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marriage for ellens parents and Gertrudes in glamorgan this is looking even more possible as gertrudes father is John Shea. notice on marriage elizabeth williams ???? I wonder if elizabeth williams is to do with Joseph williams and is johns uncle or perhaps they are johns cousins

Marriages Sep 1886 (>99%)
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CARPENTER Alice Pontypridd 11a 554
LITTLE Charles Pontypridd 11a 554
SHEA John Pontypridd 11a 554
Williams Elizabeth Pontypridd 11a 554

the marriage would go with the pontypridd birth


found this marriage also James Hogan maybe to a williams Now James could be Daniel Hogans Brother Daniel's marriage is in the same place,on page 5
i will bring it forward.
Ellen Williams could be Elizabeth Williams sister and elizabeth named her daughter after her,

Marriages Dec 1880 (>99%)
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Davies Walter Merthyr T. 11a 633
Evans Ann Merthyr T. 11a 633
Hogan James Merthyr Tydfil 11a 633
Williams Ellen Merthyr T 11a 633


Marriages Sep 1884 (>99%)
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Cannings George Merthyr T 11a 708
HOGAN Daniel Merthyr T. 11a 708
McCarthy Alice Merthyr Tydfil 11a 708
Watson Ellen Merthyr T. 11a 708


what is it with this family,,also Christopher Hogan maybe married to a williams same place

Marriages Dec 1887 (>99%)
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Beddoe Owen Merthyr T. 11a 846
DAVIES Hannah Jane Merthyr T. 11a 846
Hogan Christopher Merthyr T. 11a 846
WILLIAMS Elizabeth Merthyr T. 11a 846

there are 2 possible births in glamorgan for Ellen

Births Jun 1886 (>99%)
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SHEA Ellen Swansea 11a 801

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Births Dec 1889 (>99%)
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Shea Ellen Pontypridd 11a 451



and gertrude

Births Dec 1894 (>99%)
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Shea Gertrude Middlesbro' 9d 595

they could of moved to middlesbro before gertrude was born



just checked for ellen in middlesbro births Nothing,so it must be her in glamorgan

I am also following a possible Richardson/Shea connection:

Marriages Mar 1906 (>99%)
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MARTIN Ethel Hannah Middlesbro' 9d 786
MAXWELL John Ernest Middlesbro' 9d 786
Richardson John Middlesbro' 9d 786
Shea Ellen Middlesbro' 9d 786

.....................

And there is a John Hogan on 1911 in Middlesbrough lodging with Joseph + Agnes Williams - Agnes would probably be his sister, though I am
not convinced he is 'Susan's John yet??

Marriages Dec 1907 (>99%)
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ALLITT Jane Middlesbro' 9d 1336
FULLER Robert Middlesbro' 9d 1336
HOGAN Agnes Middlesbro' 9d 1336
WILLIAMS Joseph Gill Middlesbro' 9d 1336

Dea x

Well done Sablon!!

Looks like you may be on to something there - I DO find that it is often useful to 'follow' the witnesses !!

Have baby grandson here at the moment but will 'check back again' as soon as I can.

Dea x

1901 census


Daniel Hogan 29 Glam Pontlottyn Glamorganshire Gelligaer Coal Miner Hewer

i don't know if this is relevent ,but

Marriages Dec 1915 (>99%)
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Hogan Mary K McCarthy Swansea 11a 2418
McCarthy James Hogan Swansea 11a 2418

The district Swansea spans the boundaries of the counties of Glamorgan and West Glamorgan



possible birth

Births Sep 1894 (>99%)
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Hogan Mary Merthyr T. 11a 620


there is also a birth for John Hogan same place

Births Dec 1890 (>99%)
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Hogan John Merthyr T. 11a 542

The district Merthyr T. is an alternative name for Merthyr Tydfil and it spans the boundaries of the counties of Breconshire, Glamorgan and Mid Glamorgan

and found this marriage could be there parents

Marriages Sep 1884 (>99%)
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Cannings George Merthyr T 11a 708
HOGAN Daniel Merthyr T. 11a 708
McCarthy Alice Merthyr Tydfil 11a 708
Watson Ellen Merthyr T. 11a 708

could this be alice's death,maybe not


Deaths Mar 1917
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McCarthy Alice 60 Middlesbro 9d 366


The district Middlesbro is an alternative name for Middlesbrough and it is in the county of North Riding of Yorkshire;

HOUSEHOLD HOGAN JOHN M 1890 21 Middlesbrough Yorkshire North Riding

maybe Daniel

HOUSEHOLD HOGAN DANIEL M 1849 62 Bradford Yorkshire West Riding

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HOUSEHOLD MCCARTHY CATHERINE F 1900 11 Middlesbrough Yorkshire North Riding

HOUSEHOLD MCCARTHY THOMAS M 1898 13 Dewsbury Yorkshire West Riding

HOUSEHOLD MCCARTHY THOMAS M 1909 2 Middlesbrough Yorkshire North Riding

this is from 1911 census

Sorry !!

Marriage at Middlesbrough Register Office April 6th 1918

John Hogan 29 Bachelor Coal miner 32 West St Middlesbrough
Father Daniel Hogan Coal miner

Gertrude Sowden 24 Widow 49 Edith St Midlesbrough
Father John Shea(Deceased) Ironworker.

thanks

And all the other details please from the cert - remember I am coming into this 'new'??
Dea x

Hello, Oh my goodness so much info, i have brain ache !! but in a good way, thank you and also thank you Dea for taking the trouble.

Witnesses on marriage certificate-

H. ? Richardson
T or I McCarthy

Thanks,

Dea x

Dea ,that is the facts from susan on the marriage cert age ,father etc,I have sent a pm to susan for the names of witnesses and told her to answer here,

xx

Yes, I have the marriage and I have all the Hogan's you have but there are just TOO many tangents here.

I need to go back to something 'concrete' and work backwards and forwards from there!

Dea Xxx

Dea this is the marriage

Marriages Jun 1918 (>99%)
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HOGAN John Sowden Middlesbro 9d 1093
Sowden Gertrude Hogan Middlesbro' 9d 1093



The district Middlesbro is an alternative name for Middlesbrough and it is in the county of North Riding of Yorkshire;


Fathers name Daniel Hogan
coal miner
dosnt say where john was born on cert, living in Middlesbro at time of wedding
aged 29 years when married and a batchelor
gertrude Shea married a Sowden then widowed and married John

Johns address at time of marriage was 32 West St Middlesbrough

I found a Daniel Hogan in 1881 living with his Brother inlaw and sister he was a coal miner,but not sure

Hi Susan,

Sablon has asked me to have a little'dig around' here to see if I can help.

Not sure if I can find anything else for you but willing to try!

Can we start off with what we know - i.e. info from the certs?

You have a marriage cert for John in 1918?

Can you give all the details from this please - date, place, names, ages, fathers, occupations, addresses + witnesses etc.

Dea x

and in battersea 1901

Catherine Hogan 64 Ireland London Battersea

John Hogan 14 Ireland London Battersea Juvenile

right .back to irish born 1901 census these are the only Johns i can find in 1901 birth c1897


John Hogan 14 Ireland Liverpool C B Toxteth Park
Bottler



Daniel Hogan 3 Ireland Liverpool C B Toxteth Park Juvenile



John Hogan 14 Ireland London Battersea Juvenile


Jane Hogan 52 Ireland Liverpool C B Toxteth Park



Mary A Hogan 46 Ireland Liverpool C B Toxteth Park

William Hogan 56 Ireland Lanc Liverpool C B Toxteth Park General Dealer


Patrick Hogan 48 Ireland Liverpool C B Toxteth Park Coal Heaver



John Hogan 52 Ireland Liverpool C B Toxteth Park Shopkeeper

John Hogan 41 Ireland Liverpool C B Toxteth Park Coach Porter

Edward J Hogan 46 Ireland Liverpool C B Toxteth Park Coachman Domestic


Henry Hogan 38 Ireland Dublin Surrey Wimbledon South Wine Merchants


Catherine Hogan 24 Ireland Borough Of West Ham West Ham

Catherine Hogan 58 Ireland Wexford Liverpool Toxteth Park


John Hogan 40 Ireland Liverpool C B Toxteth Park Miner

John Hogan 14 Ireland Liverpool C B Toxteth Park Bottler


ellen Hogan 5 Ireland Liverpool C B Toxteth Park Juvenile

Thomas Hogan 11 Ireland Liverpool C B Toxteth Park Juvenile

Jane Hogan 36 Ireland Liverpool C B Toxteth Park

and this is the daniel hogans death in burnley that goes with the census from somerset

Deaths Mar 1934 (93%)
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Hogan Daniel 73 Burnley 8e 274

the only daniel Hogans i can find to do with coal are
1901 census

Daniel Hogan 29 Glam Pontlottyn Glamorganshire Gelligaer Coal Miner Hewer

Daniel Hogan 41 Essex Stratford Burnley Coal Miner

and this labourer which could tie in with the catherine hogan 68


Daniel Hogan 66 Ireland Lancaster General Labourer
Catherine Hogan 68 Ireland Lancaster Coniston

John Hogan 21 Wigan Lancs Lancashire Pemberton Bricklayer

Mary Hogan 41 Ireland Lancaster Pemberton

Elizth E Hogan 11 Lanc Wigan Lancaster Pemberton Juvenile

William Hogan 6 Lancs Pemberton Lancaster Pemberton Juvenile


Michael Hogan 45 Ireland Lancaster Pemberton Labourer Colliery Above Ground

Michael Hogan 15 Lanc Wigan Lancaster Pemberton Labourer At Colliery Above Ground


Thomas Hogan 8 Lancs Pemberton Lancaster Pemberton Juvenile


Thomas Hogan 28 Lancs Coniston Lancaster Pendleton Coachman Domestic


Edward Hogan 13 Lanc Wigan Lancaster Pemberton Labourer At Colliery Above Ground

Sarah A Hogan 33 Lancs Wigan Lancaster Pemberton