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Hi Derek

Sorry for the delay in replying, been feeling a bit under the weather myself. Thanks for the Hickinbottom info. Hubby's side is certainly proving to be somewhat mysterious, so I'm going to lay off it for a while.

Going back to my own side, I wonder if you could confirm which of these marriages is right. Found them on IGI.


groom's name: John Huntsworth
groom's birth date:
groom's birthplace:
groom's age:
bride's name: Elizabeth Thompson
bride's birth date:
bride's birthplace:
bride's age:
marriage date: 15 Nov 1801
marriage place: Sommersall Herbert, Derbyshire, England
groom's father's name:
groom's mother's name:
bride's father's name:
bride's mother's name:
groom's race:
groom's marital status:
groom's previous wife's name:
bride's race:
bride's marital status:
bride's previous husband's name:
indexing project (batch) number: M01902-7
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1785840
reference number: it 22

groom's name: John Huntsworth
groom's birth date:
groom's birthplace:
groom's age:
bride's name: Elizabeth Thompson
bride's birth date:
bride's birthplace:
bride's age:
marriage date: 14 Dec 1801
marriage place: Shirley,Derby,England
groom's father's name:
groom's mother's name:
bride's father's name:
bride's mother's name:
groom's race:
groom's marital status:
groom's previous wife's name:
bride's race:
bride's marital status:
bride's previous husband's name:
indexing project (batch) number: M05894-2
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 428937
reference number:

Thanks Derek..........I also suspect that John Cashmore was most probably the father of Leah Ward born 1816..........I agree it seems unlikely that he would marry and raise another mans child unless he was a real good guy.......and we know the answer to that !! Perhaps he was in prison and couldn’t marry sooner.......he seems to have been in trouble several times before he left for VDL.

I have the marriage cert for Nathaniel Clamp and Leah but I believe there is an error on the cert. It gives Nathaniel's father as unknown and Leah's as John Smith. I really think they are the wrong way round.... My reason for thinking there is a mistake is below......

Nathaniels parentage is also vague. His mother was Susanna Clamp (1790 Grendon)...........she had a daughter out of wedlock named Kitty who was born 1806 and died 1810. She later gave birth to another child, Nathaniel in 1809.....court document cites Joseph Bird as the father. Sadly this Nathaniel also died in 1810.........
Susanna went on to have twins Susanna and Nathaniel in 1813........one twin Susanna died in 1813 and Nathaniel survived and went on to marry Leah in 1841 he died aged 76. Sadly his mother Susanna (1790) also died in 1813.........

Anyway..........the Warwickshire baptism for twins Nathaniel and Susanna in 1813 shows them as “base born” and the potential fathers name has been crossed out on the records. Deleted name is John Smith.

Like you I suspect that John would have stayed in Australia/Tasmania when he was pardoned and as you suggest raised another family but can find no concrete information to confirm this. There may have been a marriage to a Margaret McTavish sometime around 1852 but again have no concrete evidence to support this..........I did wonder if he changed his name to avoid his past catching up with him......if thats the case I may never find out what happened to him. :-S

Thank you for your continued help it is really appreciated

Susan :-)

Susan.....answering another question..........LEAH WARD baptised 30.06.1816 Smisby Leics...daughter of Elizabeth Ward.....must surely be the daughter also of John Cashmore..else why would he have married her so soon after?..it's not something the average guy wouod do!!

LEAH WARD married Nathaniel Clamp 1841 Ashby de la zouch District..but her daughter Leah Ward was born 1839. In this case you can surmise that nathaniel was the father.....but the gap is much longer so you'll never know for sure because nowhere is the father's name recorded.........unless its on the 1841 Marriage certificate......which in this case i doubt..There first child Elijah was born 1843..........By the way there is a John Cashmore died Oakthorpe 1847 aged 51........but my correspondent in Australia thinks he stayed there when pardoned 1846 and raised another family.......which is actually more likely.......

Derek.

Hi Derek, Please could try To find the Marriage of a Mary Shooter to Robert Henry Nevins 1884 Q1 Mansfield.
I'm wondering if its a bigamist marriage. So I would like to find out her father name etc.
This couple can't be found on the 1891 census.
Turn up on 1901 in Micklefield Yorkshire.

Further to my message yesterday........

Was unsure of the names of John and Elizabeth's children. I have taken my information from the 1841 census where Elizabeth is head of the household.........I expect due to husband John already in prison far far away......

The convict record for John at the time of his transportation in 1836 shows him married with 7 children BUT a later addition shows him married with 8 children, & wife Elizabeth in Oakthorpe........ Perhaps she was expecting number 8 when he left ??? Poor woman can only imagine what her life was like

I am pretty sure the 1841 census is for the correct family due to other occupants..... in the household is Leah (Lear) Ward, Elizabeths daughter born 1816 and her daughter also Leah but named as Ann on the census.
Other children Elizabeth aged 12, Luke aged 8, Sarah aged 4, Maria aged 1 and William aged 11 all Cashmore.

I have today received some information from somebody else researching the same family and she has suggested other children ..........an UNNAMED son 1817, MARY baptised 4 Sept 1818 at Ashby, HANNAH 23 June 1822 at Measham, ELIJAH we already know about, ELIZABETH 1828, no details of baptism but married 1853 Donisthorpe, MARY born 1831 no baptism details, and WILLIAM and LUKE who we already know about.

If you have the time and means would really appreciate it if you could check them out.....saying that I think we can safely assume that MARIA was not the child of Elizabeth and John

Derek, really appreciate the time and trouble you are taking to help..........this is a rotton un............and you thought our Gregsons were bad !!!!!! :-(

Susan

Good evening Derek........

Thank you for your message..........Will get back to you tomorrow

Regards
Susan

..so did I after i posted my message..............keep 'em coming!

Derek.

Blimey Derek my glasses must need cleaning. Thank you for your time. I feel there will be more questions on this family but I will look extra carefully first :-D :-D


Edit ... For reference I found them on 1891 under Bell not Ball

Dear Gooner..you're not looking hard enough!!.........he appears all the way through to, and including 1911..when he is widowed and a Grocery Stock keeper.

In April Quarter 1873..he married SARAH LEE in Liverpool..and spent the rest of his life in Toxteth Park Liverpool............the only Census I cannot find him on between 1851 and 1911 is 1891..but he'll be around somewhere!!.....

Derek.

Evening Derek, hoping you are well. Please don't faint when I mention Measham :-D :-D. This time the place not the dreaded family.

Can you find anything else about Walter Oscar Ball. All I have on him is born 1849 Measham to John Woodham Ball and Elizabeth Blockley. Got him on 1851/61/71 census then nothing

Many thanks

Hi. derek
I have now discovered that Austin Cupit's father could be Augustine/Austin Cupit who was marriad to Sarah Wright, in Shiland 1784. They also had a son Austin Cupit born 1791, wchich could fit.
I wondered if you have any way of proving this.
I don't know of any connection with Sutton in Ashfield.
Regards
Arthur

Hello Susan......some of your facts may be a little suspect.........I can find no Birth for Elizabeth or for Maria..daugters of Elizabeth Cashmore/Ward...........the thre children of the marriage between Elizabeth Ward and John Cashmore were as follows-
ELIJAH baptised 19.02.1826........William and Luke both baptised 09.02.1834...all at Stretton en-le-field Leicestershire.....

I suspect that William and Luke might have been born earlier and their baptism together as possible teenagers might have something to do with the impending conviction of their father......

I think ELI CASHMORE 1846 is one of several children of Elijah (1826) and Sarah.....for whom there is a complete census record from 1851 through to 1901........I cannot at this moment find an Eli for 1843/1844..but then there is always going to be some confusion between ELI and ELIJAH...

onwards and upwards!!

Derek.

Thank you so much Derek....least I know that bit is correct..........don't suppose there are names of either fathers ?

Looking forward to any snippets of info you can find.

Thanks for looking

Susan :-D

Derek

Thank you very much indeed!


We're doing well ................. the winter is warmer and wetter than usual here. I'm getting sick of seeing the rain, and no sun.


I will ask my contact if she wishes some photographs.


Thank you, once again



sylvia

OK Susan....will have to do this piece by piece..........one snippet to start with.I can confirm the marriage at Smisby 17.09.1816 of a JOHN CASHMORE to an ELIZABETH WARD........

more as I find it..

Derek.

Hello Sylvia...nice to hear from you again..........hope you're keeping well.........

I have found the Civil registration of the Marriage..but not the Parish record.I suspect it might not have been a church wedding.

However....ROBERT GOODWIN born Kenton Suffollk 1871..son of Robert and lucy Goodwin..both of Kenton.........Robert senior was a Dyer, and clearly brought his family to Nottingham for work

FlORENCE WALKER was born in Lenton Nottingham 1874 daughter of James and Ruth Walker..both of Nottingham

Interestingly I actually live within five minutes drive of all the relevant places this family lived and worked,and indeed drove past one of the houses this morning.......
1871 and 1881..Robert snr and Lucy are living in Gamble's yard with their children..which in 1881 includes ROBERT junior Gambles Yard has gone

1891..same family at 9 Mandalay Street Basford......the house still exists

1901 Robert and Florence have three children and are living at 1 Eastwood street Basford..with three children..and his parents are living at number 23...

1911.Robert and florence have four children and are living literally round the corner from Eastwood Street on the main road...173 Cinderhill Road..they appear to have all worked at a very local Dyeworks..the buidlings of which still stand..as do the three last addresses....Eastwood St..Mandalay street and Cinderhill road...........they all "Google" quite easily with the little orange man....
They are actually all on the Ancestry Censuses...............
Hope this helps..I can even photograph the houses if your friend needs them.....

Derek.

Hi Derek

How are you???


I wondered if your records might extend to Basford on the Derbyshire/Nottinghamshire border????

An Australian contact has asked if I might be able to help her find more details on the following marriage before she buys the certificate

Robert Goodwin to Florence Walker, 1892, June qtr. Basford, in the areas of Nottingham/Derbyshire. England.

I can't see anything on familysearch, or on ancestry.



take care, m'dear




sylvia

Hello Derek

At last found some time to get back to you......hope this one doesn’t cause you a headache !!

ELIZABETH WARD born about 1793 / 1796 at Tutbury, Staffordshire/Derbyshire........parents....UNKNOWN
She went on to marry JOHN CASHMORE (born about 1796 maybe Ashby?) in Smisby 17 Sept 1816, this date has not been confirmed. Children of marriage (I think........?) Elizabeth Cashmore 1829, William Cashmore 1830 , Luke Cashmore 1833 and Maria Cashmore 1837..... Maybe more I don’t know.
EIizabeths husband JOHN CASHMORE was transported to VDL in 1836 for stealing an anvil. I don’t know if John ever returned to UK after he was pardoned in 1846...as I have been unable to find a death apart from a 3 week old child by the same name in 1847....

Quite simples so far.......ok......this is where it gets a bit messy.......

ELIZABETH WARD, above, had a daughter......... LEAH WARD born 1816 in Smisby.....Father possibly JOHN CASHMORE or JOHN SMITH ?

LEAH WARD (1816) married Nathanial Clamp at Donnisthorpe in 1841, she died in 1903. They went on to have 2 children I am aware of.....Elizabeth 1842 and Elijah 1843. ........However.........oh no I hear you sigh...........

LEAH born 1816 also had a child out of wedlock....... also named LEAH WARD but born 1835, possibly in Oakthorpe.... Father was JOSEPH WHITE according to her wedding cert to JOHN SANDERS NEWBOROUGH at Austrey in 1855. JOHN SANDERS NEWBOROUGH parentage is also complicated but not really relevant except to say he alternated between using Sanders and Newborough as his surname.........thats it, you have guessed the rest.. lol

Am looking at the Cashmore family ........There are two children listed on the 1851 census, Maria Cashmore born 1849 maybe Ashby? and Eli Cashmore born about 1843/4 Oakthorpe...I am curious as to who’s children they are as they are very close in age to Elizabeth’s (1793) children and wonder if they should be listed as daughter and son instead of grandchildren.........a comment has been added to the census on a******y indicating that the children are those of Mary Cashmore and father unknown and the oldest was born at Ashby workhouse.

Can you confirm that MARY was the daughter of ELIZABETH WARD AND JOHN CASHMORE?
Any additional siblings would be even better. Not sure where children were born - maybe Smisby or Oakthorpe but its a guess.

Any additional information you could dig up with regard to the CASHMORE’S especially JOHN and his parentage would be terrific............BUT don't worry too much if you cant help as I know your records may not include the relevant parishes.

Thanks for taking the trouble to look anyway. Sorry for giving you a bad’un.

Susan :-S :-S

Thanks for trying anyhow Derek :-)

Thanks Derek......

give me a couple of days to work through the stuff I need help with. I don't want to send you off on a wild goose chase looking for stuff I may already know.

I know some of the family are out of your area and I have been trying to confirm Warwickshire baptisms and marriages on ancestry and by purchasing certs.

This one is a mess but fascinating !

Will get back very soon.
Thanks
Susan :-D