (at my dad's sisters wedding) before that he had 1 photo only a back view of her.

They was talking a few weeks ago my dad was saying that im trying to find out about his mum (Eleanor) and his nephew just happend to say that he had a photo of her (Eleanor) at his mum's wedding.(my dads sister)

I have read your post regarding your Ponton family so I do reliase things dont happen over night. But you think that grandparent's should be straight forward as you should know a bit about them (how wrong am I)

Anyway I will keep looking and maybe oneday things might just pop in to place

Thanks again for all your help in this

Deb

Edit

Maybe I may invest in this one

Name: Nellie Reaston
Spouse: John E Burdass
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1953
Registration district: Buckrose
Registration county (inferred): Yorkshire- East Riding
Volume Number: 2a
Page Number: 80

Deb

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 17 Dec 2010 20:26

I'll bet all of us come back and ponder this in spare moments ...


Well, I've been looking again at deaths since 1969 of Nellie-s and Eleanor-s with birthday 22 June either 1900 or 1901. (Birthdates are only given starting in 1969, so if she died before that, the task would be monumental.) Since what we're really looking for is what happened to Eleanor/Nellie after 1951.

She said she was 25 when she married in October 1925 = June 1900.
Richard's war records say 1901.

My grandfather thought he was born in 1900. He learned when he was 65 (well, 64), and had to get his birth cert for pension, that he was born in 1901. (And his given names weren't what he thought they were.) It may have to do with that "in my 25th year" business. She may have thought it was 1900, whether or not it was, as she stated 25 when she married.

I've ruled out numerous deaths by finding their marriages, or at least likely marriages for now.

This one is interesting.

Name: Nellie Burdass
Birth Date: 22 Jun 1900
Death Registration Month/Year: 1971
Registration district: Chelsea
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5a
Page: 16538

The steps:

There is no Nellie Burdass birth (or any name like) 1900-1901.

There is this marriage:

Name: Nellie Reaston
Spouse: John E Burdass
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1953
Registration district: Buckrose
Registration county (inferred): Yorkshire- East Riding
Volume Number: 2a
Page Number: 80

There is no Nellie or Eleanor (or Ellen after 1871) Reaston birth ever.

There are no Burdass-Reaston births to that marriage.

The thing is, Reaston is very much a Yorkshire name. And there is one marriage of a Nellie or Eleanor or Ellen to a Reaston, Nellie Plant, in1915 in Yorkshire, with births 1918-1930. There isn't a Nellie Plant birth in 1900 to fit. But there's also no Nellie Reaston death to fit.

One way or another, there's no good accounting for the Nellie Burdass who died in 1971 in Chelsea.

One other Burdass death ever in Chelsea:

Name: William E Burdass
Death Registration Month/Year: 1965
Age at death (estimated): 83
Registration district: Chelsea
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5a
Page: 673

The only William E Burdass marriage ever is to Mary Barton, 1951 in Scunthorpe, Lincolnshire. Certainly the William E Burdass born 1922 in Grimsby; there is one birth to that marriage.

This is the only other William E Burdass birth ever:

Births Jun 1883
BURDASS William Emerson C Glanford B. 7a 734

and there is no marriage for him.


Now, there were two births: Nellie Elsie Burdass Q4 1896 Glanford Brigg and Ellen Burdass Q3 1895 Glanford Brigg, Lincolnshire. Neither is right by year, only the Ellen might be right by quarter. Nellie married Walmsley 1920, Glanford Brigg. Ellen, I dunno.


So what are the chances?

It's rather odd for William Burdass to turn up in Chelsea. Might your Eleanor/Nellie have found herself a sugar daddy??

Debbie K

Debbie K Report 17 Dec 2010 18:35

Hi recieved this email today from LMA not good news (mind you what's new) :)

This is what they have said

"Unfortunately we do not hold any registers of electors in respect of Tower Hamlets between 1866 and 1890.

I have consulted the 1884 edition of the London Post Office Directory that this shows that 103 Globe Road (or part of it) was occupied by William Shacklady, greengrocer. Presumably there may have been residents living over the shop, however, they may not have been entitled to vote."

I really don't know which way to go from here ?

I cant think of anymore avenues to go down to answer my question

Deb


Edit

I think I might get this marriage cert which Janey added

Marriages Dec 1894
Bilbrough James Bethnal G. 1c 361

Deb

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 14 Dec 2010 04:59

I'm pretty sure that 1891 must be here in the thread somewhere too ... it just doesn't tell us anything we don't already know.

It's Elizabeth Bilbrough Potts' mother Elizabeth Bilbrough and half-sister Alice Bilbrough 1885 we're looking for ...

There just isn't really any point in doing everything that's been done, all over again!

I guess Barbara hasn't looked back. Plonk and run.

jansmith

jansmith Report 14 Dec 2010 04:53

taken off the 1891 that is not needed

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 13 Dec 2010 21:58

Maybe we could all just delete our posts after Deb's that starts out

"Thanks Choccy for your time in looking that up"

and Deb you can edit that post to make it 1891 instead of 1901.

It would sure spare a lot of pointless clutter and confusion in this thread.

CelticShiv

CelticShiv Report 13 Dec 2010 21:19

lol Debbie, you said 1901 census again, you mean 1891.

Understandable though, with such a complex family.

Debbie K

Debbie K Report 13 Dec 2010 17:18

Sorry Barbara

Sib and Janey are correct it is the 1891 censuses we are looking for

Sorry my mistake but thanks for your time with your reply

Deb

Edit changed date ( I think I need a holiday) LOL

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 13 Dec 2010 15:17

I do wish people would read the thread.

Yes, Debbie meant the 1891 census. The 1881 and 1901 censuses, the Bilbrough-Potts marriage, etc., have been posted and discussed at great length.

If it were that easy ..................... there wouldn't be 11 pages of thread.

CelticShiv

CelticShiv Report 13 Dec 2010 14:50

I think Debbie means the 1891 census we are having trouble locating her Alice, she has he 1881 and 1901 census details.

Debbie K

Debbie K Report 12 Dec 2010 13:29

Thanks Choccy for your time in looking that up

The problem at the moment is that we cant find Elizabeth Bilbrough b1845 and her daughter Alice born 1884 in the 1891 cencus

As where they are living might give a clue on Alice's real father as the Father listed on her birth cert was decesead at the time and had been for a couple of years

Deb

Edit changed the date for the correct census needed (oops)

Debbie K

Debbie K Report 12 Dec 2010 00:51

Dont Start Janey

I did have the same thing going through my head LOL

Deb

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 12 Dec 2010 00:49

I get it re 138 Ernest -- a relation of Elizabeth (Downes) Bilbrough -- yes, the Downes household (pages 41-42 of 75 at Ancestry).


James Downes 40
Jane Downes 38
Louisa Downes 16
Matilda Downes 14
Alice Downes 12
Ada Downes 11
Albert Downes 9
Elizabeth Downes 5

Civil Parish: Mile End Old Town


There are Alice Downes births Q3 1878 in Stepney and Q1 1879 in Whitechapel -- just checking that wasn't our Alice!

Debbie K

Debbie K Report 12 Dec 2010 00:44

Janey and Sib

Thanks again for your time in this

I think the only answer is for me to get down the the LMA and have a look for the Globe road for 1884.

beleive it or not I have not started my christmas shopping yet (lol) so I dont think I shall be getting down there in the next few day's

But as soon as christmas is over (I think christmas should be moved to another time) I will make it the first job I need to do.

Im sure they are open on a Saturday so it will have to be that day due to my work

So I think this thread needs to go to bed for a while and I will update as soon as I get the information needed (unless we crack it LOL)

May I thank you again for all your time and effort in this and I wish you a Very Happy Chiristmas and New Year

Deb xx

(Dont have bad dreams about Cooley's and Bilbourgh) x

p.s If you think of anything else just post it as I will still be checking Just in case

Thanks again

Deb x

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 12 Dec 2010 00:41

I agree, the Finns quite likely weren't there in 1884 -- for one thing, they were quite young ... and they married in 1890. ;)

Right, 23 Ernest in 1891. Page 67 of 75 at Ancestry, Mile End Old Town Eastern, District 16.

William Lewis, aged 50, wife Charlotte, aged 48, Daughters Emma and Mary A. Nobody of interest to us nearby.

CelticShiv

CelticShiv Report 12 Dec 2010 00:34

I think you still need an electoral register look up of 103 globe rd in 1884, sometimes people didn't reside at an address for long, so just because their is a family with the surname Finn there in 1891, doesnt meant they were they 6 years earlier in 1884. I think if she was born at that address in 1884, then there has got to hopefully be some clues by an electoral lookup for that year.

The fact her father was mentioned as having an occupation as greengrocer and in both 1881 and 1891 the people living there had the occupations Greengrocer, says to me that the address 103 Globe Road must of be a shop, with lodging above it.

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 12 Dec 2010 00:30

And the answer is ... oh lord, District 16, Mile End Old Town Eastern, starts at #95 for the odd numbers ... No, it jumps oddly around. Page 54 of 75, at Ancestry.


edit -- for some reason, I decided to look at 93 Ernest. I'm now looking for 23 and the surrounding households!


"I believe Elizabeth snr a relation of hers was also living in the same street in 1881 not inportant but he was living at 138 "

I don't follow. Elizabeth Sr was the mother of Elizabeth who married Potts and also of Alice.

Debbie K

Debbie K Report 12 Dec 2010 00:09

This one Janey on Page 9

The marriage of Elizabeth Bilbrough is of the daughter born 1868:

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Elizabeth Bilbrough
Name: Elizabeth Bilbrough (spinster)
Age: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1868
Spouse Name: George William Potts (bachelor, Carrier)
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 24 May 1885
Parish: St Thomas, Stepney
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Edward Bilbrough (Cabinet maker)
Spouse Father Name: Thomas Potts (Carrier)

George Potts address: 25 Ernest St
Elizabeths: 31 Ernest St
Witnesses: Alfred Bilbrough, elizabeth Whiteh*ad

Deb


Edit I believe Elizabeth snr a relation of hers was also living in the same street in 1881 not inportant but he was living at 138

And yes who was living there in 1891

it does seem that the street has a big family connection