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Aunty's New GREEN Thread

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 20 Dec 2009 09:51

GREEN/BASSENGER/HAGGIS/BUDD. Information moved from another thread so it can be linked to new research.

THIS IS DUPLICATED MATERIAL

I have Hannah Elizabeth Haggis, born about 1821 Poplar Middlesex UK. Father Thomas Haggis (occupation Mariner), no mother.

Sources are 1841, 1851 and 1881 England Census.

I have her marriage on 24 Apr 1837 to Edward Green in St George Middlesex. Father Thomas Haggis, mariner. Marriages and Banns states she is a minor. If she were born in 1821 and married in 1837 she would have been 16.

So I went looking for her birth. I'm never satisfied.

In the London England Births and baptisms 1813-1906 I have a birth for Anna Eliza Haggis 24 Apr 1818. Father Thomas Haggis, mother Eliza. The date of birth shows on the entry for the baptism on 11 May 1818 at St Dunstan and All Saints, Tower Hamlets.

If It is her birth (1818) this would make her 19 when she married.

There is also another child Eliza Haggis. Born to Thomas and Elizabeth Haggis. Baptism record shows date of birth 14 Apr 1822 and baptism 14 Jul 1822. St Anne Limehouse. Is this her sister. Edited date of birth and baptism and puts dunces hat on head.

Regarding the Hannah/Anna names. Hannah Elizabeth Green (Anna /Eliza Green) had a daughter Hannah Maria Green who became Anna Maria Green.

As I said, I need a fresh pair of eyes!!!

AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 20 Dec 2009 09:56

Hi Mel, Absolutely nothing. I need to draw several pieces of research together so I can compare notes. Thank you for your query.

AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 20 Dec 2009 10:01

Duplicated information - Thanks Steve. AS

SteviesSparklingDangleyBaubles 16th December 2009 12:39 Request review


Hi AuntySherlock. This appears to be Hannah in the 1871 census;

Name: Hannah E Green
Age: 53
Estimated birth year: abt 1818
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Poplar, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: St Anne Limehouse
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Stepney
Sub-registration district: Limehouse
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Household schedule number: 166.....Address..89 Stainsby Rd
Household Members: Name Age
Hannah E Green 53........b1818
Ann H Green 16...............daughter b1855
Charlotte Green 14...........daughter b1857
Henry Bassinger 30.........Son In Law b1841
James Bardwell 27.........Boarder
Annie Spiers 40................Lodger

Henrys wife is her daughter Martha. As in the 1881 census Hannah is a lodger living at the same address with Martha Bassenger b1841

This appears to be Martha & her children in the 1871 census;

Name: Martha Bassinges.........Surname is a typo, is actually Bassenger on census
[Martha Bassenger]
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Limehouse, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Poplar
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Poplar
Sub-registration district: Poplar
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 133.......Address 27 Sabbarton St
Household Members: Name Age
Martha Bassinges 30.....b1841
Henry Bassinges 10........Son b1861
Hannah Bassinges 8.......Daughter b1863
Elith Bassinges 6..............Daughter b1865... Elizabeth (another typo, name written in short hand... Elizth)
Chas Bassinges 4............Son b1867......(Maybe Charles in short hand writting)



Regards,
Steve
:o)

Addendum: Marriage of Henry Bassinger & Martha Green

Marriages Sep 1860 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Basinger Henry Mile End 1c 1030<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Gower Elizabeth Mile End 1c 1030
Green Martha Mile End 1c 1030<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Pook James Sanders Mile End 1c 1030
Saville Jane Maria Mile End 1c 1030


Add

AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 20 Dec 2009 10:05

Duplicated Information - From Steve etc.

Regarding Hannahs marriage to Edward.

I think with her age being classed as a minor. Is because the age of adulthood then was 21.

Also I found a different date to the one you stated.

Name: Hannah Elizabeth Haggis
Spouse Name: Edward Green
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 28 Oct 1837
Parish: Saint George In The East
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Thomas Haggis
Spouse Father Name: William Green


Regards,
Steve

Add
SteviesSparklingDangleyBaubles 16th December 2009 13:06 Request review
This appears to be her marriage registration.

Marriages Dec 1837

DORREN Bridget St.George East 2 117
Green Edward St Geo East 2 117 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
HAGGIS Hannah Elizabeth St.George East 2 117 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Ives George St. George East 2 117
Kittridge John Collison St. George East 2 117
POWTER Thomas St.George East 2 117
WELLINGTON Mary White St George East 2 117

Regards,
Steve

Add
SteviesSparklingDangleyBaubles 16th December 2009 14:24 Request review
Having looked the baptisms of Ann Eliza;

Name: Anna Eliza Haggis
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 11 May 1818
Father's Name: Thomas Haggis
Mother's Name: Eliza Haggis
Parish: Saint Dunstan And All Saints
Borough: Tower Hamlets
County: Middlesex

Her fathers name & occupation are the same as in the marriage record. So most likely one & the same person.

As to Eliza being her sister.

Name: Eliza Haggis
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 14 Jul 1822
Father's Name: Thomas Haggis
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Haggis
Parish: Saint Anne, Limehouse
Borough: Tower Hamlets
County: Middlesex

I think this is probably so. Borough, parent names & fathers occupation all the same.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
And this appears to be Elizas' marriage

Name: Eliza Haggis
Spouse Name: George Porle..........surname could be Poole?
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 28 Nov 1842
Parish: All Saints, Poplar
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Thomas Heath Haggis..........Occupation Rope maker
Spouse Father Name: Edward Porle .......... .Occupation Match maker.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This the registration (note George surname is Poole & not Porle)
Marriages Dec 1842

BOWTHORPE Joseph Poplar 2 285
DAVISON Sarah Ann Poplar 2 285
Hooley William Poplar 2 285
PACKER Mary Ann Poplar 2 285
Poole George Poplar 2 285<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
SPENCER Edward John Poplar 2 285
Williams Elizabeth Poplar 2 285
HAGGIS Eliza Poplar 2 28[53] <<<<<<<<<<(page no actually 285 ref ancestry)

Regards,
Steve


AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 20 Dec 2009 10:08


Sylvia (in Canada) 17th December 2009 03:58 Request review

so all sorted before I even saw the question!


steve did a great job there!


I could just add

AuntyS said:-
I have her marriage on 24 Apr 1837 to Edward Green in St George Middlesex. Father Thomas Haggis, mariner. Marriages and Banns states she is a minor. If she were born in 1821 and married in 1837 she would have been 16.


I cannot find the April record, just the one that Steve found:-


Name: Hannah Elizabeth Haggis
Spouse Name: Edward Green
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 28 Oct 1837
Parish: Saint George In The East
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Thomas Haggis Mariner
Spouse Father Name: William Green Labourer

I looked at the image of the Register, and Hannah is down as Minor

Hannah:-
Minor,
Servant
Address:- 2 Sun Court

Edward
Of Full Age
Labourer
Address:- 2 Sun Court


Both Edward and Hannah signed "his/her mark"


Witnesses Matthew Pemberton ("his mark"), and Mary Maria Vincent (signed her own name)

sylvia

Oh Ha!! Sylvia you have added a clue of which I have only just been made aware. "Witnesses Matthew Pemberton".


AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 20 Dec 2009 10:10

This is Matthew Pemberton's death.

Name: Matthew Pemberton
Record Type: Burial
Event Date: 28 Oct 1849
Age: 86
Estimated birth year: abt 1763
Parish: Saint Anne, Limehouse
Borough: Tower Hamlets
County: Middlesex

AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 20 Dec 2009 10:28

1841 census. Name is Matthew Pemberton

Name: Mathan Pemberton
Age: 75
Estimated birth year: abt 1766
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St Anne Limehouse
Hundred: Ossulstone (Tower Division)
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: Stepney
Sub-registration district: Limehouse
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Mathan Pemberton 75
Elizabeth Pemberton 70

What this information does not give which shows on the original image are the people living in the house with Matthew and Elizabeth.
Edward Green 25
Hannah 20
Hannah 2
Martha 4 mnths

Occupation of Matthew Pemberton is Waterman (I think)


Here is his marriage to Elizabeth Haggis. Elizabeth is a widow.

Name: Matthew Temberton
[Matthew Pemberton]
Spouse Name: Elizabeth Haggis
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 10 Dec 1804
Parish: Saint George In The East
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets



AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 20 Dec 2009 10:53

Marriage Thomas Haggis and Elizabeth Brandish.

Name: Thomas Heath Haggis
Spouse Name: Eliza Brandish
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 18 Nov 1814
Parish: Saint George In The East
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets

Witness Matthew Pemberton

AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 20 Dec 2009 20:23

Info from pm from another researcher. Thank you.

I think Mathew and Elizabeth Pemberton both died in 1849.

if Thomas Haggis was a mariner he may have been away at sea for very lengthy periods.

James David Budd Death was in the Royal Navy and at the Chinese Boxer Rebellion

AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 20 Dec 2009 20:33

Now looking for marriage between Elizabeth Haggis nee ? and James Haggis who were parents of Thomas Heath Haggis.


Approx dob Thomas Heath Haggis 1792.


Matthew Pemberton born around 1766 married widow Elizabeth Haggis (wife of James) in 1804. Edit: not certain of "James" may be Heath.

District is around St Anne, Limehouse, Middlesex UK

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 20 Dec 2009 21:06

AuntyS


is this correct?


In the London England Births and baptisms 1813-1906 I have a birth for Anna Eliza Haggis 24 Apr 1818. Father Thomas Haggis, mother Eliza. The date of birth shows on the entry for the baptism on 11 May 1818 at St Dunstan and All Saints, Tower Hamlets.

If It is her birth (1818) this would make her 19 when she married.

There is also another child Eliza Haggis. Born to Thomas and Elizabeth Haggis. Baptism record shows date of birth 14 Apr 1882 and baptism 14 Jul 1882. St Anne Limehouse. Is this her sister.




Was Eliza Haggis really born 1882??


If so ........................ she cannot possibly be Hannah/Anna's sister




or am I reading something wrong here? Wouldn't be the first time!!!




sylvia

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 20 Dec 2009 21:09

?????????????


from familysearch

THOS. HAGGES Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth: 30 SEP 1790

Christening: 21 NOV 1790 Saint George In The East, Stepney, London, England

Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: JAMES HAGGES Family
Mother: ELIZTH.

-----------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

--------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C055782 1779 - 1794 0578788 Film 6902328 Film
C055782 1794 - 1804 0578789 Film NONE
C055782 1805 - 1810 0578790 Film NONE




sylvia

AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 20 Dec 2009 21:24

Detailed Search Results for the surname haggis in the parish register of St Dunstan Stepney 1770 to 1798.

Details for record 1 of 1
Entry No: 7656 Note: 28 days old
Birth Date: Baptism Date: 20/09/1789
First name: Thomas Heath Father: Heath
Mother: Eliz'th Surname: Haggis
Address: Poplar Occupation: Shipw't
Source Ref: X097/286

This is from the Docklands Parish Register. So Thomas Heath Haggis father's name was Heath (not James). Thomas was born in August 1789.


AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 20 Dec 2009 21:29

Hi Sylvia, Nope that is a typo. She was born in 1822. Sorry my mistake. I believe there was another child who died just after birth in 1812. There is a burial registered with no first name.

Have been delving into the Dockland Parish registers. Very frustrating because you have to click on each Parish separately and it takes a long time.

AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 20 Dec 2009 21:51

Criminal Registers.

Name: Thomas Haggis
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1787
Date of Trial: 8 Jul 1803
Trial Year: 1803
Location of Trial: Middlesex, England
Sentence: Transportation
Crime: See Image
Date of Execution or Release: See Image

If I am reading the image correctly his sentence was commuted to army service. The quality of the image is very poor. If that was the case could he have served in the navy.

AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 21 Dec 2009 04:23

Heath Haggis Pedigree
Male Family

Marriages:
Spouse: Elizabeth Halbart Family
Marriage: 30 SEP 1788 St Mary'S, Whitechapel, London, England

Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.

AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 21 Dec 2009 04:27

Confirmation. If Eliza Haggis is the sister of Hannah Elizabeth then the marriage of Eliza shows her father as Thomas Heath Hagis. Therefore Thos Heath Haggis married Elizabeth Brandish at St Geo in the East 1814.

So the Docklands Parish Register shows Thomas Heath Haggis as being born to Heath haggis and Elizabeth is the correct entry for the Thomas Haggis who fathered Hannah Elizabeth and Eliza Haggis.

AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 21 Dec 2009 04:38

So Elizabeth Halbart is wife of Heath Haggis. They married in 1788 and Thomas Heath Haggis was born in 1789.

Elizabeth Haggis nee Halbart married Matthew Pemberton in 1804.
Need death of Heath Haggis.

Name: Heath Haggis
Spouse Name: Elizabeth Habbart (it is Halbart)
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 30 Sep 1788
Parish: Saint Mary, Whitechapel
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets

And guess who the witness was to the marriage: Matthew Pemberton.

AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 22 Dec 2009 09:56

Transferred from GT Thread
My Query

On Ancestry. London Marriages and Banns 1754-1921 Tower Hamlets. Marriage between Eliza Haggis and George Porle (his name is actually Poole). Date of marriage 28 Nov 1842. Eliza's father's name is Thomas Heath Haggis. George's father's name is Edward.

Trade or Profession of Thomas is written as Ropemaker.
Trade of Profession of Edward is written as Matchmaker. (Wonder about that, shades of Fidler on the Roof).

What is the Occupation, trade etc for George Poole.

Thank you.



Edit | Delete | Add
Susan10146857 Today at 06:30 Request review
Joiner

confirmed also by the 1851 census ( Limehouse )...which says he was a Ships Joiner.

His Fathers occupation could be Watchmaker?

Edit.....according to the baptism ( ancestry ) of Eliza in 1822 Thomas was a mariner.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1558&iid=31280_199067-00443&fn=Eliza&ln=Haggis&st=r&ssrc=&pid=5078049&ftm=1

Add
AuntySherlock Today at 09:53 Request review
Thank you for that Susan. I could not work out what the word was. I did think about watchmaker for Edward's occupation. Couldn't find another "W" in the same handwriting for comparison.

Have Thomas as Mariner, interesting about the Ropemaker bit. Another of the extended family also has the occupation of ropemaker.

The London Docklands Parish Records and info about Lightermen and Watermen are associated with info about these families.

LadyKira

LadyKira Report 22 Dec 2009 11:57

Parish Records Collection - baptism
Day: 20

Month: 9

Year: 1789

Forename: Thomas

Othernames: Heath

Surname: Haggis

Fathers forenames: Heath

Fathers occupation: Shipw't

Mothers forenames: Eliz'th

Birth date:

Address: Poplar

Location of church: Stepney

Parish: St Dunstan

Church address: High Street

Entry No: 7656

Source Ref: X097/286

Transcriber Note:

Original Note : 28 days old