Find Ancestors

Got the message! Re. the back-to-backs. It's a bit complicated and I don't fully understand to be homest. However, there seems to have been a house facing the road which was numbered as normal. Then you would have "back of" this house. The courts were each numbered and the houses then numbered individually.
I have found it only makes sense when I look at a census or electoral register.
Jan

Thanks Jan, I now understand about there being a house facing the street which was numbered as normal and there being other 'houses' behind it to give 3 Bk of 73 Watville Rd or 5/19 Alfred St but what I didn't get was 5 Court 6 Catherine St etc. Jonesey sent this as a pm for anyone who's interested: -

Probably the easiest way to describe such properties is that they were dwellings within courtyards off a street. 5 Court 6 Catherine St for example would be dwelling number 5 within courtyard number 6 in Catherine Street.

Generally speaking they would be small rather poorly constructed premises designed to provide cheap accommodation within urban communities. Birmingham and the Black Country had hundreds of such courts and dwellings.

There are many books in public libraries with illustrations of such dwellings


See also the posting from Jonesey on 18th July on page 2 of this thread

Must get myself off to visit the few remaining Birmingham back-to-backs! My great-grandmother lived along the same street in 1871 so would be very interesting.
jan

there was an enclosed courtyard behind No., 73 used to deliver papers there in 1953

the houses back of 73 wattville were a row of " two up two down " terraced houses as were the back houses in Alfred street which stood on the bank of the main Snow hill to wolverhampton line

Can anyone help please
On Ancestry - Military records - England, National Roll of the Great War 1914 - 1918, put E Babington in search, there is an E Babington L/Corporal MGC at the top of the list, there's a ref Z1197 if that helps.

How do I find out his first name and how do I take this further to help me in my search please

Still waiting for Ellen Jane Kirby's birth and Williams marriage certs.

Right found him.
No first name given but his address is 7 Accommodation Square, York Road Leeds. He volunteered in 1914 and was still with his unit in 1920. If you want a copy I will E mail it to you.

Sent

Thanks Astra
Could you email please, I think you have my email address.
Any idea how I find out what his first name was?
How can I take this further to help me in my search please?

Hi Anthony.
a journeyman is someone who has trained as an apprentice in a trade and works for someone else.
Jan

thanks Jan, it was worth a thought

It's arrived,! the marriage certificate for William Clarke (born 1913 Birmingham): -

17 Nov 1936, William Clarke and Muriel Lilian Hughes. both age 23. Batchelor & Spinster. Professions: William - Pedal Viewer (Cycle Works) Muriel - Hand Press Operator. Residences: 4 Bk 19 Alfred Street, Handsworth & 197 Nineveh Rd Handsworth. Fathers: William John Clarke (deceased) & Elijah Hughes. Profession of Fathers: Grinder & General Labourer

So was William John Clarke the same father of Lilian in 1903, her father was John Clarke on her birth certificate Profession: Glazier/Journeyman or is this yet another man in her mother Ellen's fertile imagination.

Was a journeyman like a travelling odd job man? If so didn't they sharpen knives etc? Could this be called a Grinder?

Who was the Ernest Babington recorded as the father on my father's birth certificate? Why was my father, born in 1910, between Lilian Clarke in 1903 and William Clarke in 1913, given the name Babington?

Mother Ellen is recorded on 1911 census as a widow with the surname Babangton, did she re-marry?

Lilian's granddaughter is still waiting for Ellen Kirby Clarke's birth certificate and Williams son is waiting for a copy of William's birth certificate.

Will we ever be sure who my grandparents were?

Hi Anthony,

I'm afraid you may never find out about the different fathers for the children.

It appears that they gave the name of the father on marriage cert as what they had been told because there was no father with them in 1911.

What was the occupation of John Babington, I seem to remember that was something similar, so Ellen could have given variations of that but as I said it's all speculation.

Christine

Hi Christine
Re the occupation of John Babington,: -
On Rosie May's birth cert (1900) John was an Edge Tool Grinder.
Previously, on the 1881 census John at age 16 was a Street Orderly Tender (Scay), on 1891 census age 26 he was a File Grinder and in 1901 age 35 he was a Shovel Belter.
I probably need BrummieJan to tell me what a Street Orderly Tender (Scay) is.
So nothing really conclusive there Christine.

On Lilian's birth cert her father John Clarke was a a)Glazier b) Journeyman.
On my dad's his father Ernest Babington was a Cycle polisher.

Good Morning and what a wonderful morning it is!

It's arrived at last, the birth certificate for Ellen Kirby Clarke: -

No: 232
When & Where born: 30 Sept 1875, 86 Northwood Street, Birmingham
Name: Ellen Kirby.
Father: Edwin Clarke Mother; Sussana Elizabeth Clarke formerly Kirby
Occupation of Father: Press Tool Marker
Signature etc: X The mark of Sussana Elizabeth Clarke, Mother

Not yet conclusive that this is my grandmother but it's looking extremely likely

I will be working hard to find a definite connection between her and my family. I've found 6 siblings and am hoping to put them on the tree today so if, in the meantime, anyone can find any links at all I would be grateful.

I still need a birth record for John Babington/Babbington, a marriage between him and Ellen would be good but I don't think that there is one.

Thanks to all my very kind helpers, maybe this is the break we've been waiting for.

My cousin is expecting William Clarkes birth cert to be despatched on 27 Sept.

Congrats! Anthony,

It has obviously brightened up 'your' day !

Best of luck with the continuing search.

Dea x

Fab news Anthony - your family aren't the easiest are they? Might be a snail's pace but at least going forwards!
Jan

Hi Anthony.
Had you noticed that Ellen´s sister Louisa had the middle name Hughes?
Just coincidence or could there be a connection?
In 1891 the brothers & sisters are all living together at 4house 42 court. Summer Lane.
Louisa Head single 22
Elizabeth sister single 18
Edwin brother single 17
Ellen sister single 15
Incidentally, Northwood Street where Ellen was born was where Flora Sewells family lived for much of their time.
Marion

n

Pleased to hear you've finally got details of the birth.

I'm confused with Marion's post above, have read through the rest of the thread again and can't see any mention of Summer Lane or Flora Sewells but there are a lot of deleted posts.

The family don't seem to be on Ancestry in 1891 unless they're mistranscribed.

Christine