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Frederick Smith

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Christine

Christine Report 13 Mar 2010 20:52

Trying to find Frederick John Smith born 1893 in Haggerston Hackney/Shoreditch. Fathers name Edward William Smith, mothers name Emma Smith (maiden name Crowe). Edward occupation was a Labourer.
Frederick was married in 1915 to Elizabeth Humm.
Fredericks wife died in 1929 in High Street Hackney.He remarried to someone named Winnie. i have not been able to find any other info on this lady.
I know Frederick had 2 children with his first marraige to Elizabeth , children are (Florence & Violet). He had further children with Winnie : Dennis , Robert and Margaret.
Any help would be appreciated with info for census returns on Frederick John Smith and his parents and brothers or sisters in the 1901 & 1911 census returns,
Thank You

GlitterBaby

GlitterBaby Report 13 Mar 2010 21:11

Just for info

Name: Frederick John Smith
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1893
Spouse Name: Elizabeth Humm
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 25 Apr 1915
Parish: St Mark, Victoria Park
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: William Smith - labourer
Spouse Father Name: Robert Humm




How do you know the name of father as Edward William Smith?



Several baptisms on Ancestry for Smith with parents of Edward William and Emma but not a Frederick John - although they do have a Frederick James baptised 1894

Christine

Christine Report 13 Mar 2010 21:14

From the marraige certificate (above info) and his birth certificate ...so sorry i never mentioned this,
Thank You

patchem

patchem Report 14 Mar 2010 09:30

Parents:
Marriages Dec 1877
CROWE Emma Bethnal Green 1c 494
SMITH William Bethnal Green 1c 494

Emma?
Births Jun 1855
Crowe Emma Shoreditch 1c 109
Births Jun 1860
CROWE Emma Mary S* Hackney 1b 319

Do you know Frederick's profession (to help with 1911 search)?

Christine

Christine Report 15 Mar 2010 11:04

Hi, thank you so much for replying,
The information that I have is that Frederick is a Labourer and Timber Porter, i hope this helps
Once again Thank You your help is greatly appreciated,
Chris

patchem

patchem Report 15 Mar 2010 17:50

Here is a Frederick as a timber porter, but birth slightly out, and with mother called Ellen,too young for marriage in 1877, in 1911,
SMITH, Ellen Head Widow F 48 1863 Char Woman Shoreditch
SMITH, Frederick Son Single M 20 1891 Timber Porter Shoreditch
RG number: RG14 Piece: 1136 Reference: RG14PN1136 RG78PN37 RD11 SD4 ED31 SN59
Registration District: Hackney Sub District: South West Hackney EnumerationDistrict: 31 Parish:St John At Hackney Address: 11 Antwerp St the Broadway London Fields County: London
What do you think?
(The writing has been 'gone over' . The Ellen might be something else, though probably not, but her age could be different, though 48 does seem most likely)


Whilst this gives another 1891 birth for Frederick, but Haggerston as wanted, but Emily for mother, but wrong profession for father:
1891 England Census
William Smith Age: 27 Estimated birth year: abt 1864 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Emily Gender: Male Where born: Bristol; St Philips Civil parish: Shoreditch Ecclesiastical parish: St Augustine Town: London County/Island: London Country: England Street Address: 59 Holms Street Occupation: boot laster Registration district: Shoreditch Sub-registration district: Haggerston ED, institution, or vessel: 25
William Smith 27
Emily Smith 28 Bristol
Hettie Smith 8
William Smith 6
Fredk Smith 1
Ada Smith 2/12
Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 254; Folio 89; Page 27; GSU roll: 6095364.

Christine

Christine Report 19 Jan 2011 20:19

Hi....still struggling with this one.. (over a year now...!! )...i still cant seem to find Frederick in the 1901 census....could anyone help please...any help would be appreciated.....as on Frederick's bith and marriage certs it says his fathers name is Edward William Smith...but elusive frederick dosen't fit in with any of the families I liik at...?

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 19 Jan 2011 20:59

Name: Emma Crowe
Spouse Name: William Smith
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 20 Nov 1877
Parish: St James the Great, Bethnal Green
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Arthur Crowe
Spouse Father Name: James Smith

(occupation of William and both fathers was Tailor)

Chris :)

Christine

Christine Report 19 Jan 2011 21:01

Thank You ....!!....i having trouble finding the family members and where they are living in 1901...?

LadyKira

LadyKira Report 19 Jan 2011 21:38

possible


1911 Address: 11 Antwerp St the Broadway London Fields
SMITH, Ellen Head Widow F 48 1863 Char Woman Shoreditch
SMITH, Frederick Son Single M 20 1891 Timber Porter Shoreditch

LadyKira

LadyKira Report 19 Jan 2011 21:59

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Edward Smith Name: Edward Smith
Age: 24
factory operative
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Spouse Name: Emma Crowe
Spouse Age: 30
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 01 Apr 1888
both of napier rd ponders end
Parish: St James, Enfield Highway
County: Middlesex
Borough: Enfield
Father Name: Charles Smith store keeper
bride father name George Crowe farmer
witnesses charles john smith
isabella smith

LadyKira

LadyKira Report 19 Jan 2011 22:07

1901 census - household transcription
Person: SMITH, Edward
Address: 113, Nags Head Road, Enfield
SMITH, Edward Head Married M 37 1864 Sword Setter
Ponders End
Middlesex
SMITH, Emma Wife Married F 43 1858
Nazeing Nr Waltham Abbey
Essex
SMITH, Edward Temple Son Single M 9 1892
Ponders End
Middlesex
SMITH, Ernest George Son Single M 7 1894
Ponders End
Middlesex


1911 Address: 113 Nags Head Road Ponders End Middlesex
SMITH, Edward Head M 47 1864 Sword Letter In R S A Y Ponders End Middx
SMITH, Emma Wife Married
23 years F 53 1858 Nazenig Essex
SMITH, Edward T Son Single M 19 1892 Assistant In Outfitting Dept Of Cooperative Store Ponders End Middx
SMITH, Ernest G Son Single M 17 1894 Apprentice To A Blacksmith Ponders End Middx
SMITH, Florence E Smith Daughter Single F 8 1903 School Girl Ponders End Middx

No Frederick

LadyKira

LadyKira Report 19 Jan 2011 22:41

Smiths are really difficult and I was led up the garden path with my richard Edwad Smith at one point. It will be addresses that confirm things for you at baptisms etc.

Could you backpeddle a little tto what you remember/know to be true.

Is Frederick your direct line ancestor?
What do you know for certain?

Christine

Christine Report 9 Feb 2011 14:25

Really can't understand why frederick is not on either cenus 1901 or 1911.?
I have his birth certificate states that he was born at Shoreditch Infirmary Hoxton in 1893 to parents Edward William Smith and Emma Smith (maiden name Crowe)
Frederick married my grandmother Eliazabeth Humm in 1915 St Marks Church Victoria Park, marraige cert states his father again as Edward William Smith...it does not say that his father is dec'd,.

LadyKira

LadyKira Report 9 Feb 2011 15:40

If he was born 1893 why do yo have him in 1891 census on your ancestry tree?

This is what you have recorded

1891 England Census
about Frederick J Smith Name: Frederick J Smith
Age: 1 Month
Estimated birth year: abt 1891
Relation: Son
Father's name: William E Smith
Mother's name: Emma Smith
Gender: Male
Where born: Bloomsbury, London, England

Civil Parish: Bloomsbury St George
Ecclesiastical parish: Bloomsbury St George
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St Giles
Sub-registration district: St George Bloomsbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William E Smith 26
Emma Smith 28
Edward H Smith 6
Alfred Smith 3
Ernest Smith 1
Frederick J Smith 1 Month



LadyKira

LadyKira Report 9 Feb 2011 16:01

This looks like the same couple

1901 England Census
about James Smith Name: James Smith
Age: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1891
Relation: Son
Father's name: William E Smith
Mother's name: Emma Smith
Gender: Male
Where born: Bloomsbury, London, England

Civil Parish: Bloomsbury St George
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch Woburn Square
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St Giles
Sub-registration district: Bloomsbury and St Giles, South
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 78
Household Members: Name Age
William E Smith 39
Emma Smith 39
Frank Smith 19
Alfred Smith 14
James Smith 10
Harry Smith 8
Albert Smith 1


LadyKira

LadyKira Report 9 Feb 2011 16:03

Frederick j is Frederick james aka james 1901

father is a cab man so not yours

LadyKira

LadyKira Report 9 Feb 2011 16:12

There is a baptism 30 march 1893
for

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Frederic John Smith Name: Frederic John Smith
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1893
Baptism Date: 30 Mar 1893
Father's name: William Smith
Mother's name: Emma Smith
Parish or Poor Law Union: Shoreditch St Leonard
Borough: Hackney

father is a gas fitter

address looks like 3 newing yard

LadyKira

LadyKira Report 9 Feb 2011 16:14

so othing adds up. is this the baptism to go with the birth cert you have and is it the correct one?

Christine

Christine Report 24 Jun 2011 17:36

soooooo late getting back to you....comp problems...!!
Frederick John birth cert :
Born Shoreditch Infirmary Hoxton Road Haggerston
3 New Inn Yard, Shoreditch, Haggerston (1893)
now I am so confused...
his fathers marraige cert :
Married Edmonton 1888
Age at time of marriage 24yrs, Occ:Factory Operative
Witnesses to marriage Charles John Smith and Isabella Smith
.....why is poor Fred not in the 1901 & 1911 census...?...I am so confused...nothing seems to add up...is Fred calling himself James...?...I so need some expert advice on family history...lol