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uk arrivals -the last thread

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Colin

Colin Report 17 Jan 2010 02:38

Thanks for checking again.

I feel privileged that during this important time in your life you still took time out to try and help me..

The only reason I thought that, as a long shot, they might have married in the greater London area is that Tom might ,and I stress might, have gone to london when first retrenched from the railways when he was at at coolgardie.

Taking a broader perspective thats pretty unlikely unless I can find shipping information showing he went and returned to fremantle. That too is unlikely and will prove nothing BUT if there are passenger records showing tom and sarah on the same boat either there or back then we might have something. Still a pretty remote possibility.

Congrats to you and Mr Ginny. Your turn now get your Masters if you haven't already and then on to the Doctorate.

That was a consideration I had to make earlier in my life when I had a choice to do a Doctorate or a second Masters I now have 2 Masters - One in Phiulosophy in the subject of Training and Quality Assurance and the other in Science relating to Occupational Health and Safety but neither with a distinction.

I thought then that the broader Personnel based educational background would be better for my career.

Thats now history and my career was OK but the lack of a Doctorate still sometimes bugs me as an unfullfilled goal..

I hope you both celebrated well with family and friends what was an important occasion in your lives.

Well done.

PS - my goal here is still to try and find who is the father of Charles W1lliam Weeks, who was said to be the son of Walter Levi Walden, born in Nth Fremantle in 1911.

I don't think its either of them.

Regards ............colin

Penultimate update.
After many many years of searching I believe I have tracked down my true grandfather and his name is charles william lovell. For years I have been looking for the lovell with the birthdate 1885 who travelled to fremantle in 1907. I can't verify who that is unless it is a typo and the birth date should have read 1865.
This then correlates with Charles william lovell who was born in lewisham in 1865 from a family with merchant marine connections. Charles at an early age was on the england australia run and frequently travelled in and out of fremantle and albany giving him access to my grandmother. Charles family had strong connections with calcutta and the P@O line and it is very possible that the physical appearance of my father and aunt were caused by anglo indian hereditary influences.Other references mentioned earlier about Peckham and Wandsworth relate to the area Chas wm lovell was born and raisedi.e. lewisham. There are other compelling factors that give me a 99% assurance that I have finally tracked down the right man.
My sincere thanks go out to all who helped me but in particular to Ginny who was there at the start and at what will be very close to the end of my personal saga..
Bye for now ............colin

Gins

Gins Report 16 Jan 2010 14:11

Ive searched again for a marriage for Sarah and Weeks but nothing is showing up.

Unless Ive missed it I'd bet a months wages that they didnt marry. I'm not sure where we go from here? I think I've lost the will to live along with forgetting what the hell we are searching for lol

Yes I teach at The School of Education for my sins! But yesterday was very special as my husband recieved his 'Masters' with Dist...clever boy!

Ginny
x

Colin

Colin Report 16 Jan 2010 13:42

Lindsey,

Its great to see your still in touch.

What you call interesting information is what I call confusing information

Unless some records show up in greater london about the marriage of Thomas Weeks its a fair bet that it didn't happen, at least at that time.

Also if we place sarah in hospital in October 18 1911 and she produced charles william Walden later to be known as Weeks where is he on the deceased record.

The female infant recognised as having died before the birth of Madge Weeks was probably Sarah Jane Weeks born in Northam -there were no females shown as having died on her death certificate and without pushing the envelope too far the male stillborn in york located between their home adress and Northam was also probably hers. - I showed them on the last timeline I did.

If nothing else she was very prone to pregnancy.

Thats just one aspect that is confusing to me.

As an aside I hope your well.
Ive been watching your weather and notice that some of the sceptics doubt the global warming .

Well let me tell you that we have had 100 fahrenheit today and expected 41 centigrade thats 106 tomorrow and Monday.

We have also had our longest run of rainless days since our records started so it really depends on where you are in this big wonderful world of ours.

Stay well
...............colin

 Lindsey*

Lindsey* Report 16 Jan 2010 11:51

At last some really useful information, money well spent, now keep them safe so they don't get crumpled.
I don't think you can credit her with all those children,6 really is enough !
There is so much more on Aus certs compared to ours.

Colin

Colin Report 15 Jan 2010 07:54

Now for the Death certificate.
I hope I can't be prosecuted for relaying this info.
Similar format but I will streamline it a bit..
I -cert number 970 of 1949
2 -died on 7th may 1949
at Royal Perth Hospital
3 -name Sarah Weeks
home duties
4 -female
65 years of age.
5 -carcinoma of the colon
liver failure
duration of illness -not stated
last seen by Dr. K.M.Bellemore M.B.B.S.
on 6th May 1949.
6 -Fathers names - Unknown Wilson (We know him as James)
job was coal porter
and Mothers maiden name Mary Ann Dymack sic (actually Dymock)
7 -The info was supplied by Charles F Chandler
Who was the Funeral Directors Assistant
Located at 203 Guildford rd Maylands
8 -It was signed by the Registrar
on the 18th May 1949
at Perth.
9 -She was buried on 10th May 1949,
At the Anglican Cemetry Karrakatta
By E.L.Purslowe and Assoc.
10 - the anglican minister was BDO Coleman
11 -Who was born in London and had
Resided in this State for about 39 years.
12 -The Marriage was in Walworth England
About 25 years (earlier)
And she married Thomas Weeks
13 -There were 3 surviving children Madge 35 yrs.Thomas V 32 yrs and
Harry aged 25 years......and
There were 3 males deceased.( A little under-estimated even when cosidering just those in which he had an involvement.)




Thats the crux of it

Hope you find it worthwhile because I'm now exhausted.














Colin

Colin Report 15 Jan 2010 07:20

Hi Ginny
Are you graduating or are you a member of a faculty? In other words should I be congatulating you or commiserating with you.
Whate-ever; you are a hard task master. I am only a 2 fingered typist and the certificates are loaded with information.

Well no use in further complaining. Here we go - Madge Jane Weeks birth certi
1 - Registration no 2022
2- 1 born on 29th Nov 1914
2 born at 140 harold st north perth
3 -1 name madge Jane Weeks
2 present at reg. - no
4 -female
5 -Fathers name- Thomas Weeks
2 -Labourer
3 - 31 years of age
4 -birthplace Peckham England.
6 1 -married on 18th oct 1912
2 -at Peckham
3 -no previous issue living
4 -1 female previosly deceased.
7 1 - Mothers name - Sarah Wilson late Walden
2 - age 29 years
3 -birthplace Hammersmith Middlesex
8 1 -Informants mark attested to. Her name is Jane Walker.
2 -She is a friend.
3 -she resides at 140 harold st north perth.
9 1 and 2 The accouchuer and certified nurse is Catherine Mac Murray No. 465.
3 -other witnesses Fred and Jane Walker.
10 1 -registered on 3rd December 1914 at
2 - Perth.
11 Signature of District Registrar
12 Not applicable.

Thats enough for that one.








Gins

Gins Report 15 Jan 2010 06:32

No marriage listed for the Weeks/Walden/Wilson name!

So they never married.

Dont have any time at the moment as it's graduation day and Im due at the University in an hour or so. Will check back in later

Can you list the FULL details on the birth and death certs that you have for Madge and Sarah please.

Ginny
x

Colin

Colin Report 15 Jan 2010 06:15

An update for those interested.

I have Sarah Jane Weeks's death certificate and the birth certificate of Madge Jane Weeks.

Applying the blow torch to the certificates I am convinced that the info is only as good as the source that provides it. There are many incosisitencies so the easiest way is to set out another timeline.

1904 Walter levi Walden marries Sarah St Albans Fulham
1905 Walter Henry born
1906 walter died jun Q
1907 Alfred Jas born
1908 Alfred dies JunQ - James born
1909 James dies Sep Q
1909 Sarah said to have marr. Thomas Weeks in Walworth Eng. source Sarahs death certificate.
1910 Sarah said to have arrived in fremantle 1910 (source- death cert)
Best quess is she travelled on the Omrah arr late dec 1909.
1911 Sarah is in Fremantle as is bro' George and aunts and uncles
1911 Charles William Walden born. This is name on Birth certificate.
1912 Sarah said to marry Thomas Weeks in Peckham Eng. Source is Madge Jane Weeks Birth cert.
1912 A sarah Jane Weeks infant is born and dies at Northam. This is confirmed by Sara Jane the senior's death cert. information.
1913 A still born male named Weeks dies at York. Close to Northam
1914 Madge Jane Weeks is born 140 Harold St Nth Perth. Mothers maiden name Sarah Wilson late Walden. Fathers name Thomas Weeks of Peckham England..
1916 Sarah now shown on electoral rolls as Weeks.
1917 onwards the rest of the weeks family boys are shown on the earlier timeline and there is no doubt in my mind that they are the product of Thomas and Sarah.

So am I any closer to finding out who the father of Charles william Walden known as Weeks is?
I think so I have a number of irons still in the fire including as Lindsey suggested getting acquainted with a local Genealogist. I also have made contact with a descendant of the Dymock family - who were Sarahs aunts and uncles mentioned above.

It'sall grist for the mill.

Bye for now.

Colin

Colin Report 8 Jan 2010 02:38

Another small breakthrough

facts; The North fremantle hospital was called Hillcrest. It was in Harvest terrace and it was run by the salvation army. It was small maternity hospital, less than 18 beds, and was both a paying and a charitable institution.

A lot of the children born there were adopted out.

I have followed this up and the child welfare dept advise me its unlikely Chas was adopted as I have his birth certificate and in the case of adoption in this state those papers are locked away.

The good news is Chas may have been fostered out and if this is so they will be able to help with names dates etc.It will be interesting if Lovell appears as the foster family.

The bad news is their are only two people working in this area and the waiting list is 6 months after the application is lodged .

They are posting me an application form.

Another step forward, but again waiting waiting waiting....

Colin

Colin Report 7 Jan 2010 10:01

Hi ginny
The casting list took longer than I thought it would and at this time no startling revelations -still its early days and a few more people looking at it might produce something.

Thanks for clearing upthe Alfred James question. I don't have the luxury of the full info showing the classifications etc unless I go into perth to our state library. so its pretty much look at the basics and if it fits throw it in for discussion.

I'm glad he wasn't here because that would have been an unwanted complication. Its bad enough as it is.

I have just ordered Madge's birth certificate and thought I wouldl wait until we get that before buying more but I will get Sarah's death certificate. a.s.a. p.

Update. Both certificates have been ordered expect something within a fortnight
PS we will be in the soup kitchen line at the salvo's for the next fortnight.

Gins

Gins Report 7 Jan 2010 08:01

This looks like the same Fred you mention in 1916 ER. He has the same occ; Medical Practitioner? Is this the right person as the family appear to be far from 'middle' class in earlier days?

Are you sure Walter had a brother called Fred?

Australian Electoral Rolls, 1903-1954
about Frederick James Walden & Ethel May
Name: Frederick James Walden
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1936
State: Western Australia
District: Forrest
Subdistrict: Albany
Address; Scotsdale Rd Denmark


Australian Electoral Rolls, 1903-1954
about Frederick James Walden
Name: Frederick James Walden
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1937
State: Western Australia
District: Forrest
Subdistrict: Albany


Australian Electoral Rolls, 1903-1954
about Frederick James Walden
Name: Frederick James Walden
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1943
State: Western Australia
District: Forrest
Subdistrict: Albany

Same address and occupation on all. Also wife details are the same

He is missing from 1916 to 1936?

Ginny

Gins

Gins Report 7 Jan 2010 07:52

Colin

Your time line looks like a casting list.....joke!!! Well done, it's a 'mission' to do!

So, what about the death certificate for Sarah - details at the bottom of page 15 which Lindsey found for you?

I know Oz certificates give a lot more detail than UK ones and if this was my research, I would be gagging to get that certificate......it’s probably the most important piece of information found so far

Are you going to send for it?

Ginny
X

Colin

Colin Report 7 Jan 2010 02:02

Very interesting... when trawling the ER it shows Frederick James Walden, in Swan in 1910.
Could this be Walters brotherr? If so Sarah must have known he was here.
Swan is east of perth but he moves or at least is registered in the fremantle electorate south of pertrh for the 1916 election
.Remember that registration can take place any time before the election.
Fremantle is the same area that George and Sarah are registered and it is where Sarah gives birth to Chas Wm ???
Fred does not seem to be here after that entry.
Did he return to england to marry dorothy Webb in croydon in Jun Q 1915?
This raises some implications but does not yet explain the Lovell connection
Ginny has cleared this up, different person entirely.,son of a farmer in the albany area.

Colin

Colin Report 7 Jan 2010 00:22

It looks as though Sarah jane wilson is boarding with george wilson in fremantle 1n 1910 shown on ER. Still don't know who married george
I wonder if the immigration people provide the electoral roll application as part of the immigration procedure?. If so it would explain the quick registration.

Colin

Colin Report 5 Jan 2010 14:55

Tracey - no need to worry about francis edwin and annie weeks they are a different family.

Colin

Colin Report 5 Jan 2010 14:49

I've tried to follow the advice given on time lines and kept to only known facts and only then added some suppositions for ruminating upon..I will update as more info comes to

1902 - Thomas (Tom) Weeks joined railway as an apprentice repairer (Fettler) He was employed in gang 27 at bronti.

1905 Tom resigns. Remains in coolgardie electorate for a short time. Is he fossicking for gold?.When does he move?

1907 Charles William Lovell leaves London on-board the Omrah. He is 22 yrs old said to be born about 1885 actual date is Sept Q 1886 Presumed to be born in south stoneham Hamps. see 2c 47.

1910 A sarah walden departs london on the 7th jan on the oriontes. Mrs Walden is shown as single but it is thought that this is to do with her passenger status and not her marriage status. She is shown as carrying out home duties.estimated date of arrival would be about mid February.

1910 cont. Sarahs eldest brother George and his wife (Ihave no details on this lady) leave england on board the Orviette which left london on 28th oct estimated arrival fremantle early to mid
dec 1910. George settles in fremantle eventually dyng there. If there is no evidence of a wife might sarah have travelled with him and then stayed in fremantle. This would link to Harvest rd hospital nth fremantle birth? I need to find georges wife to clear this up.Sarah could still have moved in with them before birth of chas wm walden/weeks

1910 cont. Another Sarah Walden . The omrah leaves london for australia on 11th november. Given the travel time it would have been in fremantle around christmas 1910 . There was a sidney walden on board but given recent findings this is no longer relevant.

1910 cont. The Osterley returns ex brisbane to london through fremantle where a Walter Walden born abt 1885 boards. Problem is he is shown as a Joiner. He exits at Plymouth on abt 1st april 1910.

1911 On 18th October charles william walden is born at the Harvest Terrace Hospital North Fremantle. If this is true Charles will be the first long term surviving child of walter walden.

1911 cont. birth cert states sarah was living at 98 chelmsford rd north perth. cannot confirm this but if she was why go to a hospital in fremantle?.

1913 On10th december Tom weeks is re-employed as a casual repairer at highbury. This is a small community located on the main line between perth and Albany a major port on the south coast.It's located 34 kilometres north of wagin.

1913 cont. A walter r birch is the resident shown at 98 chelmesford rd.

1914 17th Jan -Tom weeks is retrenched from highbury


1914 cont. Madge Jane Weeks is born in Perth 29 nov . Why Perth and not Williams? There is a strong resemblance between charles and madge almost definitely brother and sister

1914 cont. A Leslie R Lovell is born at williams.Is this of any importance? No marriage to be found.

1915 Tom weeks re employed on 8th nov at highbury.

1916 charles william lovell leaves williams for the eastern goldfields to try his luck as a prospector.He is shown as living at the Royal Mail hotel Main st Meekatharra. This location is now many miles away from highbury and williams. Incidentally its only about 32 K's between Highbury and Williams.

1916cont Tom transfers to Darkan 65 kilometres as the crow flies but moe like 85 k's on the roads.
Sarah is shown as household duties at highbury.Could she be now living with Tom Weeks with madge.
The railway transfer was probaly to a camp where single quarters would be available for Tom.
She is also shwn as working as a dressmaker in wagin 34 K's south of highbury. Perhaps she is independent? How can she be shown as domestic duties and working at wagin in same year?

1917 Tom is back at highbury but enlists on the 16th may with the Joint Commonwealth Unit of Workers for Great Britain and leaves immediately.
Sarah gives birth to the first of 5 sons to tom weeks. Francis is
born at the Williams District Hospital.

1919 Tom returns from UK and recommences with the railway at highbury on 24th feb.

1920 Alfred weeks born williams.

1921 family has moved to Coolgardie on the goldfields with the railway and Arthur is born.

1921 cont. A rhoda lovell is born in the West Kimberleys- may have no significance.

1923 Harry weeks is also born at Coolgardie.

1925 to 1936 chas lovell is mining at Gwalia.very close to Leonora.

1925cont Sarah, tom and family move to outer perth metro area - smith st glen forest.They stay at that address until at least 1936.

1928 Family have returned temporarily to south west of our state and tom Jnr is born at Narrogin.

1937 chas lovell now mining at wiluna.

1938 Weeks family transfer to perth metro area - return to glen forrest.

1943 On 10th june tom transfers to the perth gardening gang.

1947 on 29th july he turns 65 gets his gold watch and retires to see out his days at Maylands.











WayneTracey

WayneTracey Report 4 Jan 2010 22:18

In 1925 they ARE listed together, Swan District WA

Weeks Sarah & Weeks Thomas, "The Hoffman" Greenmount, Home Duties (her) Repairer (him).

There is also an Annie Weeks, Carmel, Housekeeper (a seperate address)

On the second edition in 1925 Thomas & Sarah have moved to Smith Street, Glen Forrest. There is also the addition along with Annie Weeks (same details) of....

Weeks, Francis Edwin, Oakover Estate, Herne Hill, Vigneron.

In 1936 Sarah & Thomas are still @ Smith Street. Swan District WA

In 1943 they are still @ Smith Street, Northam District WA

Tracey x

WayneTracey

WayneTracey Report 4 Jan 2010 22:14

In 1916 the ER for Williams WA states.

Weeks Sarah, Highbury, Household Duties.

and underneath her but at a seperate address,

Weeks Thomas, Darkan, Railway Employee.

So in 1916 they were NOT living together...

Very interestingly....

Sarah is listed twice in 1916..... she's also listed at Highbury as Sarah Walden !!!!

So she was most def not married in 1916!

Tracey x

WayneTracey

WayneTracey Report 4 Jan 2010 22:08

Colin looking forward to your timeline...

Remember to add all births, where you see them lying, and also his service dates, the date of birth and Sarah's passage dates....

You need to add anything relevant, once you have them listed we can maybe pick holes further?

If this Weeks guy was Madge's father maybe we can find them on the ER??

Tracey x

Gins

Gins Report 4 Jan 2010 18:27

Nice one Lindsey

x