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Back to William Clarke.

What do you think to this marriage and there are births with mmn Hughes in the names of the children you are looking for.

I had posted them but will send them by pm as they may be living.

Of course there's no way of knowing if they're correct without some certs.

England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005
about William Clarke
Name: William Clarke
Spouse Surname: Hughes
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1936
Registration district: Birmingham
Registration county (inferred): Warwickshire
Volume Number: 6d
Page Number: 1057
Spouse
Muriel L Hughes


Christine

Anthony

I have not read all your thread but I have a suggestion for you as I have a similar name. Try this as a search term.

B*bin*t*n

That covers most of the misspellings in one go.

I haven't been looking at GR this morning because I found someone else's family tree on Ancestry, on it my John Babington (born 1865, London, Mum & dad Jane & John) was married to Elizabeth Carrington (1861), they had a son Ernest born 1893 and - guess what 2 daughters, Ellen (1999) and Rosie May (1900) - my Ellen and Rosie May! even though I have a birth certificate that says Ellen Clarke/Babbington was Rosie's mum. I've been checking censuses etc to check what happened to Elizabeth if perhaps John left her and ran away with Helen/Ellen. This doesn't explain why William isn't with Helen in 1901 or Ellen in 1911 (same person) but might explain why Lilian is a Clarke not a Babbington, as for Ernest (1910) being a Babington or Babbington - I don't know.

Hi Christine
Well, you clever girl you! Well done I think the William Clarke/Muriel Hughes marriage is almost definitely the one and looking at the childrens births on the pm you sent the names and dates are perfect, although I didn't know about Margaret, maybe she's not one of mine. I thought maybe Margaret died at birth as Muriel was born later the same year but looking at bmd I can't see a death that's obviously her.
Many, many thanks

Hi Vanessa
Re last nights request (don't you sleep?):-
1. Where am I looking to put Williams name in and Handsworth as a location?
2. I'm not sure where you want me to start here - I'm sure my dad's name was Ernest Babington when he was born 1910 West Bromwich as I have his birth certificate. I thought his dad was Ernest Babington and his mum was Ellen Babington formerley Clarke because it said so on his birth certificate. It is now possible that his dad's name was John Babbington because I haven't been able to find a suitable Ernest and dad's marriage certificate (1933) said his dad was John, Rosie May's birth (1900) and marriage (1923) certificates also say her dad's name was John Babbington. I suppose it's possible that Ernest was his biological dad, then somehow a John got involved and was recorded as his father on his marriage certificate.
I thought Ellen, Rose May and Lilian were blood sisters I called them Aunties when I was a child and they, together with William, were all part of the 'family' for Christmas etc. When I was a child Ellen lived in Alfred Street, Handsworth (near William), Rose May was living in Union Street Smethwick with her husband (surname Owen) and children and Lilian was living off Windmill Lane, Smethwick around the same time.
I know that Ellen (Auntie Nellie) never married and when she had a son Philip Babbington my older brother told me she and dad argued about this.
3. I had been looking for Lilian as a Babbington without sucess until someone found a Clarke marriage to Charles Cartwright and births of all her children with the mothers maiden name Clarke, I recognised the names of my cousins.
4. William Clarke was known to me as Uncle Bill and I thought he was the older halfbrother of the 3 sisters and my dad because dad's mum was recorded as 'formerly Clarke'. I can remember dad and he being very close and dad telling me that Bill was his halfbrother. He is named as a witness on dad's marriage certificate together with 'Nellie Jane Babbington' (Ellen Jnr)
5. I haven't seen the actual census return for specifically Ellen Babington 1911, only the enumerators return (Babangton) on GR. I didn't know there were any other sites where I could look at the 1911 census. On the sepia coloured page Ellen is a widow and there isn't a section saying 'how long married' and 'how many children'
Hope this helps if there's anything else you need please do ask

Anthony, you need to be very careful with other peoples trees.

Their info is obviously wrong as you have proof with a birth cert.

The Ernest Babington born in 1893 was born in Cheshire, he is on the 1901 census with his widowed mother Ellen, granmother Jane Cheetham and other children.

His parents were Frederick Babington and Ellen Cheetham I think.

As we haven't found William Clarke with Ellen on the census I wonder if he was born after your father.

Births Dec 1913 (>99%)
CLARKE WILLIAM CLARKE W.bromwich 6b 1507

If the death for John in Sheffield is the correct John then obviously he isn't the father of either Lilian or your father.

I really think you need that death cert, hopefully the informant's details will help in your search.

Christine

Hi Rose
On 1st August you asked a few questions about William, I still don't know when & where he was born but today ChristineinPortugal has added to the thread his marriage in 1936 whick took place in Birmingham. You ask when and where the children were born, she also sent a pm re this, all born Birmingham Warwickshire between 1937 - 1944. I still don't know when & where he died.

Hi Dea
You're right, knowing who the people were at No 73 Watville Rd doesn't help but, thanks for finding them for me

Thank Jan for offering to ask your Sandwell contact to look at 34 White Rd in 1933, maybe it will be a dead end but I thought that dad might have been staying with a relative, maybe William as they were close and he was one of dad's witnesses or am I being too optomistic

Thanks Christine
I'd virtually reached the same conclusion myself, William & dad were very close, they worked at the same place and belonged to the same fishing club, so if they were only 3 years apart in age it would make a lot more sense. I still haven't managed to prove conclusively that John Thomas M Babbington is the correct one, I'm still working on that. I keep coming back to the family story that grandad Babington was killed in WW1 the same as my granddad Atkiss

This morning I have done as suggested, gone on to 1911 census and simply put in William Clarke and Handsworth as the place. I had 17 exact matches: -
1. William 1902, Born Sutton, Located West Brom - in hospital, is there anything else I can do with this one?
2. Ernest William 1900, Smethwick Staffordshire, West Brom - son age 11 of William James & Jane Elizabeth (married 27 yrs) @ 46 Booth St Handsworth
3. Reginald William 1895, Staffordshire Handsworth, Kings Norton, son age 16 of William & Alice Emily @ 34 Spring Rd Kings Heath
4. John William 1894 Portsmouth, West Brom - it's not him he's already been checked out
5. George William 1886, Warwick Birmingham, West Brom, son age 25 of Alfred Thomas and Maria (married 34 yrs) @ 106 Boulton Rd Handsworth
I haven't looked any further back because of the ages, George William would have been 48 when his youngest child was born

Hi Rose
Re John Thomas M Babbington & Ellen Kirby. I have taken a look at some of the trees on Ancestry:-
1. One one tree JTMB born 1865 London, death June Q 1901, married Ellen Kirby (1873 - 1937) in Aug 1893 in Warwickshire, they had Ellen Jane & Rosie May (exactly same dates as my Aunties) and in Sept of the same year married Elizabeth Carrington, they had an Ernest in 1892, slightly before the wedding.
2.Ellen Kirby born Mch Q 1873, death 1936 4/19 Alfred Street, Handsworth married JTMB in 1897, they had Ellen Jane & Rosie May. She went on to marry John Howard Clarke in 1902, they had Lilian in 1903 and William in 1904.
Try as I might I cannot find a marriage between John Babbington & Ellen Kirby, he married Emily Treaser Grigg or a marriage with John H Clarke.
Can anyone please take a look to see who else was living at 4/19 Alfred Street in 1936, they could be part of the family.

Hoping this is going to get me a few brownie points !!

4 back 19 Alfred st

1920- NELLIE Clarke

4 court 2 Alfred st

1922--Nellie Clarke

1930--Nellie Clarke
Nellie Jane Babbington

1935--Nellie Clarke
Ellen Jane Babbington
William Clarke

Nellie !! isn't at Alfred St before 1920 on the Electoral Roll .

Just hit me that she might also be going by Nellie if her daughter was and lo and behold !!

Leave this with you to digest

Catch up later with any further progress

bw
Vanessa

It would appear that some etails on the the tree on Ancestry are correct but they have Ernest born 1892 whereas your Ernest was born 1910.

The only thing to do is contact them and ask if they have certificates for the marriages.

On the birth certs you have though Ellen is formerly Clarke not Kirby.

Christine

Hi Vanessa, you're a star. I will have to digest this one.
I've just sent for a copy of the marriage certificate for Ellen Clarke 1905 West Bromwich, on the records there isn't a male name so I was hoping that it would reveal something about her marrying a Babington to tie up with dad's birth. Now, you find out that she was definitely still a Clarke at her death,so what about my poor dad! I've got his birth certificate so I don't see how he can be the 1892 one.
Thanks very much for sticking with me

Hi Christine
I think there was an Ernest born 1892/3 I've already looked at him some time ago and he's definitely not mine. It doesn't look at first glance that they do have any supporting evidence, I have sent a message and am awaiting a reply.
On the birth certificate I have for dad and Rosie May Ellen is formerly Clarke.
On the Lilley Weir tree on Ancestry there is a lot of detail about Ellen Jane and Rosie May Babbington, Lilian and William Clarke all seemingly with supporting evidence. I am awaiting a reply to the message I have sent.
Thanks for sticking with me

Hooray, I've made contact with my Auntie Lil's granddaughter on Ancestry, she's got lots of details so I'll keep you all informed as things develop. Not available a lot until the weekend but will try to keep up.

I should soon have the exact birth date for Lilian, the birth date for William and his death plus other interesting info as to how the mix of Babington/Babbington/Clarke came about. So please hold fire all you wonderful people who have been helping

Pleased to hear you've made contact with someone.

Please let us know the outcome.

It will be interesting to know if there are marriages we haven't been able to find.

Christine

Fantastic ! Now I can worry about my own searches !! Only joking !

Keep us informed

best wishes

Vanessa