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uk arrivals -the last thread

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

 Lindsey*

Lindsey* Report 27 Nov 2009 03:21

Not too suprising, The illness is active for 7/8 years during which time the children don't usually survive, that would account for 1904 -11 , then for some reason , it becomes dormant and the next children are OK.

The Army chose to use mercury although the Silver Bullet had been discovered as a cure by then , then there are 2 possibilities, he would either have had a normal lifespan, or had the later stages which include insanity from brain damage. That leads on to him not dying in Fulham, but possibly
Barnet or Croydon where the asylum/hospitals were.

Colin

Colin Report 27 Nov 2009 16:41

Lindsey
Thanks once again for the very interesting information you provide . Your obviously well read and its a delight to talk with you I followed up the mercury treatment and found they used compounds which included arsenic and bismuth. You would need to ensure the dose was accurate because the remedy might have killed a few.
I am pleased to say I checked the BMD at both locations you gave me, for the worst case scenario, and there was no record of death. I have looked up both hospitals for patient lists and no results and the British Archives are too convuluted for me to find my way through to the actual data they say they have. I will continue to look for his death because it must be recorded somewhere. If I find it before I get the result from the marriage cert. which has been ordered, I will let you know. That and the marriage information will just about close off this interesting journey into Walters life.

WayneTracey

WayneTracey Report 28 Nov 2009 08:59

I do think it's very relevant to mention that Walter lied on his second enlistments records!

Have you ever served in any branch of his majesty's force's : NO

Are you married: NO

This was 10 Nov 1914 !

He was placed on the Syphilis register while stationed at Rochester Row, 5 Feb 1915.

Discharged from hospital 24 Feb 1915.


Tracey x

 Lindsey*

Lindsey* Report 28 Nov 2009 11:16

For what its worth I think that it is Walter senior who remarries after Ellen dies and this is not Walter junior.

I'm not yet convinced that the Wokingham births are connected.
unless Walter senior fathers a couple more children with his new wife ?

Walter Junior is beginning to sound like a Walter Mitty !

Colin

Colin Report 29 Nov 2009 08:02

tracey
Hi thanks for the additional army info.
It prompted me to chase up what I could to see if any doors would open to you know who.I found that rochester row was updared in a915 to handle huge influx of military patients. It also had a Military Jail wing.It was also one of the hospitals of choice for the grenadier guards.Now for some questions
Was he in the second battalion of the guards known as 'the models' because they recruited widely in the fulham chelsea area in 1914.
Also is the 2 week period you mention in Feb1915 the same period that Lindsey spoke about earlier? Or is it a recurrence of the syphilis.
Finally do you have a discharge date (I shouldn't put that in the same context as Syphilis) for the army and if so was it honourable or dishonourable? Hope you don't mind me asking.
Regards...........Colin

Colin

Colin Report 29 Nov 2009 08:36

Lindsey
Your sending me to an early grave, relatively speaking (in both senses of the word)
If your right about the marriage being Walt the senior then I'll be devastated. I never thought of that and you may well be right -damn.
What then? - all thats left is to find a death certicate for Walter junior but thats easier said than done.
I have been told by paypal they are processing the request so the marriage details will be known within a fortnight. colin

WayneTracey

WayneTracey Report 29 Nov 2009 08:59

Colin

Send me your email addy by PM and i shall send you both sets of army records.... you can then do your own digging lol.

It means you also have these vital records in your own possession!


Tracey x

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 29 Nov 2009 09:56

Colin

Nothing to add but had to say I chuckled at the addition to your title "still going strong"!!

It will be very much back to the drawing board if the Walter marriage is Walter senior. It might be a case of waiting until ancestry uodate and you can search for deaths without trawling through quater by quarter and year by year.

We are waiting with bated breath for the marriage certificate.

Colin

Colin Report 29 Nov 2009 11:02

Lindsey
One of the initials.
Going back to basics ; what is the closest thing to a boys heart.
his mother but that was ellen strong. But she was only 15 when walter was born so the grandmother would have had a big influence she was about 45 yrs older than Walter. Her name was Ann Franklin but within the family they called her by her second name, Edey; "EW" Edey Walden.
One down two to go.

WayneTracey

WayneTracey Report 29 Nov 2009 11:10

Colin

Want to PM me your email addy!!

LOL....i didn't copy it, it's my age you know!


Tracey x

 Lindsey*

Lindsey* Report 29 Nov 2009 12:41

Hi. well as it happens , I didn't spend all night trawling the death registers without making a few jottings, there's a possible other Fulham death for a Walter, but once again jumping to no conclusions as

Jan 1955

aged 72
Fulham 5c 631,
don't want to spend all your pocket money !

What concerns me is that a death cert may not tell you anything, or give a positive ID. It might give a relative as next of kin, but I'm not taking the blame if its wrong ! After all there is no reason why he might have died in Fuiham.

Now why would you be devastated ? These are all your relatives anyway !
You can't do research without certificates.

It would be interesting to find out, what Walter did to be in prison .and as for his ejection from the army , they could simply have realised his previous enrolment , or depending on Kings regulations what he did ?
I read something the other day made me laugh, Officers were allowed to catch diseases from lavatory seats, but the lower ranks brought it upon themselves !

EW might be mother, curious that he should have ships as tatooes , without a naval connection, perhaps for his 2 voyages !

The plot thickens !




Colin

Colin Report 29 Nov 2009 13:55

Tracey
Its done it went to Wayne hope thats all right.
..........colin

WayneTracey

WayneTracey Report 29 Nov 2009 13:55

Yeah it's the same account!!


Tracey x

Colin

Colin Report 29 Nov 2009 15:13

Lindsey
I hope I'm not getting paranoid about the money issue which seems to concern you, but it was the last thing on my mind when I made the comment about "being devastated". I was referring to all of the assumptions made by me and the logic and intuition used to make judgements about who fits where within the family tree. As I said earlier I didn't give walt the senior any thought and you could be right about him but I still think it must be walt the junior 1884.Its the judgenent aspect that worries me. It may be that your genealogical experience has taught you to be more reserved and cautious than I could ever be.This is a real strength of yours and you certainly taught me a valuable lesson about methodology when we looked at the Annie Cox children in wokingham.
I am sure we have different temperaments and I am merely pointing out that you completely misunderstood the reasoning behind my comment.
Well its good to get that off my chest. By the way a genealogist who could easily have been you once said "misers are no fun to live with but they sure make good ancestors".
Now to the younger Walter; Hooray, it seems to me you have found him. Once again I appreciate your sage advice about being careful with assumptions but my gut feel is you have got him.I'll follow that lead
Moving on to walt in prison in 1901. I cant find his record but his future bro in law one of the wilson clan who was in jail at the same time was done for breaking and entering and stealing an alarm clock. I suspect Walter who was years younger may have been the lookout or the one sent inside to open the door.
Finally "EW" was the grandmother not his mum.
Well, what a day, more progress as we get closer to the final chapter. Thanks everone.

Colin

Colin Report 1 Dec 2009 14:39

Its truly amazing that after all this time the very first question on this thread has been answered in part. Sally has kindly confirmed that she has located Mrs Sarah Walden departing London 7th Jan 1910 destination Fremantle on the oriontes.
The time frame give or take a couple of weeks is what we thought it would be. Interestingly she is recorded as as Mrs but declares herself as single. At the same time she is classifed as a housewife. Thats curious.
Sally made no mention of the infant son Sidney b. late 1909 who is believed to have also travelled and died en-route to Fremantle.
No mention of Walter - still its a little more progress.
Thanks a millionfold sally.

Colin

Colin Report 1 Dec 2009 23:37

Lindsey, Your message to me to curb my impetuousity shows up again. I really believed that Sally had the right information yet she was able to find what I now know to be the correct information.
Sally located a second entry which gave the date of travel ex london to fremantle on the 11th Nov 1910.
She (Sarah) is shown as married and she is travelling with her son Sidney.
The ship was from the Orient line named "Omrah" Unfortunately this doesn't fit any of the initials..
There are 3 numerical references on the info sheet which I dont understand . They are 8382 - 4419 - 534

If Walter has not previously departed and he was not on board this ship then the window of opportunity for him to travel to fremantle has to be in the following couple of weeks because Charles Walden is born in Perth on the 18th oct 1911

Colin

Colin Report 2 Dec 2009 00:54

There are a Joseph and Dora Walden on the same ship.
Cousins?
L's teachings suggest to err on the side of caution so there may be no connection at all.
There was a Joseph Harry W born Wellingbro' in Dec Q 1874 - 3b 159 and Dora W born same location in Dec 1905. see 3b 145 Possible (not Probable) father and daughter.No other Dora's recorded as being born to Waldens at that location. This info is merely incidental as it does not appear to be important at this time to fit into the jigsaw puzzle were close to finishing.

Colin

Colin Report 5 Dec 2009 09:41

A cryptic puzzle "little said sooner mended"

 Lindsey*

Lindsey* Report 5 Dec 2009 14:26

Well Colin, I hope you now see the folly of doing research without buying certificates.

Alarm bells first rang when I asked you where you got the story from, and you didn't answer, but started yet another new thread instead.
Janey was absolutely right to point out that you were compounding the issue by having 4 threads , which is not conducive to joined-up thought.
You gave her a snippy answer.


You began with knowing nothing more than your father being a Walden, then found his mother,s marriage, added a few dead children and your own version of events , and told us all Walter junior had remarried back in England and this was what had actually happened.

You probably wont be able to delete Walter junior's 2nd fictitious wife from your tree without writing to GR , and until you buy the 3 childrens records, I recommend that you remove them too. Then correct your notes dealing with the FACTS only.
Annie Cox from Wandsworth ? Who she, another wild guess and completely wrong.

So for the benefit of everyone who has spent much time on Walter, as I suspected the 1916 marriage was of Walter Levi Walden{ senior } to Annie Amelia Cox aged 30 , daughter of William George Cox police Constable, {you can find them together on the 1901 census.]
The lucky old devil got himself a much younger woman and that makes her Walter junior,s step-mother, nothing more.

I think you need to read Jonesy,s notes on Tips board, re always checking the original images and accuracy , in fact all her tips are relevant and well worth visiting. Then go back over your tree and verify all your entries.
Lastly ,as for your name being Walden, I don't think so, If your father was brought up as Weeks, married as Weeks and had you registered as Weeks, then Weeks it is.

Colin

Colin Report 5 Dec 2009 15:41

Lindsey Nice to have you back - well sort of. Gee that was both barrels fired simultaneously.Having picked myself up off the floor I can say yes I do see the folly of not getting cert's and census material but I also add respectfully, about the money issue, dont judge others too quickly without walking a few miles in their shoes.
I am not going to say much about Janey- such a pretty name- because it is with others in GR to sort out.
Let me tell you I received unsolicitored support for my reply.
Returning to the real topic given the information you have gleaned you must be right about the marriage.I've been advised the marriage certificate is in the post so that will be the clincher one way or the other.
In relation to changing and or deleting the names in my tree I think this can be done without the need to involve GR.
Finally I am not sure why you say I am not a Walden when I have my fathers birth certificate to prove that I am. If the point is that I have carried the weeks name for my entire life then surely
all that is required is a change of name.
Oh well lots of unwanted drama to finalise what has been a really enjoyable experience for me. I've learned a lot and thought that I had developed friendships along the way.
When I get the certificate I will still report on it and say my goodbyes at that time.
Once again thanks for all your help and advice. ..............colin