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I've heard that some churches charge about that for information. Wonder if it is a standard policy?

Hi all -won't be around for the next few days. It just occurred to me that a crucial piece of info could be John Edward Jones' occupation given on his marriage to Elizabeth Hannah Cropper. You probably won't even have to buy the certificate Martyn because the info you posted on pg 26 suggests 2 people may already have it? Can you ask them about John's occupation or look back through the notes you made and see if you wrote it down?

Julie

well what a shock that was.
phoned and spoke to the vicar,only thing i could get that i did not tell him was fathers occupation.
i declined his offer as they want £19 for it

Longsight where Flo married might be worth a phone call as you know the yr & qtr she married.

Alternatively
Royton, St Anne, Longsight
Archdeaconry: Rochdale
Deanery: Oldham West
Benefice: Royton, St Anne Longsight
Parish: Royton, St Anne, Longsight
Contact Details
The Revd J A Read (James)

Tel: H: 0161 624 2249, W: 0161 652 3090

Address:
St Anne's Vicarage
St Anne's Avenue
Royton
Oldham OL2 5AD.

Email: Send Email

hi jan,
you didn't think it would be that easy,knowing this family.


i did messages to all with florence jones 1900 born cheshire,no matches,

just seen 3 possible children for Florence but cannot get a match on "search trees" which is a shame

hi
ann i gave her the grave number etc,she looked on computer &then said she would ring me back as she needed to look in the archive books,she phoned back within a hour with the details,she was very pleasant and helpful.hope you have the same luck

Maybe Gene will have some answers when she is back!
I suppose Florence's marriage cert would mention father pity they are not on line as some counties have done

perhaps
a) John died later and was cremated
b) they were separated
c) she was a widow & Florence was just asked ' husband's name' when registering death

wonder if Elizabeth left a will

I have some grave papers which state the grave belongs to my gt grandmother not her husband. Not followed that route in my tree yet (adopted line) but might do as Royton cem seem helpful so maybe hollingwood cem (Oldham) will be as good.

hi,
have spoken to royton cem,elizabeth is on her own the grave was purchased by william edwards of 10 croft head son in law i presume,
looking at certs,john edward registered by widow,
elizabeth registered by daughter florence,
her cert say's wife of john edward jones,so where was he?
why did he not buy the grave?
if he was still alive when did he die?
why is he not with her?

thank's for explaining ann,tomorrow i will phone royton cem to see if they can offer any help

The word 'journeyman' comes from the French word journee, meaning the period of one day; this refers to their right to charge a fee for each day's work. They would normally be employed by a master craftsman, but would live apart and might have a family of their own. A journeyman could not employ others. In contrast, an apprentice would be bound to a master, usually for a fixed term of seven years, and lived with the master as a member of the household, receiving most or all of their compensation in terms of food and lodging.

I have several people in my tree who were carpenters and each census shows them moving from 'apprentice carpenter' to journeyman to master.

I like your suggestion that John Edward was running 2 families Julie but I think in practice he would have kept the same occupation description.

It would have been nice if that theory fitted.

Maybe back to basics is the first step with a summary so that something may hit one of us that we missed first time round. I know relatives can give info that they THINK they remember correctly but which is wrong but there is too much which tallies in this case.

hi ann,
i alway's wondered what journeyman meant,strange description if you don't move around in your job ,still alot of thing's were strange in them day's

Thanks Ann - should have checked what it meant - so that blows one theory then!

Martyn here's the contact details for Oldham Cemeteries:

*

Search cemetery and crematorium records

Opening times

All cemeteries are open every day from dawn to dusk.

The cemeteries office is open 9.00am to 4.00pm Monday to Friday.
Contact

Contact us to join the Friends of Cemeteries Group or for help with researching grave records.

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Phone: 0161 681 1312
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Email: env.cemeteries@oldham.gov.uk

Julie

MI's for Royton St Paul are at Lancs RO.

description 'journeyman electrical engineer' means he had served his apprenticeship as an electrical engineer but had not yet qualified as a master engineer. Nothing to do with travelling, just stating the exact level of his qualification.

good idea julie

I feel quite positive! Either we're on the wrong track and need to go back to basics or it's the right track with some more untangling to do.

It may be possible to find living relatives of Florence who can fill in some gaps.

it might be worth trying to find out if anyone else is buried with Elizabeth in Royton Cemetery and whether there is a gravestone with an inscription.

Julie

going back to wedding cert&birth cert dates norman is the right one ,just do not understand cropper mmn,just checked bmd&he is the only one in the time span