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Derbyshire Parish Records

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


Derek Report 5 May 2015 21:22

I now have as complete record for William Henry Bramley (and his daughter Polly!!).
He was clealry a prisoner in 1911, and i suspect that his absence from the 1891 Census means that he was also a prisoner...........with wife mary at home looking after the children...
The 1911 Census for wife Mary crooks shows a further three children after 1901..including POLLY!!
I suspect that William was in fact always Willam suggested by the name of one of his sons............

The crooks family appear to have probably been CROOKES......and that William's father was ROBERT.not Thomas...........

All the best.


Olive Jean

Olive Jean Report 5 May 2015 21:21

Hi Derek
Sorry to,message you again
I have been reading about the Marriage of William Bramley and Polly Crooks

1891ilkeston 25th December

William Brambley Father Thomas Bramley
Polly Crooks. Father Rufus Crooks

(Mary is also know as Polly !)

Bye for now

Olive Jean

Olive Jean Report 5 May 2015 21:08

Hi Derek
Thankyou so much for replying to me
I am working of what Genes Reunited Comminity have given me
I have just sent for a a marriage for
Walter Farnath -Polly Bramley 1922 Basford
This Polly Bramley is the Daughter of William Bramley
Walter Farnath is the son of James Albert Farnath

James Albert Farnath married Mary E Skidmore @ 1903 Nottingham

Which I have looked for today in Nottingham Centeral Library
No luck there ???

Yes they say that William Bramley was. Prisoner on 1911 Census
They also say that William Bramley married Mary Crooks William father is Thomas and Mary is Rufus 1891 Ilkeston Deryshire

Hope this makes sence


Derek Report 5 May 2015 19:32

Hello Jean......sorry not to have answered your PM, but i had already started searching for I'm glad you managed to find your way onto this Thread.

This particular task is not easy, there are loads of William Bramley's in both Derbyshire and Notts in the time frame of his proposed baptism.
There are, for instance. at least two WB's in Hucknall Torkard at the same of whom married a Hannah........couls he have married twice??

MARY CROOKS seems to have come from Darley Abbey daughter of Rufus and Eliza..but there is an alleged baptism three years earlier at Horsley of the same Mary by the same parents.......

I'm still trying to pin down WILLIAM BRAMLEY, but none of them appear to have a father Thomas.............but I'll get there eventually.
The ONLY 1891 marriage in December 1891 (anywhere in the country!).between an male BRAMLEY and a female at Basford December 1891 between William Bramley and POLLY is the only records of Mary Crooks calling herself Polly............although such things are not unheard of, I believe Polly to be a contraction of Margaret rather than Mary along with Molly.....
MARY CROOKS is on the 1881 Census with her father Rufus, but no mother..and on the 1891 ah is with her mother, but not her Father!!.....Rufus Crooks died in 1891.(This Census is from Horsley Woodhouse!!)
1901 has WILLIAM BRAMLEY of Hucknall and MARY his wife, from Darley Abbey
with three chidren..Eliza ..John..Henry...born Ilkeston/Basford/and Heanor respectively.
WILLIAM BRAMLEY died January 1911, which is why he is not on the 1911 Census.............

I should tell you, if you don't arrady know, that BASFORD NOTTINGHAM causes lot of confusion. I actually live in Basford Nottingham......not to be confused with the BASFORD REGISTRATION DISTRICT, which from 1837 reached out to, and included Ilkeston Derbys and the surrounding area......
Remember registrations of BMD's after 1837 were recorded at Register offices, and place of birth, or baptism..could have been anywhere in that district.

I'll get back to you when I've improved my findings.

EDIT..have just found on the 1911, William Bramley married. Colliery Worker..a PRISONER living, or incarcerated at a Police Station under the charge of Charles A this the same man?? who died later the same year???..probably not!!


Olive Jean

Olive Jean Report 3 May 2015 10:22

Hi Derek
I wonder if you could help me please I have been given your Webb Site through Genes Community i understand that you have Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire

I have been searching William Bramley born about 1869 Hucknall Nottinghamshire
But I am not having much luck with the Census ok 1911 1901 census

I am looking for his Marriage to Mary Crooks born 1870 Derbyshire

Marriage William Bramley - Mary Crooks 1891. Derbyshire
Mary's father is called Rufus Crooks and I think William Father is called Thomas Bramley
Olive Jean


lilliesnan Report 25 Apr 2015 23:04

Thank you Derek. Your help is always appreciated.
:-) :-) :-)


littlelegs Report 24 Apr 2015 11:38

hi derek

thank you the info on my thread about william wells son of thomas wells of kent if you can find any info on thomas that would be wonderful

thomas wells married esther freeman
esthers parents were william and sarah
for life of me cannot find a narriage for william and sarah any ideas please

all the best take care


Derek Report 23 Apr 2015 12:13

Susan,.you're very welcome..never be afraid to ask......Incidentally the death of Hannah Greatorex at Osmaston was Osamaston- by- Ashbourne, very close to Shirley of course.



lilliesnan Report 22 Apr 2015 18:57

Wow….. Derek thank you so much.
So the little devils were over the border in Staffordshire, no wonder I couldn’t find them. This boundary between Staffordshire and Derbyshire always gets me. :-S

In a couple of days you managed to find what I have been seeking for months or even years. I just don’t know how you do it. Thought I would give it a go on my own as don’t want to monopolize all your time...... Just shows my grey cells are not as efficient as yours. :-( :-|

I will digest the info in a while and get back if I have any questions.

Thank you again Derek.... your time is really appreciated.

Think you deserve an extra large Scotch tonight :-D



Derek Report 22 Apr 2015 17:18

Hello again can ignore the Duffield connection mentioned in my last message...
If you can read very slowly (!) and be patient, you might just get your head around what might be one of my best results ever......

The trick was, as i surmised, finding Mary and Charlotte Greatorex, because, neither of them, along with William belonged in Shirley......and they WERE all siblings....

Trick number two..1841 which not only was William not from Shirley, he was not from Derbyshire.

Trick number the Shirley baptisms there are two further entries of births that could be siblings of William Charlotte and Mary.....George and Sarah..children of William and Barbara.........
SO.....look for William Charlotte and Mary..out of County..possibly with parents William and Barbara...........out of County probably being Staffordshire, because that's where HANNAH THACKER was from.

BINGO in spades:- (there are variations in spelling even from child to child..ignore!)
PR's of Colton Staffs:

Marriage: William Greatrex to Barbara Birch 04.11.1773.

Baptisms of children born to William and Barbara at Colton:-

30.10.1774 WILLIAM
04.10.1778 Charlotte
01.06.1780 Mary
31.07.1785 Thomas
08.03.1788 Ann

William and Barbara then quite clearly moved to Shirley and had Sarah 21.05.1791 and George 10.10.1793.

The 1841 has William and Hannah Greatore living next door to Thurston Dale and his wife Mary nee Greatorex.

Just to sew up every possible room for doubt.check the following:-

CHARLOTTE DALE buried Shirley 12.11.1834 aged 56.......therefore born 1778
MARY DALE buried Shirley 24.01.1843 aged 61 therefore born 1782

Robert Dale born 1775..husband of Charlotte buried 14.02.1814 aged 66
Thurston Dale born 1782 husband of Mary buried 12.01.1860 aged 78

They were two of several children of William Dale of Chelmorton.

I am therefore quite happy to submit this as an answer to your query !!

If you see any potential holes in it..please let me know.

(There was another William Greatorex born in Staffs 1774..but he died 1782..and another William Greatorex born in Bradbourn, who married Alice Doxey..both to be safely ignored)
Now for another large Scotch!!



Derek Report 22 Apr 2015 12:49

Hello Susan....I offer you the following, simply on the basis of geographical proximity.
We have proved connections in both Shirley and Kirk Langley...
The marriage record of WILLIAM GREATOREX to Hannah Thacker 06.02.1811 clearly state he is "not a Parishioner" you suggested.
But then,,neither was Hannah, at least not originally, cos she came from Abbots Bromley in Staffs.........

William and Hannah had five children baptised at Shirley..and two other children James and Ann baptised elsewhere..probably nearer to Derby......

William Greatorex is buried at Shirley..buried 18.07.1843 aged 69..which gives his birth as 1773/1774...........
Hannah Greatorex was also buried at Shirley, 18.06.1863 aged 83.........but she actually died at Osmaston...........whether that was Osmaston-by-Derby..or Osmaston-by-Ashbourne I haven't yet worked out.......

All records pertaining to William or to his children show him to be a Bricklayer.

I have some marriages of some of their children:-
SARAH...George Fearn 04.09.1856
Joseph ..Elizabether Sellers 21.07.1840
Incidentally..these two were witnesses to William's marriage to Hannah

There are two other earlier Greatorex marriages that have my toes tingling...

Charlotte Greatorex married Robert Dale 26.09.1805 (witness Mary Greatorex
Mary Greatorex married Thurston Dale the...are thesec two sisters of William ???? and is the witness Mary Greatorex their mother????

Returning to geograhical proximity I offer the possibility of WILLIAM GREATOREX being baptised at Duffield 21.11.1773 son of William and Mary (nee Sanders).

I'm off now to try to find Charlotte and Mary..and if they have the same parents, then I have proved your William.........don't hold you breath!!!



lilliesnan Report 20 Apr 2015 19:43

Hi Derek.......At last time to get back to you, this may soon become as clear as mud but firstly, thank you for taking the time to find the relevant info for me.

My request about the MURFIN family was to confirm something I had seen on the 1841 census although it’s not really a line I am too interested in. I have been trying to think outside the box to trace a very elusive male.

The census shows William Greatroex, Sarah Greatorex, Ann Murfin and a couple of others. I know my George Fearn married Sarah Greatorex and his brother Thomas Fearn married Harriet Mufin. Clear so far, I hope so, because I will now confuse you. Guaranteed !!

You have helped me in the past confirming details of SARAH GREATOREX birth (1825 in Shirley) her marriage and the naughtiness that ensued beforehand with her husband to be. I was thinking that maybe I could determine where the family came from if it was the same Murfin/Greatorex folks, I WAS hoping there was a connection …………Now you probably think I have completely lost the plot!!

Anyway………I could now do with some fresh eyes on this, in more than one respect (been sitting in front of this screen for hours on end) and would appreciate your expert help. I have hit a brickwall with Sarahs father WILLIAM GREATOREX (Greatrex/Greatrix) and its driving me mad. He was born about 1770, as far as I am aware and married Hannah Thacker in 1811. His daughter was born in Shirley but I don’t think he originates from there……..Any little snippets of info you could come up with would be wonderful and VERY VERY much appreciated.

:-S :-S


Carole Report 19 Apr 2015 11:49

Hi Derek,

That's ok, have done it myself before now.
I have visited Macclesfield library in the past and looked for the family but was never able to find Mary after the original baptism record. Nothing in the deaths either. I'll keep looking though.
Never give up. I looked for my husband's grandfather for about 10 years and then out of the blue there he was, along with an extra family.



Derek Report 18 Apr 2015 21:20

Carole..sorry..I misled you by making an assumption that I should not....which is not like me!!

In 1901 and 1911 MARGARET was boarding with a lady I assumed to be her sister MARY.............I was wrong..

The Mary in question was a Mary Anna Earle who married John Thompstone in 1859 and thye both had margraet as a Boarder in 1901......In 1911 the WIDOWED Mary Thompstone is again living with Margaret the assumption was a reasonable one to make..but it was wrong.. I'm sorry...............which of course begs the question of what DID happen to Mary??


Carole Report 18 Apr 2015 16:21

Hi again Derek

In one of the posts you mentioned that Mary 1836 married Earl Thompstone. Do you remember where or when ?
I have tracked the other siblings but can't seem to find them.



Carole Report 18 Apr 2015 15:43

Hi Derek

Never mind, but thank you for doing the research for me especially taking the trip into Matlock. I knew it would be hard to confirm.
I nearly said that I bet John's father is also John as that name has travelled down through each generation but at least now they add a middle name to make it a little easier.
The deaf and dumb affliction must have been genetic but it hasn't reappeared on my stem, might try looking at some of the others.
Thanks again.



Derek Report 16 Apr 2015 23:53

Hello again Carole..according to different Census years..all three daughters are shown as deaf and dumb from birth...........but 1911 is DEFINITELY Margaret and Mary............Elizabeth is shown in an earlier so afflicted....theough he son John Thomas appears to be ok........

EDIT ..Friday evening..have today been to Matlock and searched the Chapel en le Frith Baptisms, and have not found John Leigh.........I looked 1800-1810..all of which are in the "old"format..that is, with Baptism and burials listed together in chronological order........and to be honest, most of them are so hard to read that its painful.
There MAY be an entry 02.02.1805.. that MAY be John Leigh son of John and Mary....but I wouldn't put my house on it...........and there are no other LEIGHS in the Baptism register between 1795 and 1810.which is odd.....because it is unikely he is the only Leigh.............sorry ...



Derek Report 16 Apr 2015 23:41

Hello Susan..thanks for rousing me from my boredom!!.......

Firstly..ANNE MURFIN baptised 11.06.1820 Kirk Langley is a different family..the daughter of Samuel Murfin and hannah nee Watson who were married at Brassington 11.11.1816..............their other children were:-

Elizabeth baptised 18.10.1818..buried 16.07.1838 aged 20
Samuel baptised 20.11.1827 ..buried 24.05.1846 aged 19

SAMUEL MURFIN married ANN BAULD 09.10.1827..and had the following children (at Kirk Langley)....
Sarah 03.02.1828
William 28.03.1830..married Eliza Kirkland 09.11.1854..died 27.01.1902
Hannah 14.10.1832
Thomas 29.03.1835
Ann 11.03.1838
HARRIET 09.05.1841....married THOMAS FEARN 19.10.1870 at Brailsford.
Rachel 03.03.1844
Samuel 18.04.1847....

THOMAS FEARN born Yeldersley 1835 son of Thomas and Frances..

The 1871 census is interesting..showing Thomas and Harriet (who married 1870) with their son Herbert ( born 1865 at Brailsford!!)..naughty peeps!!......and also living with them is her brother SAMUEL 1847..unmarried, but receiving an income as an Invalid...........

Anything else you need, or anything needs clarifying..just ask.



Carole Report 16 Apr 2015 19:15

Hi Derek,

Thanks so much for doing this.

John Thomas is my gr grandfather. I have Elizabeth (snr) death certificate from 1855 and John was still alive then so at least it narrows it down a bit.
I knew about the daughters being deaf and dumb as my Dad had remembered that bit of info. but he had thought it was Elizabeth not Margaret.

Anyway thanks again.


lilliesnan Report 16 Apr 2015 19:12

Hi Derek

Hope all is well with you. Been quiet on your boards for a while so thought I would give you a gentle wake up and something to keep your little grey cells busy.

Am trying to confirm the parents and siblings of Harriet Murfin born about 1840 possibly in Kirk Langley, believe Harriet married Thomas Fearn at Kirk Langley in about 1870. Parents maybe Samuel Murfin and Ann (Unknown)

Whilst looking for Harriet could you also check for the parents of Ann Murfin born about 1820. Could be sisters although big age gap, but who knows.

Anything you could find would be wonderful.

Susan :-)