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ELEANOR (NELLIE) COOLEY (update 17th dec on pg 11)

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Debbie K

Debbie K Report 18 Nov 2010 23:49

You know what Siobhan that could be her. I think I will invest in that birth as it is close to her one

Thanks V much 4 that

Deb x

Debbie K

Debbie K Report 18 Nov 2010 23:51

Flick

Why do you say that please I must have missed something

Deb

Debbie K

Debbie K Report 18 Nov 2010 23:52

oh you seem to be onto something which sounds right

Why would he have his sister as next of kin never thought of that

Deb

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 18 Nov 2010 23:57

I'm confused.

"epson birth not her"

-- right, as I posted, that one is in the 1911 census


"eleanors parents was RICHARD WILLIAM COOLEY AND ALICE BILBOROUGH"

What Eleanor?

Aren't the parents in 1901 Richard Cooley and *Ellen* ?


And I would still really like to know what it was about the Nellie Bradley death that showed it was not your Nellie.

Just so we have ALL the info that YOU have, which has been a bit of a struggle in this thread at times, I think!

CelticShiv

CelticShiv Report 19 Nov 2010 00:00

Toomey does seem to be an existing name, so might not be her.

However I can't find anything for that Eleanor Catherine Toomey beyond her birth as yet and at a quick glance of the 1911 census, she doesnt seem to appear there either.

Can anyone else trace this Eleanor Catherine Toomey after her birth?

If nothing at all can be found, then she could be a possibility for Cooley.

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 19 Nov 2010 00:07

I can't find anything either. There's a Nora Toomey in the 1911, but a Norah Toomey birth to account for it.

Richard Jr.'s mother was Ellen and sister was Catherine.

I wonder whether Eleanor wasn't actually his sister, but his daughter, and Toomey her mother's surname?

It would indeed be interesting to see the birth cert. Would London baptisms have anything? I don't subscribe for that database.


He really would have been young, though ...

Marriages Mar 1886
COOLEY Richard London C. 1c 88
Roberts Ellen London C. 1c 88

Births Mar 1886
COOLEY Richard William London C 1c 2

Debbie K

Debbie K Report 19 Nov 2010 00:09

Thanks Siobhan

this seems very close

I will order birth and update

Thanks v much

Deb

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 19 Nov 2010 00:18

The only likely Toomey parent in Mile End in 1901:


Name: Mary Toomey
[Mary Murtagh]
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Relation: Daughter
Mother's name: Mary Murtagh
Gender: Female
Where born: London, England

Civil Parish: Mile End Old Town

Mary Murtagh 56
Mary Toomey 23
Stephen Haggerty 21

(She isn't Murgath; she's single, so Murtagh must be her widowed mother's second husband.)

Various possible marriages for her 1901-1911 ... no deaths.

CelticShiv

CelticShiv Report 19 Nov 2010 00:20

there is also this one as another possibility.

again cooley could be misheard as crawley

Births Jun 1901
Crawley Eleanor Margaret Stepney 1c 409

Debbie K

Debbie K Report 19 Nov 2010 00:24

Sorry Janey for the delay in answer

nellie Bradley died on 04/07/1986 and her birth was 22/06/1901 in stapleford notts

sorry for delay

Deb

Edit Hang on a minute she had to same DOB but different area

CelticShiv

CelticShiv Report 19 Nov 2010 00:35

okay I am a bit confused.

I decided to have a look as Richard William Cooley's WW1 service record.

It doesn't mention on his service record that Eleanor is his sister. Infact it lists her as if she was his child, showing his marriage date first and then all his children. However he married in 1909 and Eleanor of course was born 1901 when he would of only been approx 16.

Can you type out all the details on her marriage cert to Mr King in 1925. You may have already done this, but I couldn't find it by looking back through the pages.

I am looking for what she gives as her age, and usual residence, plus what she states as her fathers name and occupation.

Also who are the witnesses to the marriage?

I know she was listed as his sister in the 1911 census, however I like to go by evidence, hence wanting to check some things from her marriage cert.

Debbie K

Debbie K Report 19 Nov 2010 00:47

Siobhan

As you know Eleanor cooley was born in 1901 She married a James Alexander King on 03/10/1925 in Poplar

Witness are F A Johnson and the other one I really cant make out
Sorry
Deb


Edit

Sorry father as Richard William Cooley (deceed)

Her age was 25 and her fathers occupation was a newsvender

CelticShiv

CelticShiv Report 19 Nov 2010 01:01

okay from that I think I can see where the problem is.

I do not believe she is Richard William Cooley's sister (despite her being listed as so in the 1911 census) and hence why you can find no birth for a Eleanor Cooley.

If you look at the details she gave for her "supposed" father on her marriage cert, that is actually Richard William Cooley born 1886, who she is living with in 1911.

I do not believe her parents are Richard William Cooley's (born 1886) parents. As his father is Richard Cooley NOT Richard William Cooley. There is no other Richard William Cooley other than the one born in 1886 and then his son born 1909.

So with that in mind, what we need to work out is who Eleanor Cooley really is. I wonder if she was adopted by Richard William Cooley born 1886 and his wife Alice.

I doubt very much that Cooley is her REAL surname.

Debbie K

Debbie K Report 19 Nov 2010 01:04

Siobhan

Eleanor's age was 25 she was a spinster whe lived at 104 fairord? road Bromley

her farther was listed as Richard William Cooley which could be her brother or dad going by how I am thinking at the moment

Dad was decessed at this time (Richard William Cooley)

Witness was a F A Johnson and cant make out the other one

Deb

CelticShiv

CelticShiv Report 19 Nov 2010 01:07

Hi Debbie, if you can read my post above yours.

Richard William Cooley born 1886 was the 1st Richard William Cooley, his father didnt have William as a middle name, he was just Richard Cooley.

I think she listed her "supposed" brother as her father on her marriage cert and seeing as no birth can be found for her. I do not believe she was born Cooley and therefore do not think she is Richard Willam Cooley's biological sister or shares his parents.

The problem of course now, is working out who she really is as we have no idea who her parents really were. It is likely her date and place of birth may be correct, so it is a case of pinpointing a birth for an eleanor that corresponds with that.

Debbie K

Debbie K Report 19 Nov 2010 01:08

Siobhan

That makes a lot of sence

I dont know what to say but a big thank If we can work out where she came from it has been a big thing in my dad's life as he has no clue about his mother

Thanks so much

Deb

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 19 Nov 2010 01:17

Annie Bilbrough in 1901:

Name: Alice Bilbrough
[Alice Potts] >> No
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1885
Relation: Daughter >> No
Father's name: George W Potts >> No
Mother's name: Elizabeth Potts >> No
Where born: Bethnal Green, London, England

Civil Parish: Bethnal Green

William J Bilbrough 29 -- Boarder
Alice Bilbrough 16 >> "ditto" to Boarder


Ancestry has made a hash of it.


I'm thinking it's quite likely that Eleanor was Alice's daughter. Richard and Alice married in Bethnal Green, which is where Alice is living in 1901, so it's as likely that Eleanor was born there.

CelticShiv

CelticShiv Report 19 Nov 2010 01:17

I think the eleanor toomey and eleanor crawley I found births for, could now be possibilities

If the date of birth on either of the birth cert matches 22nd June 1901, then it is likely you have the right eleanor.

I really dont know how else you will work out who she really was born as, seeing as she didnt give her real fathers details on her marriage cert.

Debbie K

Debbie K Report 19 Nov 2010 01:19

Thanks janey and Siobhan

Another avenue to look at

Deb

Debbie K

Debbie K Report 19 Nov 2010 01:24

I will get the birth cert toomey and crawley

and I will update when I get them

thanks for all your time on this

My next step is tying to find when she died ?

this woman is such a pain

thanks againg for all your effot

deb X