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Hi Lorraine,

Marriage certificate has entries George Wharram married Muriel Gilbert 8th March 1917 his rank Private D.C.O's Canadian Regiment has his father as George Wharram (deceased) profession of father Coal Miner .... I have checked out all the George Wharram's that could have been his father not many and they don't seem to tie in!!

then as I put previously my fathers birth certificate on the 5th June 1919 has his father down as Edwin Kershaw Wharram mother Muriel Wharram ... there are no Edwin Kershaw Wharram's !!

Then on my fathers marriage to my mother in 1941 he has named his father as George Wharram (deceased) profession Seaman Merchant Navy.

I really think they were trying to hide something as nothing ties to-gether ... weird to say in the first place Muriel was his step sister as ... Muriels mother had had Muriel out of marriage in 1897but then she had married an Ernest Ely Bailey in 1899 so he would have been her step father ... may be George was some how related to him but I don't know !!

It's all a real puzzle.

Lorraine, thank you very much. It was just by chance that I saw your post and I thought it was worth trying but didn't expect to get so much help and so quickly. Once again thank you.

June

june

looks like they had one daughter

1891 Census of Canada
about Alexander Gray
Name: Alexander Gray
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Age: 35
Birth Year: abt 1856
Birthplace: Scotland
Relation to Head of House: Head
Religion: presby ch
French Canadian: No
Father's Birth Place: Scotland
Mother's Birth Place: Scotland
Province: Ontario
District Number: 119
District: Toronto City
Subdistrict: St Patricks Ward
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Alexander Gray 35
Jessie Gray 28
Minnie Gray 6


minnie was born in scotland

1901 Census of Canada
about Alexander Gray
Name: Alexander Gray
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Age: 46
Birth Day & Month: 24 May
Birth Year: 1854
Birthplace: Scotland
Relation to Head of House: Head
Immigration Year: 1887
Racial or Tribal Origin: Scotch (Scotish)
Nationality: Canadian
Religion: Presbyterian
Occupation: Laundry Laborer
Province: Ontario
District: York (West/Ouest)
District Number: 131
Sub-District: Toronto (City/Cité) Ward/Quartier No 6
Sub-District Number: G-31
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Alexander Gray 46
Jessie M Gray 37
Minnie Gray 16





minnies marraige

Ontario, Canada Marriages, 1801-1926
about Minnie Gray
Name: Minnie Gray
Birth Place: Scotland
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1885
Father Name: Alexander Gray
Mother Name: Jessie
Spouse Name: William J. Scales
Spouse's Age: 21
Spouse Birth Place: Canada
Spouse Father Name: William Scales
Spouse Mother Name: Annie Frick
Marriage Date: 22 Apr 1904
Marriage Location: York
Marriage County: York
Archives of Ontario Microfilm: MS932_112

miinies children

Ontario, Canada Births, 1869-1911
about Gordon William Alexander Scales
Name: Gordon William Alexander Scales
Date of Birth: 5 Aug 1905
Gender: Male
Birth County: York
Father's Name: William James Scales
Mother's Name: Minnie Gray
Archives of Ontario Microfilm: MS929_176

Ontario, Canada Births, 1869-1911
about Arthur Clarence Scales
Name: Arthur Clarence Scales
Date of Birth: 16 Mar 1907
Gender: Male
Birth County: York
Father's Name: William James Scales
Mother's Name: Minnie Gray
Archives of Ontario Microfilm: MS929_190

Ontario, Canada Births, 1869-1911
about Norman Henry Scales
Name: Norman Henry Scales
Date of Birth: 25 Nov 1908
Gender: Male
Birth County: York
Father's Name: William James Scales
Mother's Name: Minnie Gray
Archives of Ontario Microfilm: MS929_29



Ontario, Canada Births, 1869-1911
about Minnie Elizabeth Scales
Name: Minnie Elizabeth Scales
Date of Birth: 11 Sep 1911
Gender: Female
Birth County: York
Father's Name: William James Scales
Mother's Name: Minnie Gray
Archives of Ontario Microfilm: MS929_217

1911 Census of Canada
about Wm Scales
Name: Wm Scales
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Age: 29
Birth Date: Oct 1881
Birthplace: Ontario
Relation to Head of House: Head
Tribal: Irish
Province: Ontario
District: York South
District Number: 138
Sub-District: Toronto
Sub-District Number: 43
Place of Habitation: 116 Dundee Ave
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Wm Scales 29
Minnie Scales 25
Gordon Scales 5
Clarence Scales 4
Norman Scales 2
Susan Mc Clutchel 47


william and children born ontario
susan is listed as roomer

rosalind

on georges marriage cert cert to muriel what is georges father name with fathers name it will be easier to find him in a census, it could be that george is not his 1st name and that is why you cant find his birth, my uncle percy used percy as his 1st name all his life but was actually registered as frederick.

Thanks for trying Lorraine,

I have all that information already I have his War Records and the passenger list of him going to Montreal on the Caronia was him going back to be de-mobbed out of the army though I don't see anything on him coming back to the UK after being de-mobbed to be with his wife Muriel whome he married in 1917 whilst fighting in France they had my father William born 5th June 1919 and my Uncle Raymond 1921 so he must have returned I have their birth certificates, I know he was a Seaman so that is right I have the same info re him arriving in New York on the Galileo that same ship returned to Hull in November 1924 and then he disappeared from their lives .. I do know everything about him from his time in the Canadian Army forwards apart from not having a death for him but I can't find him going to Canada for him to be there to be serving in the Forces there, so that is why I though just maybe he had lied about his birth place and Muriel was not his step sister I think he was courting her and put her down as next of kin. I am at a complete brick wall with him as far as who he was before 1916 as no birth regisitered for a George Wharram born 21/05/1895 and I have checked all the Wharrams out born around that time and none seem to be him. Even on my father William Edwin Kershaw Wharram birth certificate his fathers name has been entered as Edwin Kershaw Wharram with a father George father being a coal miner and then on my Fathers Marriage certificate he has put his father down as George Wharram seaman the same details as on my Uncle Raymond's birth certificate. The Edwin Kershaw Wharram does not exist so think it may have been an error I am totally foxed and think I will never solve who he really was. I know Muriel was with a Charles Little by the time she had her daughter in 1924 and tried to put her down as Mr Little daughter but the certificate was changed so maybe George was her father but had deserted her .. she was born April 1924 and he was on that ship Galileo in October 1924 going to New York ... they never saw him after that. Muriel could not marry Charles Little until 1948 and had by that ime two more daughters by Charles.
It was trying to find out about George that started me on my Family Tree and he is the one I just can't find lol

Thanks for trying much appreciated.

I wonder if you could help me. A Jessie Milne married to Alexander Gray, both from Scotland and married there, died in Toronto 1936/37 and her husband in Toronto 1904/05. She was born 1863 and him in 1854. Her parents were James Milne and Helen Anderson and his were William Gray and Mary Smith. Would there be any way of finding out if Jessie and Alexander had any children?

Nudge

Thanks Lorraine,

That helps sort a few bits out.

Viv

viv

found olive going to walter in 1913

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
about Olive Kate Attfield
Name: Olive Kate Attfield
Arrival Date: 30 Oct 1913
Birth Year: abt 1878
Birth Location: England
Birth Location Other: guildford
Age: 35 Years 6 Months
Gender: Female
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: English
Port of Departure: Southampton, England
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Majestic

according to a tree on ancestry walter died in england

they had two children
charles floyd who died in uk in 1977 - born florida 1914
donald walter born 1916 in florida died in war in 1943

UK, Army Roll of Honour, 1939-1945
about Donald Tagg
Name: Donald Tagg
Given Initials: D W
Rank: Gunner
Death Date: 30 Jul 1943
Number: 6094981
Birth Place: U.S.A
Residence: Surrey
Branch at Enlistment: Royal Artillery
Theatre of War: Malaya
Regiment at Death: Royal Artillery
Branch at Death: Royal Artillery

it also says that olive died in 1918 in florida

cant find death for her and it may be walter over after the 1910 census and came back before the 1920 if his wife had died

unfortuanlty i cant find any of the family travelling to or from usa

rosalind

cant find a birth in canada
found the attestation papers says he was born in hull yorkshire and gives next of kin as step sister muriel bailey 52 linneaus st hull

date of papers is august 1916

found a passenger list entry which could be him travelling with other troops to montreal


Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935
about George Wharram
Name: George Wharram
Date of Arrival: 5 Apr 1919
Vessel: Caronia
Search Ship Database: View the 'Caronia' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Roll: T-14795

army no 919849 rank I/C OR D/C
23RD RESERVES 199TH BATTALION
next of kin wife ( but doesnt give name)
going to montreal

what date did he marry and what is his wifes name?

think this is also the same man i noticed his attestation papers said he was a fireman which this one gives as his occupation

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
about George Wharram
Name: George Wharram
Arrival Date: 24 Oct 1924
Birth Year: abt 1895
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: English
Port of Departure: Hull Via Newcastle and Abirdeen
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Galileo

he is a member of crew

lou

sorry nothing for a marriage

rosalind

canadian birth records are a bit hit and miss not fully indexed like uk I will take a look for you though, do you have his fathers name on his marriage cert i may be able to find him on a canadian census if i cant find a marriage

Hi Lorriane,
I'm trying to find info on Walter Thomas Tagg, born 1864 in London, but emigrated to Ocala Florida around 1900-1910. I think he travelled with his wife Eliza. Do you have any details for him or his wife Eliza?
Also he had 2 children with another woman called Olive Attfield. Do you have any records of a marriage to her?
This would have been in Ocala too, I think.
Any info is great.

Many thanks
Viv

Hello Lorraine,

It's ages since I posted on the Boards, so hope I am going about this the right way!

I am still hunting for my grandfather George Wharram, have checked out every George Wharram that has come up but am now thinking as he enlisted in to the 199th Battalion Canadian Expeditionary Force of the Irsh Canadian Rangers in August 1916 aged 21 yrs and had previously been in the 55th Irish Canadian Rangers Quebec Montreal ... I now have the feeling that as I can't find a birth regisiterd for him here that maybe he was born in Canada ( though he says not on his documents).. is there any way that a birth for a George Wharram 21st May 1895 this is the date on his Attestation Papers can be searched for, as I know a lot of Wharrams went over to Quebec ... I have everything on him as from 1916 onwards re marriage children etc., just can't find his birth or his death recorded. Am at a brick wall and can only think to look in Canada Records

Hi Lorraine,

Many thanks for the info on my Baker / Cosimer Charles.

I don't suppose I could ask if you can look up their marriage for me please?

Re-cap

Mary Jane Baker to a Cosimer Charles between 1911 - 1920 possibly in Allegheny, Pittsburg Ward, Pennsylvania

Many thank once again for your tremendous help.

Regards, Lou

bernard

if you want to private message me your email i will pass it onto the tree owner on ancestry, or you could try a free trial with ancestry which will give you access to family trees on their .

Hello Lorraine, Thanks for all your help recently. You say that there is a family tree on Ancestry with some info about Asa. Can you tell me how I can access or purchase the family tree? I am not on Ancestry.
Thanks, Bernard

Lorraine,

RE:Price

Thanks for the death records, Harold V Price is the right one but the other two are not, I'll keep looking for them

I appreciate your help
regards
Val

lou

looks like mary remarried

1920 United States Federal Census
about Mary Charles
Name: Mary Charles
Home in 1920: Pittsburgh Ward 16, Allegheny, Pennsylvania
Age: 45
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Birthplace: England
Relation to Head of House: Wife
Spouse's name: Cosimer
Father's Birth Place: England
Mother's Birth Place: England
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Sex: Female
Year of Immigration: 1892
Able to read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Cosimer Charles 46
Mary Charles 45
Arthur Baker 24
Mine Baker 19
Edith Baker 16
Alice Baker 13
Ruth Baker 11


mine should read marie
cosmer? born poland occupation labourer in steel mill
arthurs occupation labourer

john

sorry cant find him on a passenger list nor a marriage for him in canada on the 1891 canadian this is the closest one for birth date but fathers name is wrong


1891 Census of Canada
about Thomas Walker
Name: Thomas Walker
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Age: 44
Birth Year: abt 1847
Birthplace: England
Relation to Head of House: Son
Religion: Methodist
French Canadian: No
Father's Birth Place: England
Mother's Birth Place: England
Province: Ontario
District Number: 72
District: Hamilton City
Subdistrict: Ward 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Walker 71
Thomas Walker 44


on 1901 cenus

1901 Census of Canada
about Thomas Walker
Name: Thomas Walker
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Widowed
Age: 55
Birth Day & Month: 21 Dec
Birth Year: 1845
Birthplace: England
Relation to Head of House: Head
Immigration Year: 1857
Racial or Tribal Origin: England (English)
Nationality: Canadian
Religion: Church Of England
Occupation: Farmer
Province: Ontario
District: Victoria (South/Sud)
District Number: 120
Sub-District: Verulam
Sub-District Number: G-4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Walker 55
Samer L Walker 31


but it says he emigrated in 1857 samer is his daughter born ontario