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Frederick Besant

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Chevaun Report 27 Oct 2010 21:43

Sylvia, I think it is possible that he lied about his age , although my grandfather (his son) is certain that he was 55!
Thank you all so much for your help, I am more grateful than you know, have found out more on here in ten minutes than I have in weeks by myself!


Chevaun Report 27 Oct 2010 21:49

Hi Shirley,
I'm not sure if this is the correct Kathleen registered in Kent as I beleive that Kathleen had at least one sister, called Doll? I'm sorry my info is so vague...


Chevaun Report 27 Oct 2010 21:53

If it helps, Kathleens baby (Kathleen) was born out of wedlock and was brought up by Kathleens sister (Doll) also in the Kensington area.


Chevaun Report 27 Oct 2010 22:06

Shirley, there is a rumour that Frederick was in one of the wars, although it seemed to be a bit of a family joke, so am not sure if it was because he wasn't in it for long... This could indeed be him that you found here on the WW1 Royal Navy records.
I will try to find out some more information from my grandfather tomorrow and update details on here then.
Thanks again,


SylviaInCanada Report 27 Oct 2010 22:07


The problem with Cis and Doll is that they are both probably family nicknames, which may or may not match their "real" names

Doll could be a shortening for Dorothy ....... but equally it could come from someone saying "what a doll" or "she looks like a doll"when she was a baby

Cis could be Cissie, or a form of "Sis" as in sister, etc etc etc

I sometimes tell the story of one of my husband's ex-colleagues.

He was known all his life as Max ............ because that was the name his parents called him when he was in utero

After he was born, he was given 3 forenames ......... none of which had any connection with Max

But his parents continued to call him Max, so did all his friends

If I went looking for him in official records, I would be completely unable to find him, even though I know where and when he was born, and where he lived for almost 50 years fo his life!


Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 27 Oct 2010 22:14

She is the only plain Kathleen Clements born in Kent for around that time and in the same area as Rochester
Take a look at FreeBMD from 1901 to 1910


Chevaun Report 27 Oct 2010 22:16

I know Sylvia, the name information is very vague for my great grandparents siblings, which makes everything so much more difficult as you have quite rightly pointed out. I'm still unsure though whether the Clements family that Shirley found in Kent is the correct one as it makes no mention of a sister and I definately know that Kathleen had at least one sister...
Thanks again for all your help,

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 27 Oct 2010 22:32

The marriage cert should name her father so can check back again on the 1911 census


Chevaun Report 27 Oct 2010 22:33

Hi Shirley,
I just tried to sign up to the site you mentioned but lost all info that I had already entered when I clicked terms and conditions, which was annoying, so will give it another shot tomorrow evening... I will look at the records you mentioned then.
Maybe the aunt Doll my grandfather talks about was not really Kathleens sister? I'm grasping at straws here but can't understand why another daughter is not mentioned on the census...
Does anyone know of anything else I can ask my grandfather that may help me make progress in this area?
Many Thanks,

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 27 Oct 2010 22:38

Name: Dorothy May Clements
Year of Registration: 1903
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Medway (1837-1941)
County: Kent
Volume: 2a
Page: 698
could be known as Doll

Doesnt come up though on the 1911 census.

think you need age and dads name from the marriage cert for Kathleen


Chevaun Report 27 Oct 2010 22:48

Thanks Shirley, that could well be Doll as there is the Kent connection again.
Can you advise how I would check whether Kathleens father was mentioned on her Marriage certificate? It would be good to confirm his name...


patchem Report 27 Oct 2010 22:55

Fathers' names are on marriage certificate - that's why you are advised to buy it to help confirm correct person.

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 27 Oct 2010 22:59

You have to buy it !!
costs £9.25 from

you register free . tick the box in that asks if the GRO ref if known.
this is what you need copied from page 1 on this thread from Sylvia
GRO ref
Marriages Mar 1930

Besant Frederick W Clements Kensington 1a 279
Clements Kathleen Besant Kensington 1a 279

you only need to put one of the names in ,so order for Kathleen Clements OR Frederick W Besant
year 1930
quarter March
Reg district Kensington
Vol nos 1a
Page 279

ONLY buy from the GRO as other sites rip you off with the price ,they buy fron the GRO and pass on to you at an inflated cost!


Chevaun Report 27 Oct 2010 23:00

Thanks Patricia, Probably a very stupid question but where would I purchase the Marriage certificate from? As you can probably tell I'm very new to all of this!
Any further advice would be gratly appreciated.
Many Thanks,


Chevaun Report 27 Oct 2010 23:02

Sorry Patricia, have just seen Shirleys update, thanks anyway.
Thank you also Shirley for your continued support.


Chevaun Report 27 Oct 2010 23:03

Sorry Shirley, Do I need to know what the GRO ref is? If so where would I find it?

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 27 Oct 2010 23:05

Have given it to you above.- we crossed posts

Joy Kentish Maid

Joy Kentish Maid Report 27 Oct 2010 23:08

This is the site for ordering certificates
- copy and paste -

and the GRO ref will be found in the free BMD site -
copy and paste -


Chevaun Report 27 Oct 2010 23:12

Thank you Shirley, you are a star. Will order it first thing tomorrow. Excited!


Chevaun Report 27 Oct 2010 23:14

Thank you Joy for simplyfying the process for me, I'm sure I will get better at this with practice!