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Surgeon John Heatley - Please review thread

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


lancashireAnn Report 24 Apr 2011 13:58

not sure this is any help - but look at the mixture of names!!

Marriage: 11 Jun 1792 St Andrew, Leyland, Lancashire, England
Ralph Heys - Muslin Manufacturer of This Parish
Ann Heatley - Spinster of Chapelry of Walton le Dale
Witness: John Craven; Ann Craven
Married by Licence by: Thomas Baldwin Vicar
Register: Marriages 1783 - 1793, Page 174, Entry 519
Source: LDS Film 93952


Marriage: 29 Nov 1798 St Andrew, Leyland, Lancashire, England
Edward Craven - Merchant of Leyland
Ann Heatley - Spinster of Leyland
Witness: Ann Heys; Richard? Heys
Married by Licence by: Thomas Baldwin Vicar
Register: Marriages 1793 - 1812, Page 77, Entry 308
Source: LDS Film 93952


Simon Report 24 Apr 2011 18:19

Hi Ann

Glad to have you back on this, I am confused and stuck

Were there only a few surnames at the time. It is always Heatley, Heys and Craven.

There is a Ralph Heatley in every generation up to the present and there is always a Ralph Heys.

I believe John Heatley's mum was Mary Heys but I have never found her parents.
Was Ralph Heys a brother, cousin, uncle?

Who was Elizabeth Craven?

Friends or family?

Was Ann Heatley who married Ralph Heys related to John Heatley?

The more I know the more confused I become.


Simon Report 24 Apr 2011 18:24

Thanks to Ria for this snippet.
Was this the reason Surgeon John Heatley died penniless.
Did the bank he invested in go bust.
Some of the names are the same as the witnesses.
Is it just a coincidence?

The Lancaster Gazette, and General Advertiser for Lancashire, Westmorland, Yorkshire, &c. (Lancaster, England), Saturday, May 09, 1868
Stoppage of a Bank at Preston -On Monday morning the Bank of Messrs ROSKELL, ARROWSMITH and Kendal, Preston suspended payment. The bank has been established about 43 years and the present partners are Mrs Roskell aged 86 years (formerly of Winckley square, Preston and now of Liverpool), the widow the late Mr John Roskell, Mr Robert Arrowsmith and Mr John Kendal. The liabilities are estimated at about £80,000 and it is expected fully 12s in the £ will be realised to the creditors after payment of expenses. Application was made on Monday morning to the Manchester Bankruptcy Court for the common order for protection in such cases, and no doubt as soon as possible a meeting of creditors will be called to wind up the estate without the interference of the Bankruptcy Court as has been the case in other instances. There is no expectation whatever that the bank will be able to resume payment. The bank had particularly A CATHOLIC connection and very many of that body will be unfortunately, considerable losers. The immediate cause of stoppage is the withdrawal within a recent period of large sums (as it is understood) whcih had been deposited = the parties making the deposits wanting their money in order to invest in purchases. The remote cause of the stoppage is supposed to have been the constant drain upon the resources of the bank required to work Mr Ashworths mill, Walton, which for many years past, in consequence, of the depression of the cotton trade has been thrown upon the hands of Messrs Roskell & Co. The other banks in Preston were informed on Sunday of the intended stoppage and of course took immediate action to meet the emergency. It is certain that in the present instance the loss has not arisen from any over speculating or extravagance and much sympathy is felt for the proprietors, who will of course, sacrifice the whole of their property.


Simon Report 26 Apr 2011 14:31



lancashireAnn Report 26 Apr 2011 15:13

can't find a connection between the names but it has to be more than co-incidence surely. If you have access via a library site to the Gale group 19th C newspapers there is a v long article about the bankruptcy in the Preston Guardian which makes the affair of the bank even more complicated.

I wonder if they were hoping that the situation with the shortage of cotton due to the American Civil War was going to improve and lent too much money to 1 manufacturer on that basis.

In teresting even if no connection.

Were any of the Heatley family RC?


Simon Report 26 Apr 2011 15:23

Yes the Manchester Heatleys were RC

Captain William Heatley was RC and his money built churches in Manchester including St Patricks John Heatley's family worshipped at.

I have access to Lancashire Library I will take a look.

There is more here but nothing I can link to John Heatley.


lancashireAnn Report 26 Apr 2011 16:00

have you trying looking at the newspapers for 'heatley and eastwood'. There is a long article about william's will dispute.


Simon Report 26 Apr 2011 16:36


I have seen that before and it is on the Catholic Record site too and in in the Lancashire Archives.

I came across the Captain whilst searching for John Heatley in the archives.

I then thought I might be able to find more about John through the Captain.

I have found the Captains family tree that includes the names of Hugh and Ralph that have appeared in the family tree that I know of John 1813.
I have worked out Captains Williams family back to 1500.

What I havn't done is found out where John Heatley 1813 connects with the Captain.
They were both alive at the same time.
I think Captain William was an Uncle or great Uncle or maybe a little more removed than that but related to John.

The mystery to me is why can't I find John Heatley's parents for sure.

I think these are his parents but can't find any more evidence to back it up other than John's children have Heys as their middle name.

Marriage: 25 May 1809 St Leonard, Walton le Dale, Lancashire, England
John Heatley - Preston Corn Dealer
Mary Heys -
Register: Marriages 1807 - 1809, Page 5, Entry 109
Thomas Gregson, JNo Talbot
Henry Smith Wheelwright, Elizabeth Craven
Source: LDS Film 1656765


Simon Report 27 Apr 2011 19:58

Can someone please look up Ralph Heatley for me.
I can't find a birth record for him

It is interesting he has the name Heys in his name.
Born in 1845 according to the census.

John Heatley had a son Peter Ralph Jackson Heatley could the Ralph on the 1871 record be the same man.

1871 England Census
about Ralph Heatley Heys
Name: Ralph Heatley Heys
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Mary
Father's Name: John
Gender: Male
Where born: Southport, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: North Meols
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Ormskirk
Sub-registration district: North Meols
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Household schedule number: 176
Household Members:
Name Age
Ralph Heatley Heys 26
Mary Heys 23
John Heys 72
Constantine Nicholas Graloussey 25
Jemma Pickstock 21
Mary Jones 25


View original image

I have the following other records

Male Family


Spouse: MARY DAWSON Family
14 JUN 1868 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England

On 1851 Child aged 12
On 1861 Land Designer
On 1891 Bricklayers Labourer Living at 59 Kenyon St

If it is the same man who were John Heatley born abt 1800 and Mary Heys abt 1847.

I need inspiration


MarieCeleste Report 27 Apr 2011 20:43

New thread also started on Trying to Find


Simon Report 27 Apr 2011 20:50


I started a new thread as I knew if I did I would get the answers quickly

This is an old thread and only a few people would bother to look.

I have a new lead and I want to explore them.

I will delete the other thread if required.


MarieCeleste Report 27 Apr 2011 21:05

Simon, nudging up this thread will get as much response as starting a new one.

It's basically the same people who help out on various boards but also other people will waste their time searching for, and posting, information that has already been found on this one.

A good tip, when adding new info (like your new lead) is to go to your first post on the thread, click edit and then alter the heading to reflect that this is an update, or whatever is appropriate.

Hope this helps, good luck.


Simon Report 27 Apr 2011 21:10

Thanks Marie

It's an exciting but frustrating journey this one as is my Sass family!

I wish I could crack both of them.


MarieCeleste Report 27 Apr 2011 21:45

Simon, you've seen nothing 'til you've seen my Daubeney's!!

All we can do is keep chipping away.


Simon Report 27 Apr 2011 21:58

Births Mar 1844 (>99%)

Heys Ralph Heatley Ormskirk 21 590

Who was his father?


SylviaInCanada Report 27 Apr 2011 21:59


I helped you earlier on this thread

Since then it pops up in My Threads every day, whenever a new posting is made.

So I've been watching it.

This is one reason why you do not need to keep starting new threads.

There really is a limited number of us who help out on the boards!

The second, and main, reason why you should not keep starting new threads is because all that does is waste time for helpers finding all this information all over again.

As MarieCeleste suggests, it is far far better to edit the TITLE of this thread so that people can see there is an update, and will read it to see what this si.

But it really strikes me that you have got as far as you can get .................. at least until more records are put onto the internet, and that doesn't happen every 5 minutes!

It may be time to let this thread slide for a couple of months or so ................... mark it in your Bookmarks, come back in 2 or 3 months, change the title to add UPDATE, and see if there is anything to be found.

But please, please don't waste the time of any more helpers finding information that has already been found!



SylviaInCanada Report 27 Apr 2011 22:03

Births Mar 1844 (>99%)

Heys Ralph Heatley Ormskirk 21 590

Who was his father?

1. BUY the birth certificate to find out

2. Go to the web site I gave you earlier, and see if the baptism is on there

3. Go to

4. Go to

and see if his baptism is in the records there



Simon Report 27 Apr 2011 22:05

I have not asked to find Ralph Heys Heatley before or his father.

I find new snippets all the time.

I go to Preston once a months and trawl through various records.

Many thanks for your input.


SylviaInCanada Report 27 Apr 2011 22:06

Ralph Heatley Heys is in a private Family Tree on ancestry

have you contacted that person?


Simon Report 27 Apr 2011 22:11

No I only came across this name in the last 24 hours.

Is the Surname Heatley or Heys though.?

It could be the same family just switching the names round.