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I see that also says Norman P wonder why it wasn't on birth cert?
Do you have marriage cert. this should say if father was d'ced

i dont know why but informant could not write it says mark of kate wolstenholme present at birth and a cross i dont have marriage cert i suppose kate wolstenholme must have been one of those older ladies who used to deliver babies in the neighbourhood

so if mother didn't register it could she have died soon after having him??Name: Elizabeth Jones
Estimated birth year: abt 1888
Year of Registration: 1915
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 27
District: Oldham
County: Greater Manchester, Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 860

jan could this be a break through i feel you know my family as much as i do john was in army for ww1

Its getting a long thread so am just trying to put it together a bit.
Known details
you,mother,
parents marriage Jones/Lockhart----might be a good idea to get this as it could say if John Edward is d'ced as mother doesn't remember him
witness names could be family.
Does mum know anything about siblings. Did they marry? were they alive when Norman died?.Are there any cousins? Any deaths will give idea of their births.If we find this it might connect them with info already found by others

hi jan what mum can remember is arthur marrid twice she can only remember the name of second ada son kenneth not sure with with 1 or 2 nellie moved to todmorden had a farm son alan rose-salford area sid married nora 3 children pat alan & lynn

ok will have a look for them today ,does she have any idea of cousins ages i.e older or younger than herself?

i hope to have a memory jogging chat with her today not sure about ages i know arthur was the last to die dont know when sids children are younger the others either same age group or older

I think maybe as well as seeing what the note about Rose Ann was I should have another look for the Arthur's baptism that was in the index.

Not sure about "nellie moved to todmorden had a farm son alan rose-salford area sid married nora 3 children pat alan & lynn"

did this mean Nellie became Nellie Rose or Rosey moved to Salford. There is a marriage of a Nellie Jones to a Harry Rose in Oldham.

Ann i see there are a few Arthur death's Oldham but could this be about the birth year???
Name: Arthur Jones
Birth Date: 30 May 1899
Death Registration Month/Year: 1972
Registration district: Oldham
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10f
Page: 305
What was the info about Rose Ann?

hi ann &jan nellie remained nellie &rose lived in salford the death is not right one he died after norman 1986 for norman sid married nora &had 3 children named pat alan &lynn regards martyn

jan - things are beginning to get lost as this thread gets more complicated

this is what I found in the parish regs of Our Lady in Oldham

Arthur - did not find in register - may have missed it 16-6-1899 on list
(could this be the Arthur whose death you found?) - note - his name was in an index but did not see it in the reg

this was the bit about Rose

Rose Ann 19-12-1909 (parents details not clear) but there was rather a lot written in the name margin which we could not read. The archivist is going to look up the original to see if she can read it and let me have any translation next time I go (poss next Thurs). Miracles do happen - it may shed a lot of light or just confuse things further

The Jones bit if the fathers surname seemed to have been crossed through but lots of marks on the reg if I remember rightly the mmn was manghan (same as John Edward b 1902) but again unclear whether it had been crossed out

If Norman was born in Oldham as a strict RC he must have been baptised somewhere. Unfortunately the records for the only other RC churches which were open at that time were
St Annes Greenacres - baptisms to 1914
and
Royton baptism to 1916 - that might be worth a look

could do with knowing when any of the older children were born really

I've forgotten Martyn why you were convinced he was born in Oldham

just a suggestion as to why he may have had an extra name on death cert -
if he was RC the extra name could have been added at baptism or confirmation

thanks for that info Ann

Arthur was older than Norman(1915) and died after Norman(1986) so if it was in Oldham these are possibles to 2005

Name: Arthur Gordon Jones
Birth Date: 19 Nov 1908
Death Registration Month/Year: Jun 1991
Age at death (estimated): 82
Registration district: Oldham
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 39
Page: 71

Name: Arthur Jones
Birth Date: 7 Jan 1913
Death Registration Month/Year: Oct 1994
Age at death (estimated): 81
Registration district: Oldham
Inferred County: Lancashire
Register number: OC29B
District and Subdistrict: 0071C
Entry number: 279


Name: Arthur Jones
Birth Date: 13 May 1907
Death Registration Month/Year: Nov 2003
Age at death (estimated): 96
Registration district: Oldham
Inferred County: Lancashire
Register number: OA49B
District and Subdistrict: 007/1A
Entry number: 176

hi again had my chat with mum more details but not dates first i asked about churches she says she thinks st marys or st patricks very near were they lived. next nellie married william glover they moved to todmoden and had 5 children rueben , john, alan, arthur,&sheila .arthur was youngest &about 4 yrs older than mum next arthur married ada his 2nd wife his children mavis, kenneth, iris all older than mum kenneth lived in scotland. rose lived in salford she had a daughter mum didnt know her . sidney married nora they had 3 children pat ,alan,&lynn younger than mum sid&leonard died before norman artur died after norman mum says sid did not look like the others so i wonder if jan was right about another marriage i.e. mary

not having any luck yet with Jones Glover marriage or childrens birth for them? will keep looking

thanks jan

VERY confused now. children you have given Glover.
Have found matching names BUT mmn is Leicester!
Reuben Glover Jan Feb Mar 1926 Todmorden Yorkshire
John E Glover Apr May Jun 1928 Todmorden Yorkshire
Alan Glover Oct Nov Dec 1930 Todmorden Yorkshire
Arthur Glover Jan Feb Mar 1934 Todmorden Yorkshire
Just got to find Shelia
possible marriage
Name: William Glover
Spouse Leicester ELLEN (my gran Ellen was sometimes known as Nellie)
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1918
Registration district: Oldham
Registration county (inferred): Lancashire
Volume Number: 8d
Page Number: 954