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Hi TonyOz

My Gt Gt Grandfather Richard King arrived in WA on the Hougoumont, convict number 9800.

I have found the Fremantle Prison site with the summary about his time. I have also found some references to him in the Police Gazette for when he was on Ticket of Leave. And also in the newspapers via the Trove site for when he was found having stolen gunpowder after his certified freedom date which earned him another 2 years hard labour.

Could you help please explain why his total time served was longer than the 15 years he was sentenced for? I assume he must have done something else which earned him more time!

Sentence date was 7 March 1867, arrived Fremantle gaol 10 Jan 1868, certified freedom date 21 May 1886, a total of 19 years since he was sentenced and he'd been in gaol in England from when he was picked up for his burglarly committed on 29 August 1866.

Any info about that or what was his eventual demise would be welcome. Thanks in advance!

bump :-D

Tony thanks for looking. He has always been difficult to trace as his age varies and also the spelling which sometimes people write as Spencer.

I had considered those on the Criminal Register and the only one I know for sure is him is the Transportation as it is recorded in the local paper.

As his wife moves away and remarries I get the feeling that he just disappeared and I suspect as you said, died before he could be transported.

Regards and best wishes Jennifer

Hi RutlandBelle.

Unfortunatley, there is no record in our archives relating to your "Thomas Spence" ever arriving to Australia in or after 1852/3

Only two Thomas Spence sent here.....one in 1819 and the other 1840.

Transportation to the colony of New South Wales was officially abolished on 1 October 1850. By 1852 only two states were receiving convicts, they were Tasmania and Western Australia ( Fremantle ).
I have checked both State convict archives, but none list a Thomas Spence circ.1852 upwards as an arrival.

Something to be aware of......that not all convicts sentenced to Transportation actually arrived, as this was a pending sentence of transportation......... Some perished in the many prisons or Convict Hulks docked in ports in the U.K........while waiting to be transported.

I also noticed the various Thomas Spence on the England & Wales,Criminal Registers, 1791-1892


Name:Thomas Spence
Age:36
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1807
Date of Trial:27 Feb 1843
Trial Year:1843
Location of Trial:Yorkshire - West Riding, England
Sentence:Imprisonment ( 6 months )


Name:Thomas Spence
Date of Trial:6 Mar 1852
Trial Year:1852
Location of Trial:Yorkshire - North Riding, England
Sentence:Acquittal


Name: Thomas Spence
Date of Trial: 5 Apr 1852
Trial Year: 1852
Location of Trial: Yorkshire - West Riding, England
Sentence: Transportation


Name:Thomas Spence
Date of Trial:5 Jan 1858
Trial Year:1858
Location of Trial:Yorkshire - West Riding, England
Sentence:Imprisonment


Only other possible is that he arrived under a different name ( alias )


Tony.

Tony, I would be interested to know if you could find anything about the following man. He was born in Scotland but by 1841 he was in Huddersfield and married to a local woman. He had been a tobacconist but appears to have fallen on hard times.

Name: Thomas Spence
Date of Trial: 5 Apr 1852
Trial Year: 1852
Location of Trial: Yorkshire - West Riding, England
Sentence: Transportation

I have an article from the Huddersfield Chronicle 1852 which states that Thomas Spence, age 56, was sentenced to 7yrs Transportation for stealing a coat. (Previous conviction). He was convicted at Wakefield, Yorkshire.

I have been unable to find a record of him actually going to, I assume, Australia

He left behind a wife and 4 children.

Regards and Thanks, Jennifer.

PS My good friend is a keen metal detectorist and has had a lot of good finds.

Just nudging again

Thank's for loooking Tony.....
Great read too :-)

Hi Cane.

The last convict ship to Australia was in Western Australia, the "Hougoumont", left Britain in 1867 and arrived in Western Australia on 10 January 1868....From 1868 Australia stopped receiving convicts from the U.K...so your Richard Abbot born 1882 would not have been transported to Australia.

Australian records show only one Richard ( seen as Abbott ) convict transported here, but it was in 1833

Richard Abbott, one of 214 convicts transported on the Waterloo, 11 March 1833.
Sentence details: Convicted at Lancaster Quarter Session for a term of life on 07 January 1833.
Vessel: Waterloo.
Date of Departure: 11 March 1833.
Place of Arrival: New South Wales.



Tony

Hi Tony....All i can say is Richard Abbot* born 1882 yorkshire....he is a pain to find...and wouldnt surprise me.... :-S

Nudge

egduN

Nudge

bump :-)

Thanks Tony
Sorry to have written to you again, I had forgotten that I had already asked you for info.
I think you are right and he dropped the Emmerson,so a dead end there.
The tree's on Ancestry with him on it are relations of mine,who I have made contact with and have copied him onto their own tree's.I did ask the NSW library for a look up which they did and they couldn't find any thing additional either

Thanks again
Blue12

Hi Blue1

Unfortunatley, i cannot find anymore regarding Thomas Emmerson Chandler, than the info i found in 2010

3 Dec 2010
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/records_office/thread/1251096

Its always possible he may have dropped the Emmerson, and just went under Thomas Chandler, to which there were many marriages and deaths of a Thomas Chandler in NSW.

Many an ex-convicts dropped or added letters and middle names off or onto their Given and Surnames after finishing there terms, so they could blend in with society, and/or dissapear into the landscape.

The only possible i can see is death registered in NSW of a Thomas Chandler who died in 1878 ...Father: Richard

CHANDLER, Thomas CD 146283 Death
Father: Richard
Mother: Eliza
Index Year: 1878
Reg Year: 1878
Reg State: New South Wales
Ref Number: 2052

There are Family Trees on "Ancestry" with him listed, but they are set to "Private" and cannot be viewed unless invited.
I dont know if you are a member of Ancestry?

I have searched various early Colonial Newspapers, but after 1840s the full name of Thomas Emmerson Chandler is not listed.......and can only be seen as Thomas Chandler......but there were many Thomas Chandler names in Colonial Australia.


Sorry, but i cant add further to this.

Tony

Hi Sam,
I only found him by chance.I was looking for records of my 3x grandfather,also Thomas Emmerson Chandler.And the name came up in the criminal records on Ancestry.
The middle name Emmerson came down through the family up untill the 1920's

Blue1

Wow
How interesting wish i knew if i had any thing like that going on in my tree

Sam

Hi Tony,
thanks for the offer of help

I have an ancestor "Thomas Emmerson/Emerson Chandler" born abt 1815 in Cambridgeshire,who was transported to NSW for seven years,on the 9th April 1834 aboard the ship "Surrey" after being convicted of Larceny in Lewes Sussex 14 Dec 1833 and held aboard a prison hulk.He was about 16 years old.
His father was "Charles Richardson Chandler" sometimes refered to as "Richard Chandler" and his mother was Honour South.

He had a brother called John Richardson Chandler who I am decended from.
John named his son born 1838 "Thomas Emmerson Chandler" after his brother.

I have been unable to trace Thomas after he was granted his freedom,so have no idea of where he settled,married or died.I don't think he came back to England as the only Thomas Emmerson Chandler I have found English records for after he was transported is his nephew born 1838.

Could you please look and see if you can find any thing out for me.

his middle name "Emmerson" is included on all documents I have come across for him,perhaps he started useing his middle name as a first name?

Any information you come across re marriage or death,criminal,or any other records, would be very much appreciated

Many Thanks
Blue1



I have his cert of freedom and the details on it

4th June 1841

prison n/o 41/712

Thomas Emmerson Chandler

Born Cambridgeshire abt 1815

His Occupation "Sweep"
Place of trial "Sussex"
date of trial 14 Dec 1833
sentence seven years

Physical description

5ft 5in,Complextion Ruddy,Hair Light,Eyes Hazel Grey,Tattoo of Woman lower right arm,Blue band on his third finger left hand,Scar lower right wrist,Scar four finger of left hand,Large round scar front of calf of right leg.

nudging for Antony :-)

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)