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James Bird

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Richard

Richard Report 12 Apr 2010 02:21

Can anyone help on any facts of James Bird probably from Birmingham. The birth dates I have are conflicting anywhere between 1812 and 1827. He married a Charlotte Papworth born c1817 on 17/10/1841 then later married Priscilla Adams born 1827 in Aston Juxta Birmingham in 1849, all from the West Midlands I think. I would dearly like to know who Jame's father and mother were as well. I think James was a gold cutter or jeweler. James and Priscilla had a son Henry Thomas Bird 20/07/1852.
Any help would be fantastic!

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 12 Apr 2010 02:39

It sounds like you have the 1841 marriage certificate:

Marriages Dec 1841
BIRD James Huntingdon 14 335
PAPWORTH Charlotte Huntingdon 14 335

Or maybe the date you have is from the IGI? If so, you need the certificate, which will ordinarily state James's (and Charlotte's) father's name and occupation. That will give you a tiny bit of info to go on for searching the early censuses and other records.

Btw, if he married in 1841, he wasn't likely born as late as 1827. ;)

Can you maybe give the sources of the birthdates, and what they are?

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 12 Apr 2010 02:42

The marriage certificate to either of his wives will tell you who his father was. As you have the exact date of marriage to his first wife, can we assume this is from a marriage certificate? It will normally show his father's name and occupation.

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 12 Apr 2010 02:45

Janey, it ain't on the IGI so he must have the cert, or has seen a parish record.

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 12 Apr 2010 02:50

1851 England Census
about Priscilla Bird
Name: Priscilla Bird
Age: 40
Estimated birth year: abt 1811
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: James
Gender: Female
Where born: Eastington, Gloucestershire, England

Civil parish: Eastington
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Wheatenhurst
Sub-registration district: Haresfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 5c and 6b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 63
Household Members: Name Age
James Bird 47
Priscilla Bird 40
Mary Bird 18
Emma Bird 17
Charlotte Bird 11
James W Bird 11 Mo
Fanny G Bird 8

But Priscilla is not born 1827.

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 12 Apr 2010 02:51

Finally found somebody on a census!

1861

Name: Henry Bird
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1853
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Precila
Where born: Birmingham

Civil parish: Birmingham
Town: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Registration district: Birmingham

James Bird 34 - c1827, Birmingham
Precila Bird 34 - c1827, Birmingham
James Bird 10
Henry Bird 8
Mary Bird 5
William Bird 3


I'm not seeing an obvious choice for Charlotte's death.

Are we absolutely certain these are the same James Bird??

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 12 Apr 2010 02:53

1861 England Census
about Henry Bird
Name: Henry Bird
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1853
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Precila
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmingham

Civil parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
Town: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 166
Household Members: Name Age
James Bird 34 Gold Cutter
Precila Bird 34
James Bird 10
Henry Bird 8
Mary Bird 5
William Bird 3

EDIT: SNAP!!

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 12 Apr 2010 02:56

No, my 1851 family parents are too old.

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 12 Apr 2010 02:57

Marriages Dec 1841 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BARNES Catharine Huntingdon 14 335
BIRD James Huntingdon 14 335
HUMFREYS Elizabeth Huntingdon 14 335
LAMB Charles Huntingdon 14 335
PACK Robert Huntingdon 14 335
PAPWORTH Charlotte Huntingdon 14 335

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 12 Apr 2010 02:58

Meg, we've hit the same people in 1861.

There's no overlap between the 1851 crew and the 1861. The 1851, with a daughter Charlotte, looks good. Older children could have belonged to Priscilla?


I posted the 1841 marriage right up top ...

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 12 Apr 2010 02:59

I think we need Richard to come back and give us some facts.

Censuses for the family, places, sources of info, etc. Nothing is adding up well so far.

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 12 Apr 2010 03:07

But he reckons he married Charlotte first and Priscilla second. In 1849.
Marriages Dec 1849 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adam Priscilla Aston 16 393
Bird James Aston 16 393
Dinton Ellen Aston 16 393
Firkin Hezekiah Aston 16 393
Goode John Aston 16 393
Hall John Aston 16 393
Naylor Jane Aston 16 393
Price Hannah Aston 16 393

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 12 Apr 2010 03:11

Oh, you mean James belongs to Priscilla.

Mary, Emma and Charlotte having done a bunk by 1861.

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 12 Apr 2010 03:18

Is it possible there are two James Birds with wives Priscilla?

1881 England Census
about James W. Bird
Name: James W. Bird
Age: 31
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Priscilla
Gender: Male
Where born: Eastington, Gloucestershire, England

Civil parish: Eastington
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Baker (Journeyman)

Registration district: Wheatenhurst
Sub-registration district: Frampton
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
James Bird 77 Woollen Clothworker, b Eastington
Priscilla Bird 71
James W. Bird 31

Ancestry has the family on the wrong page.


Madmeg

Madmeg Report 12 Apr 2010 03:21

1871 England Census
about James W Bird
Name: James W Bird
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Pricilla
Gender: Male
Where born: Eastington, Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish: Eastington
Town: Mill End
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Registration district: Wheatenhurst
Sub-registration district: Frampton
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 31
Household Members: Name Age
James Bird 67
Pricilla Bird 61
Charlotte Bird 28
James W Bird 21
Francis Bird 25


Madmeg

Madmeg Report 12 Apr 2010 03:24

Deaths Jun 1853 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Askey Elizabeth Birmingham 6d 119
Barber Catharine Birmingham 6d 119
Bennett Richard Birmingham 6d 119
Bird Charlotte Birmingham 6d 119

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 12 Apr 2010 03:25

Richard, summat ain't right with the age of Mr Bird. Can you tell us which of his children is your ancestor and what information you have on that person?

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 12 Apr 2010 03:58

Not to mention that the Charlotte Bird death in Birmingham is several years after the Priscilla marriage, and a whole lot of other things don't add up at all.

Some of the things stated in the opening post: Facts not in evidence, as they say in police procedurals on US teevee!

I think there's a fair bit of muddled info here.

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 13 Apr 2010 01:11

PM sent to Richard to get him back to look at things.

AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 13 Apr 2010 11:08

Is it still fun or are you drowning in red herrings.

Just call me Sherlock!!