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Graham, I would probably spend the fiver - unless of course you can get to Edinburgh and view it free!

rootgatherer
Still stuck with this one......LDS site Father: John Shaw Mother: Isabella McQuhae lists children as Jane Brown Shaw b 22 Jan1823..Martha Shaw & Nicolas Barbour Shaw both born10 Jan1828 all at Kelton,Kirkcudbright but no mention of my Isabella! ...Will& Testament search shows 8 April 1848 John Shaw Writer in Cupar Cupar Sheriff Court Ref Sc 20/50/18 just wonder if its worth chancing a fiver to view the image!!
Regards
Graham

Rootgatherer

Dare I air more on this subject as have just found from LDS site that John Shaw & Isabella McQuhae had 3 Children viz :-
Jane Brown Shaw b 22 Jan 1823 Kelton, Kirkcudbright
Martha Shaw b10 Jan 1828 "
Nicolas Barbour Shaw b10 Jan 1828 "
But..no mention of my Isabella reputed to have been born in Castle Douglas!!!!
For the record have posted an enquiry on Curiosfox site also pinged off a request to LDS so now wonder what that will bring in?
Trust you are well
Graham

So, it's back to the drawing board, Graham. Hope you find that he has left a will - you would hope a Solicitor would!

Further to Isabella Shaw: have had a reply from Scotspeople confirming father John Shaw was a Writer(ie solicitor/lawyer) and mother Isabella's maiden name was Mc Quhae or Mcquhat or even McIntire!! it appears even they can't be sure so am still seeking to find just where she was born.As father was a solicitor perhaps some wills/documents might produce some clues.... the plot thickens!!
Regards
Graham

Rootgatherer Mother's christian name Isabella and 1881 Glasgow Census shows birthplace as Castle Douglas

Graham, what was her mother's christian name please?

Isabella's mother maiden name can't read the marriage cert but looks like''McDahae'' and am pretty certain that she originated from somewhere near Dumfries

Graham - could Isabella's mother's name be Houston on the marriage certificate please?

Have a look at these and see what you think.

1851 Census.

Name: Isabella Shaw
Age: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1837
Relationship: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Wellis
Gender: Female
Where born: Borgue, Kirkcudbright
Parish Number: 858
Civil parish: Borgue
County: Kirkcudbrightshire
Address: Blackbreys
ED: 4
Page: 2 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 6
Line: 7
Roll: CSSCT1851_211
Household Members: Name Age
John Shaw 44 Mason, b. Borgue, Kirkcudbright
Wellis Shaw 44 b. Borgue, Kirkcudbright
Isabella Shaw 14
Mary Shaw 11 Daughter, b. Borgue, Kirkcudbright
Jannet Shaw 9 Daughter, b. Borgue, Kirkcudbright
John Shaw 7 Son, b. Borgue, Kirkcudbright
Samuel Houston 60 Brother-in-law, REPORTER, b. Borgue, Kirkcudbright

Source Citation: Parish: Borgue; ED: 4; Page: 7; Line: 2; Roll 654; Year: 1851


IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0

JOHN SHAW Pedigree
Male Family
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages:
Spouse: WILLIE HOUSTON Family
Marriage: 10 NOV 1835 Borgue, Kirkcudbright, Scotland



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Messages:
Form submitted by a member of the LDS Church. The form lists the submitter's name and address and may include source information. The address may be outdated. Details vary. To find the form, you must know the batch and sheet number.



These are all submitted records and give the mother's name as William Houston.

Results for: British Isles
Father: John Shaw, Mother: Willie Houston
Exact Spelling: Off
[
International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 4
Select records to download - (50 maximum)

1. ISABELLA SHAW - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 02 SEP 1836 Borgue, Kirkcudbright, Scotland

2. MARY SHAW - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 06 JUN 1839 Borgue, Kirkcudbright, Scotland

3. JANET SHAW - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 30 DEC 1841 Borgue, Kirkcudbright, Scotland

4. JOHN SHAW - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 01 OCT 1843 Borgue, Kirkcudbright, Scotland


1841 census

Name: John Shaw
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: abt 1807
Gender: Male
Where born: Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland

Civil parish: Borgue
County: Kirkcudbrightshire
Address: Black Crigs
Occupation: Mason
Parish Number: 858
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Andrew Houston 80
Isabela Houston 75
Samuel Houston 50
Agness Houston 15
John Shaw 34
Willie Shaw 34
Isabela Shaw 4
Mary Shaw 2

Source Citation: Parish: Borgue; ED: 1; Page: 9; Line: 720; Roll ; Year: 1841

1861

Name: Willie Shaw
Age: 54
Estimated birth year: abt 1807
Relationship: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Borgue, Stewartry
Registration Number: 858
Registration district: Borgue
Civil parish: Borgue
County: Kirkcudbrightshire
Address: Blackbrigs
Occupation: Masons Widow
ED: 4
Household schedule number: 37
Line: 21
Roll: CSSCT1861_146
Household Members: Name Age
Willie Shaw 54
John Shaw 17
John Fergusson 22

Source Citation: Parish: Borgue; ED: 4; Page: 7; Line: 21; Roll CSSCT1861_146; Year: 1861.



So, looks like that John Shaw died sometime between 1851 and 1861 and it looks like he was a Mason when he died.

I don't know that I would rule out that Isabella as yours just yet. It could be that your Isabella named her second son for her MOTHER as she didn't fancy landing a daughter with the name William! I would be tempted to spend a few credits on SP looking for a marriage of the Mary or Janet just to compare the parent details with those you have for your Isabella.

Also, if you can find Brogue on an old map, I think that you may well find that Castle Douglas is the nearest "big" town. The old atlas that I have looked at places Castle Douglas in Kirkcudbrightshire which, of course, is right next to Dumfries and Galloway.



EDIT

Sorry, forgot to say, your apology is accepted - my comment was meant as guidance rather than rebuke. I wouldn't want to put people off using the boards. That would be cutting off my nose to spite my face as I enjoy trying to help.

Rootgatherer/Gael thanks for all your help apologies for my ignorance have marriage cert John Duncan&Isabella Shaw Glasgow Aug 9 1859 644/06 0342 but cannot decipher fatherJohn Shaw profession(looks like Writer) or mother,s maiden name.Glasgow 1881 Census 844/06 007/06 shows Isabella,s place of birth Castle Douglas Gallowayshire An OPR 858/0020 0050( Page 24) Borgue Dumfries Galloway states '' Lawful daughter of John Shaw & William Houston was born at Blackbriggs of Mickle Isle 2nd Sept 1836 '' am puzzled by this fact. Regards Graham

Possible births ???

None found for 1830's nor a possible father as William.

Name: Isabella Shaw
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 09 Feb 1841
Baptism/Christening Place: , GLASGOW, LANARK, SCOTLAND
Father's Name: John Shaw
Mother's Name: Mary Mckendrick
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11975-1
System Origin: Scotland-ODM
Source Film Number: 994181
Reference Number:
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Name: Isabella Shaw
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 06 Jul 1842
Baptism/Christening Place: , GLASGOW, LANARK, SCOTLAND
Father's Name: Neil Ritchie Shaw
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Dalgleish
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11975-1
System Origin: Scotland-ODM
Source Film Number: 994181
Reference Number:
Collection: Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

Graham, it would have saved a bit of effort had you given all the information that you had!

Your thread, http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1234003, on the Records Office Board (posted yesterday) gave this information.

"Seeking any Info on John Duncan & Jane Murray parents of Phanuel Duncan b Oct 15 1792 @Benholm,Kincardine,Scotland so far have not found any records that indicate where(and if !) they married Graham Duncan"

It would have made it easier to find census records - had we known that John's father was named Phanuel and that John may have come from Kincardineshire (rather than Glasgow where he married).

1841 - from Freecen

Piece: SCT1841/312 Place: Montrose -Angus Enumeration District: 3
Civil Parish: Montrose Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 28 Page: 11
Address: Hedderwick



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Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
DUNCAN Phanuel M 45 Farmer Outside Census County (1841)
DUNCAN Susanna F 40 Outside Census County (1841)
DUNCAN John M 10 Outside Census County (1841)
DUNCAN Ann F 8 Angus
DUNCAN Geo M 5 Angus
CLARK John M 14 Agricultural Labourer Outside Census County (1841)
MOIR Ann F 20 Female Servant Outside Census County (1841

That looks like John, Gael. On the 1881 census his birth place is St. Cyrus, Angus. Kincardinshire is next county so that looks good.

This could be him in 1851 (1881, he was a Cloth Manufacturer)

Name: John Duncan
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1832
Relationship: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: St Tyons, Kincardineshire
Parish Number: 644/2
Civil parish: Gorbals
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 32 Cleland St
Occupation: Drapers Assistant
ED: 36
Page: 17 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 72
Line: 17
Roll: CSSCT1851_164
Household Members: Name Age
Davd Ralston 58
Flora Ralston 51
David Ralston 23
Robt Ralston 18
John Duncan 19
Alexr Mitchell 18
George Watt 24

Source Citation: Parish: Gorbals; ED: 36; Page: 17; Line: 17; Roll 1134; Year: 1851

What about this one Rootgatherer - Phanuel is the oldest son - the birthdate is possible making him 28 when he married.

Don't know how far KINCARDINE is from where he was married.

Name: John Duncan
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 25 Dec 1831
Baptism/Christening Place: SAINT CYRUS,KINCARDINE,SCOTLAND
Birth Date: 23 Nov 1831
Father's Name: Phanuel Duncan
Mother's Name: Susan Graham
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11267-5
System Origin: Scotland-ODM
Source Film Number: 993325
Reference Number:
Collection: Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

1881 Census

Name: Phanuel Duncan
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1862
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Isabella
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanark Shire
Registration Number: 644/6
Registration district: St Rollox
Civil parish: Glasgow St David
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 36
Occupation: Assistant Draper
ED: 7
Household schedule number: 23
Line: 8
Roll: cssct1881_228
Household Members: Name Age
John Duncan 49 b. St Cyrus, Angus
Isabella Duncan 42 b. Castle Douglas, Gallowshire
Phanuel Duncan 19
William Duncan 18
Ann Duncan 22

Source Citation: Parish: Glasgow St David; ED: 7; Page: 5; Line: 8; Roll cssct1881_228; Year: 1881.

Suspect that Isabella's father was William - fairly common when naming a son for maternal grandfather (or uncle) to give his surname as a middle name. Would expect that the first son was named for John's dad.

Rootgatherer - That's what I thought.

Can you work anything out from the two children?

The original marriage entry on Scotlandspeople should give parents names. It will also give their ages.

No mention of parents Rootgatherer in pilots

Groom's Name: John Duncan
Bride's Name: Isabella Shaw
Marriage Date: 09 Aug 1859
Marriage Place: Blythswood,Glasgow,Lanark,Scotland
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M11927-1
System Origin: Scotland-ODM
Source Film Number: 6035516
Reference Number:
Collection: Scotland Marriages, 1561-1910