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Derbyshire Parish Records

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Derek

Derek Report 4 Jul 2016 22:22

Hello Anne..sorry that you are having trouble. I don't understand your problem with page 162.except that is where i found aal my previous work had been deleted.and having caused a rumpus with GR..it was found and re-instated...........so why bother with 162?? just answer this message as normal............

Derek.

Derek

Derek Report 11 Jun 2016 11:02

Hello again Anne......one or two things are becoming a bit clearer:-

ANN RIDGARD..daughter of John Rifgard and Amey.Ann/Anna nee Beddow/Bedders..etc........

appears to have been a really naughty girl........giving birth to FWR in 1859 illegitimately..who appears to have been taken away from her quite quickly to live..as a RIDGARD...with his Gran............
.Ann Ridgard then gave birth to WILLIAM..in 1861..again illegitimately..but in this case..in 1863 she married the father JOHN KIDGER..and kept the child as a KIDGER
and as we know..there were other Kidger children born in wedlock later...

The thing is that the Birth date given to JOHN KIDGER on the1871 Census is WRONG!!..he was born in Loughborough in 1841...making him old enough to be father of both WILLIAM KIDGER..and FWR..........
WE know that FWR and William Kidger were brother through Ann Ridgard/Kidger.....so there appears a very good reason that John Kidger was the father of both FWR and William................more so because the two were both born in Kirk Langley (Belper RD)..and neither were ever baptised!!!!..FWR was taken from Ann..William Kidger was not......

This is complicated a little by the fact that there appear to be two John Kidgers of leicestershire married to ANN.........but only one of them is Ann of Kirk Langley..i.e ANN RIDGARD............
FWR was abandoned to his Gran............so he did the same to TOM!!
What do you think

AnneIsabella

AnneIsabella Report 9 Jun 2016 18:12

Hi Derek,

AW!

So we still don't know who FWR's Dad was and if its not on the birth certificate then we may never know :-(

I had a feeling it wasn't William as FWR's birth was registered by an Ann Ridgard - named on the form as his mother. And there was no other Ann Ridgard about at that time apart from his sister (and I feel sure - even though my family are weird - he wouldn't have married his sister :-S )

It seems highly likely that Ann married John Kidger as FWR's whole family were called Kidger on the 1901 Census.

I think I worked out from Census info that Elizabeth was born circa 1835 and Ann circa 1839.

Tell you what though Derek - I am a bit disappointed in FWR.
When he married Harriet Bailey she already had an illegitimate son named Tom, but he was left behind with his Granny and Grandad Bailey in Overseal rather than going to live with his Mum and FWR in Derby. You would think he would have had some sympathy for the lad and welcomed him into the family.

Oh well, its all very interesting as usual! Many thanks for helping me to find out about them all.

Anne x :-)

Derek

Derek Report 9 Jun 2016 12:41

AnneIsabella............just to get our attention!!....I have now received the Birth certificate for Frederick william.......which will cause one or two waves !!

He was born 25.09.1859..birth registered 08.10.1859..at Kirk Langley Derbyshire..which of course is in the R.D. of Belper.......fine.

His father was NOT William...there is no known father on the cert.....we have been chasing shadows in that direction.....

He was born the illegitimate son of ANN RIDGARD......a single girl..who was the same Ann as in the three children of John and Amy...William, Elizabeth and Ann.... So William Ridgard was not the father of FWR..but his Uncle......

We know they were all together in 1841..we know that in 1851 FWR is with his Grandmother Amey..............and in 1851 and 1861 ANN RIDGARD.. mother of DWR is a servant girl in two different households....a SINGLE girl ......as far as i can tell she never married........unless it was her that married John Kidger in 1853 at Shardlow.

I mentioned earlier my doubts about the spelling of Amy Braddow............she married JOHN RIDGARD at Kirk Langley 28.10.1830..name given Amey Bradder........which actually, according to the West Hallam records..is BRADDOW.......
However, it is interesting to not that the first born child of John and Amey...was WILLIAM, baptised 15.07.1831..BUT the other two ELIZABETH and ANN were baptised together 05.01.1840........which does not make them twins, nor does it tell us when they were born, which could have been anytime between 1832 and 1840..........they are baptised as children of John and ANNIE Ridgard............which is entirely understandable given the quality of the writing at that time.
..and shows a certain instability in the marriage of John and Amey/Annie, given that he became so elusive later.....................maybe it was his job!

SO..!!! ..we go on!

Derek.

Derek

Derek Report 3 Jun 2016 13:48

Hello Brian..so glad you were able to find your way onto this Thread........here is just a brief answer for the moment just to let you know That I am on the case.....just for starters;-

MAUD REBECCA ISAAC...1889/90...daughter of CHARLES ISAAC ..a Railway man from Lincolnshire and LUCY A from Witham Lincs.......
Charles was the son of LUKE ISAAC and SARAH..nee BAILEY (from Rutland)..her father was John Bailey ( and probably Susannah)..and Luke's father was William Isaac..
I have further details but am in the process of tidying them up and seeing what else I can find..........watch this space!!
I have also seen your Tree..thank you.

Derek

Brian

Brian Report 3 Jun 2016 05:38

Hello Derek,
Thank you for your reply to me regarding Maud Rebecca Isaac married to William Edward Bostock. I believe W.E. was born 23 Dec 1882 and Maud born Oct 24 1889.
In 1921 they were living at 49 Chaucer Street. In 1945 W. E. was living at 17 Park Drive, Ilkeston.
My problem is I am not sure who William's or Maud's parents were.

If you have any information on either of these so that I may move on would be gratefully received.

I thank you in advance. What you are doing for others is a great service and I am sure everyone is so grateful for your efforts as I am.
Regards,
Brian.

Derek

Derek Report 30 May 2016 21:45

Hello Brian..have replied to you on PM......please try to find your way back to this Thread..then I can correspond with you in an open Forum..in which other people are often only too pleased to add their help.

Derek

AnneIsabella

AnneIsabella Report 28 May 2016 15:27

Hi Derek,
Yes please do get FWR's birth certificate for me - thank you.
And yes his Grandad John seems very elusive on the Census'.
On the 1851 Census I think he is living with his son William in Sterscote but they are down as RIDGET.
On the 1861 and 1871 William (son) is living in Winshill with his wife Harriet and 2 sons. But on the 1861 his next door neighbour is a John Ridgard born in Kirk Langley (but who is completely the wrong age to be William's Father).
Wonder why John was never at home with Amelia? She had to take in washing to survive.
:-( x

PS Amelia was the daughter of Edward Braddow (1775 Stanley Village) and Charlotte Bancroft (I still have no idea where she hails from) they married in West Hallam 14 May 1801. You have helped me with those 2 before :-D

Derek

Derek Report 28 May 2016 10:05

Hi Anne..have been looking at the Ridgard stuff you sent to me...........which looks pretty solid.
You wiil no doubt be aware of the plethora of Ridgards in the Kirk Langley area..i have the PR's....and I see no reason why the WILLIAM RIDGARD baptised 15.07.1831 at Kirk Laangley son of John and AMY......should not be the father of FWR......particularly as a Marriage in the Burton on Trent Registration District in 1853 between William Ridgard b 1831 Kirk Langley and HARRIETT PALMER seem to fit very well.
Which does not necessarily make Harriett Palmer the mother of FWR....but could well be.............Which actually does make the Birth certificate for FWR quite crucial..particularly as his Baptism is very elusive......if you want it I will get it for you...
The spelling of AMY BRADDOW is dubious....and may even be Braddon on her marriage to JOHN RIDGARD at Kirk Langley 28.10.1830......
FWR was of course born 1859 in Belper District..which could have been Kirk Langley.
Amy was from West Hallam........Marriage 28.10,1830 Anny Bradden..!!
She appears on all Censuses upto 1881, when she is a widow..all the others she is "Married", but only on the 1841 does John Ridgard appear, with theri three children...........

more later Derek

AnneIsabella

AnneIsabella Report 1 May 2016 10:32

Hi Dea,

Many thanks for the info :-)

OK so we now have a 'Ridge' in the mix! :-S

Bear with me 'cause I am getting confused as usual.

I have a John Ridgard (b1808 Kirk Langley) marrying an Amy (Amelia) Braddow (b1804 West Hallam).

Frederick William Ridgard (FWR) is on the 1861 census as living with his Granny Amy in Kirk Langley.

John and Amy Ridgard had 3 children:
William Ridgard b1831
Elizabeth Ridgard b1835
Ann Ridgard b1839

As FWR's father is mentioned on his marriage info as a William Ridgard I thought that this was John and Amelia's son? But does it now look like William's sister Ann is FWR's mother? If so, who was FWR's father?

Anne x

Dea

Dea Report 1 May 2016 09:55

Hi Anne,

You mention above:

"However, this Ann couldn't be FWR's mother as on the 1891 Census she was 39 and FWR was 28."

If you look at ALL the other census's for Ann you will see that she was actually born c1841 NOT c1852 and asw William was born c 1859,(not c 1863), she would have been around 18 at the time of his birth so she could well have been his mother !

On 1861 she is living away as a servant and William is being cared for by her mother Amy.

Dea x

P.S. - If you are checking through census you may not find this one so I will post it:

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
27, Bold Lane, St Werburgh, Derby, Derbyshire, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Ridge Head Married Male 41 1840 Furniture Broker Leicestershire, England
Transcription
Ann Ridge Wife Married Female 40 1841 Furniture Broker Langley Common, Derbyshire, England
Transcription
William Ridge Son Single Male 22 1859 Plumber & Gas Fitter Langley Common, Derbyshire, England
NB - image probably 'does' say KIDGER.....

Dea x

AnneIsabella

AnneIsabella Report 29 Apr 2016 17:46

I have these confusing census entries -

1871 census – Frederick William Ridgard (FWR) was living with John and Ann Kidger (nee Ridgard and born in Kirk Langley) in St Mary's Gate, Derby. He is now called William Kidger and is down as their son.

1891 census – FWR is still living with John and Ann Kidger in Bold Lane. But now he is classed as their lodger and is also down as William Ridgard.

I know that FWR's father is called William Ridgard (as he was at FWR's wedding to Harriet Bailey), but I have never been able to find out exactly who his mother was? On FWR's birth registry (1859 Belper) it says that the informant was his Mother - Ann Ridgard. But who is she? William Ridgard only has a marriage for a Harriet not an Ann. And John Kidger married an Ann Ridgard who was a widow (You found this out for me Derek). However, this Ann couldn't be FWR's mother as on the 1891 Census she was 39 and FWR was 28.

These Ridgards are just a can of worms :-S



AnneIsabella

AnneIsabella Report 29 Apr 2016 17:18

At last! I have been trying to get onto this thread all day and for some reason it wouldn't let me. So sorry I am tardy but I have been poorly.

Thanks for the extra info Chris :-)

Thanks so much for the census info Dea. I have a little more about this - see below :-)

Oh heck Derek those blinkin' Adams look as going to be a pain right until the bitter end. Still, it would be nice to tie up those loose ends.

I will keep on looking for those missing Ridgards.

Thank you :-D xx

Derek

Derek Report 27 Apr 2016 22:26

Yep..you're dead right..I have those docs.........Birth Reg as you say..but two separate notifications..one at Swarkestone.. one at Twyford..for his Baptism ..both on 10.08.1884.and same film number.and therein lies the problem..
Thomas Adams JFM 1884............Derby......7b 553

Sarah Adams...single...daughter of John Adams married Thomas Cowlishaw 05.08.1871............are we really to believe that this is not the right date for the five successive baptisms??????
1901..Thomas and Sarah Cowlishaw have Thomas Cowlishaw..and thomas Adams (born 1884) in the same household...........

Yet the parents of Thomas Cowlishaw Adams are..Henry and Sarah..which leads us to a massive question..\Sarah WHO???? and only the Birth Certificate can tell us..even a visit to Matlock won't do..because the Baptism record will not give mother's maiden name.
Thus..a Birth Certificate is the only way of getting Sarah, maiden name........

Dea

Dea Report 27 Apr 2016 19:40

You say he was born JFM 1884 but isn't this his birth reg??

Births Jun 1883
ADAMS Thomas Cowlishaw Burton 6b 387

Dea x

Derek

Derek Report 27 Apr 2016 18:25

Hi Anne..the Birth Certificate confirms what we already know,and is a bit of a damp squib in its lack of detail. I was hoping for dates and baptism details and perhaps details of Thomas' father.......
However..briefly:_

DORIS VERA ADAMS born 02.11.1913..Willington.....to Thomas Cowlishaw Adams and Elizabeth Ann Adams formerly Ford...
Informant T. C.Adams a Coal Drayman, living at Willington
Birth Registered 27.10.1913.

It doesn't tell me where she was baptised.......

That's it..which is fine..but I always like to get the full picture once I have got interested, and although I have a whole host of paperwork for most of the Threads of the family there are a coupe of things that bug me and which i am determined to crack...

One is the siblings of Doris Vera, and just how many there were................which can find out at Matlock....

But what really bugs me to death!!,....is the parenthood of Thomas Cowlishaw Adams.I know all about his baptism..about his marriage.. Army Service..death in Aden..and even that the Army paid his wife £25,6s 3d after his death!!
But the parents Henry and Sarah are a nightmare..I have tracked back several examples..including a marriage of Sarah Adams to Thomas Cowlishaw. and the marriage of Sarah Haynes to Sarah Adams..plus two more Sarah and Henry's.
Where in hell's name does the Cowlishaw come from????
Let's take to following..Henry Adams married SaraHaynes 04.11.1873....and there followed five children..three of whom are Adams..and two are Cowlishaw Adams.......there could be reason if they were the first two..or the last two......but they are number three Ann C16.03.1879..and number five Thomas Cowlishaw Adams 10.08.1884...............Incidentally he was born JFM 1884, BUT not Baptised till August.
Every last bit of your problem is solved except the actual Cowlishaw connection.

Bugger it i' going to get the Birth Certificate!!

Derek.

Dea

Dea Report 27 Apr 2016 16:30

Not getting anything more on this one I am afraid :-(

Will let you know if I find anything.

Dea x

Derek

Derek Report 27 Apr 2016 14:50

I'm not actually looking yet at the Ridgards..but from Dea's contribution of the 1901 and 1911..it is obvious that they are the same family..the K and the R are florid and very similar..and don't forget the people who were recording all these htings were not Brain surgeons!!!...more later

Dea

Dea Report 27 Apr 2016 12:56


1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
4, Larges Street Ambrose Terrace, Derby, Derbyshire, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Frederick Ridgard Head Married Male 38 1863 House Painter Langley, Derbyshire, England
Transcription
Harriett Ridgard Wife Married Female 38 1863 - Overseal, Derbyshire, England
Transcription
Bertha Ridgard Daughter Single Female 8 1893 - Derby, Derbyshire, England
Transcription
Garnam Ridgard Son Single Male 2 1899 - Derby, Derbyshire, England
Transcription
John Ridgard Son Single Male 1 1900 - Derby, Derbyshire, England
Transcription
Isabel Ridgard Daughter Single Female 1 1900 - Derby, Derbyshire, England



In 1911 they appear to be using the name KIDGER ?? (It does say that on image !)


1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
50 Brook St Derby, Derby, Derbyshire, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place
William Kidger Head Married Male Painter House 46 1865 Derby Langley
Transcription
Harriet Kidger Wife Married Female - 46 1865 Derbyshire Ovessell
Transcription
Bertha Kidger Daughter Single Female General Servant Domestic 19 1892 Derby
Transcription
Gamam Kidger Son - Male School 12 1899 Derby
Transcription
John Kidger Son - Male School 11 1900 Derby
Transcription
Isabel Kidger Daughter - Female School 11 1900 Derby


Dea x

AnneIsabella

AnneIsabella Report 27 Apr 2016 12:20

Hi Derek and Dea,

I am wondering if anyone has any idea how I can find some further information about John Neville Ridgard (aka Jack)

His parents were Frederick William Ridgard b 1859 (Kirk Langley) and Harriet Bailey b 1862 (Overseal). He had 6 brothers and sisters (Tom Bailey, Berth Anne Ridgard (R), Jessie R, Blanche Ada R, William Frederick Garnum R, Isabel Ennis R).

I know a lot about this branch of my family (some of it with your previous assistance Derek!) but I just don't know where to look for this rather specific information.

John Neville Ridgard married Dorothea Williams in August of 1926. Sometime after this he told the family he was leaving Dorothea and going to Canada. The only correspondence they had from him was a letter and a photo of him on board the ship supposedly bound for Canada in late 1926. In the 1960s his niece tried very hard to find him, she asked everyone who knew him if they had any ideas where he could be and even got the Red Cross involved. No-one could find him or even a death certificate for him. He had seemingly disappeared.

I did ask about him on GR a few years ago but I can't seem to find the thread. However, someone was kind enough to help me and they found that he hadn't emigrated at all, neither had he left Dorothea! This caused great astonishment to the remaining members of the family - to say they were stunned is an understatement! It turned out that they had only moved to the other side of Derby and they had had 5 children together – all boys (Robert, b1927 d1927; Frederick, b1930, George J, b1933, Albert, b1934, and Derek b1936).

My question is - what has happened to them all as I can't find death certificates for any of them?

Anne x