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Looking in 1861 for John who may be glass splitter or collier

For reference this is my line (LadyKira)
1861 census - household transcription
Person: WINDERS, John
Address: Broad Oak, Parr

WINDERS, John Head Married M 41 1820 Bricklayer
Sutton
Lancashire VIEW
WINDERS, Ann Wife Married F 38 1823 Bricklayers Wife
Burtonwood
Lancashire VIEW
WINDERS, William Son Unmarried M 17 1844 Appentice To A Bricklayer
Burtonwood
Lancashire VIEW
WINDERS, David Son M 11 1850 Scholar
Burtonwood
Lancashire VIEW
WINDERS, Harriet Daughter F 8 1853 Scholar
Burtonwood
Lancashire VIEW
WINDERS, Mary A Daughter F 6 1855 Scholar
Sutton
Lancashire VIEW
WINDERS, Elizabeth Daughter F 2 1859
Sutton
Lancashire VIEW
WINDERS, John Son M 0 (1M) 1861
Parr
Lancashire

1861 census - household transcription
Person: WINDERS, John
Address: Park Road, Parr
WINDERS, John Head Married M 36 1825 Coal Miner
Whiston
Lancashire VIEW
WINDERS, Mary Wife Married F 32 1829 Formerly Laundress
Knowsley
Lancashire VIEW
WINDERS, Eliza Daughter F 10 1851
Whiston
Lancashire VIEW
WINDERS, Ellen Daughter F 8 1853
Whiston
Lancashire VIEW
WINDERS, George Son M 6 1855
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
WINDERS, Margaret Daughter F 0 (7M) 1861
St Helens
Lancashire

Sorry - HAVE to go off-line now.

Will look again tomorrow!

Dea Xxx

Thanks Dea AS Stevie LancasireAnn.etc
I will be working tomorrow but will be back on line tomorrow night Londn time.
I will try to make contact with the other person who may be connected.

aha

found this in a very old thread
This would be William's son born 1894

Hello Susan
I guess you have the following information from the StHelens MBC website. If not, there is a 'Grave Reference' STHELCEM/44/988 which lists William, Maud and Jean Winders and Ellen Callaghan. Check out under 'Deceased Search' or 'Burial Record' on www.sthelens.gov.uk
Perhaps this might help - I also seem to remember the name Winders around the Dentons Green area in the '50s.
Good luck in your search
Austin Whiteside

Deceased detail SurnameWinders

ForenameBarbara

Death date00 / 00 / 0000

Burial date24 / 07 / 1923

LocationSt Helens Cemetery

Register Number65833

Age53 Years
Grave detail Grave referenceSTHELCEM / 7 / 783

well this is one of them




Deceased detail SurnameWinders

ForenameWilliam

Death date00 / 00 / 0000

Burial date07 / 11 / 1922

LocationSt Helens Cemetery

Register Number64997

Age57 Years
Grave detail Grave referenceSTHELCEM / 7 / 783

There is atree on ancestry that has

Winn Family Gedcom 2009
Public Member Tree
4 sources


Preview
Name: William Winders
Birth: dd mm 1865 - city, Lancashire, England
Marriage: date



William Winders
Birth: dd mm 1865 - city, Lancashire, England
Marriage: date
Spouse: name F: John Hill (Winders)

M: Elizabeth Naylor


Which is different to John who married Elizabeth Dearden


I cannot get access

Are we repeating information over and over again. I am so confused. How did you know William married Elizabeth. Because you have a marriage certificate.
When did Ellen become Elizabeth??

Williams wife is Ellen on all the census.

I am mixing up your lot LK and Susan's lot. And now I'm mixing up who said what.

How did John Winders suddenly become John Hill Winders.

Am I reading all this correctly. How about picking out the pertinent points and putting all the data into one thread.

Start with John Winders, then William and his family. And just Susan's side at this stage.

I need to get ready for work. Bother.

Hi AS

SUSAN

William c1865 married Ellen Taylor fathers name Smith(cert)
Wiliam's father was John. Possible marriage to Elisabeth Deardon posted earlier.

William's father was a glass splitter.
I quite liked 1864 birth mentioned earlier as I can find no other in the area but I followed William 1865 through the census and he married Barbara and his father was a collier.

I posted and labelled my info(LK) as my family even have a Jessie.
My tree also goes back to Parr and Eccleston so there is probably a relation ship but furthur back.

Hi AS

SUSAN

William c1865 married Ellen Taylor fathers name Smith(cert)
Wiliam's father was John. Possible marriage to Elisabeth Deardon posted earlier.

William's father was a glass splitter.
I quite liked 1864 birth mentioned earlier as I can find no other in the area but I followed William 1865 through the census and he married Barbara and his father was a collier.

I posted and labelled my info(LK) as my family even have a Jessie.
My tree also goes back to Parr and Eccleston so there is probably a relation ship but furthur back.

Hi Susan,
Look at the 1891 census I posted near bottom of page 1 of Williams father John Winders & family. Williams brother John aged 13, occupation at this time was Splitter in Glasshouse.

Its very likely that father & son were working for the same company. So its possible at the time of Williams marriage 4yrs earlier. That John was also doing this job.

Steve
:o)

I agree it is possible Stevie but looking at the later censuses I think that is the one who went on to marry Barbara, I have a feeling they were all cousins or something so lots of Williams.

I have access to this tree.


"William Winders
Birth: dd mm 1865 - city, Lancashire, England
Marriage: date
Spouse: name F: John Hill (Winders)
M: Elizabeth Naylor
Which is different to John who married Elizabeth Dearden"

Do you wish me to contact the person and make enquiries. Or will I just take a look see and see what info differs from your info.

Edit. The line goes back to William Winders b. 1813. There is a comprehensive amount of information tracking through to the 1870 and then living rellies. I would prefer to make contact and ask if we could go through the data and see if it helps sort out your problem.

I know it is a public tree but courtesy dictates I do this the polite way. Yeah I know old fashioned.

Are there any particular questions you have and remember I still don't know if this is the correct lineage but it sure looks interesting, after a first glance around.

nudge for Hugh

Hi Sherlock

Do want you feel is right and see if they are able to get her on here.

OK tied up right now. Will do so as soon as I am free.

I am working today again.bACK TONIGHT.

I have sent a message, with the thread link, to the tree owner. Hopefully we will hear from her. Hope this will sort out the jungle.

Thanks Sherlock.