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Frederick Besant

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


Chevaun Report 15 Nov 2010 21:11

I've just recieved the copy of the Census, Thank you ever so much for taking the time to email it over to me.


patchem Report 15 Nov 2010 21:27

How old was Kathleen on the marriage certificate?
(Or when did she die?)


Chevaun Report 15 Nov 2010 21:39

Hi patchem,
Kathleens age on the marriage certificate was 23 in 1930.
Does that match with anything?


Chevaun Report 15 Nov 2010 21:53

I think that I have found the record of Josephs death on freeBMD. I searched from March 1912 - December 1929 and it was the only one that came up in Kensington, my concern is that the age at death was 65 and that doesn't fit with the age on the 1911 given as 48...
Does anyone have any suggestions? I just don't want to waste £10 on the wrong certificate...
Thanks in advance.


patchem Report 15 Nov 2010 22:50

Highly speculative, 1911 census:
PARRY, Ann Head Widow F 69 1842 Aston Wellington Salop
PARRY, George Son Single M 40 1871 Estate Woodman Wrekin Wellington Salop
xxx CLEMENTS, Ross Daughter Married 5 years F 33 1878 Uppington Wellington Salop
PARRY, Lizzie Daughter Single F 27 1884 Uppington Wellington Salop PARRY, Frank Walter Son Single M 26 1885 Agricultural Engine Driver Uppington Wellington Salop
xxx CLEMENTS, Kathleen Granddaughter F 3 1908 Hove Sussex
RG number: RG14 Piece: 16064 Reference: RG14PN16064 RG78PN991 RD349 SD1 ED20 SN51
Registration District: Atcham Sub District: Condover Enumeration District:
20 Parish: Uppington
Address: 1 Uppington Wellington Shropshire County: Shropshire

Ross Clements is not Ross, but I cannot tell what it is on the original.
However, on previous censuses this family has a daughter Annie who is 3 in 1881.

Looking for Clement/Parry marriages around 1906 gives only this:
Marriages Jun 1906
Clements George Atcham 6a 1467
PARRY Annie Jane Atcham 6a 1467
so that is a George.

So, correct name for Father, occupation unknown, wrong area. If correct family then looking for a married George without wife and Kathleen in 1911.


If he is actually an engine driver, driving the Flying Scotsman, or whatever, he could be anywhere in the country in 1911?


patchem Report 15 Nov 2010 23:05

Do not know if he is connected to previous posting, but here is a George, from Kent:
CLEMENTS, George Married Sergeant 30 1881 Engine Driver Kent Maidstone

RG number: RG14 Piece: 3123 Reference: RG14PN3123 RD34 SD2 ED13 SN9999 Registration District: Farnham Sub District:
Aldershot Enumeration District: 13 Parish: Aldershot
Address: Stanhope Lines Aldershot County: Surrey

However, there is the possibility that he is married to an Ada, so will keep on looking.


Chevaun Report 15 Nov 2010 23:08

Thanks patchem for taking the time to research and post all of that information.
I have to admit I'm confused by it, there appears to be a lot to take in and for some reason it's throwing me a bit...
I think that it's because of the Parry name, would that have been a maiden name?
Sorry to be a pain.


Chevaun Report 15 Nov 2010 23:13

Patchem, your last post seems to fit more with what I have been told about my great grandmother Kathleen Clements and that is that she originated from Kent and obviously the Engine Driver fits with the entry on Kathleens marriage certificate for fathers occupation.


Chevaun Report 15 Nov 2010 23:14

Oh and I'm not sure what you meant about the Ada name, was there previously a different wifes name given?


MarieCeleste Report 15 Nov 2010 23:26

Chevaun, no problem looking up any further 1911, but Patchem seems to be well on the case!

Regarding the age on the death cert - you obviously get a variance taking into account the actual date of birth and when census was taken, and also when he died. For example, he may have died not long before a birthday so would have been 65, not 66.

(But please don't blame me if it's wrong!)


Chevaun Report 15 Nov 2010 23:46

Thanks for the explanation MarieCeleste, given that information I'll buy the certificate.
It was the only death of a Joseph Besant that came up for the Kensington area and it said that it was a 99% match, so I doubt it can be far wrong...
I'll be in touch again regarding the 1911 census if needed.
Thanks again for all your help this evening,


Chevaun Report 16 Nov 2010 14:16

Hi there, can anyone give me some advice?
I am trying to search for my great grandmothers (Kathleen Besant, maiden name Clements) death record. I know that she did in the early to mid 1990's, I think '94 - '95. When I enter the details into freeBMD it tells me that the end search date can not be later than 1984...
How do I search deaths after this time?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Salve Report 16 Nov 2010 15:42

View Record Name Birth Year Death Registration Month/Year District Inferred County Order Record View Image
View Record

PreviewName: Georgina Kathleen Besant
Birth Date: 20 Sep 1897
Death Registration Month/Year: Jun 1994
Age at death (estimated): 96
Registration district: Wandsworth
Inferred County: London
Register number: B77A
District and Subdistrict: 2561B
Entry number: 1
Take a look at the picture to see even more.
See more

Georgina Kathleen Besant 1897 Jun 1994 Wandsworth London
View Record

PreviewName: Kathleen Besant
Birth Date: 6 Jan 1903
Death Registration Month/Year: Nov 1992
Age at death (estimated): 89
Registration district: Watford
Inferred County: Hertfordshire
Volume: 10
Page: 850
Take a look at the picture to see even more.
See more

Kathleen Besant 1903 Nov 1992 Watford Hertfordshire
View Record

PreviewName: Kathleen Barbara Besant
Birth Date: 31 Jan 1923
Death Registration Month/Year: Apr 2001
Age at death (estimated): 78
Registration district: Poole
Inferred County: Dorset
Register number: B31E
District and Subdistrict: 4311B
Entry number: 49
Take a look at the picture to see even more.
See more

Kathleen Barbara Besant 1923 Apr 2001 Poole Dorset


Salve Report 16 Nov 2010 15:44

Could it be any of these?


Chevaun Report 16 Nov 2010 16:54

Hi Salve,
Yes you have found her, she is the Watford entry. I hadn't realised that it was as early as 1992 but I'm 100% that that is her.... Thank you so much, your help is very,very much appreciated.
How did you manage to get the details up? I would like to purchase the Certificate.
Thanks again,


Salve Report 16 Nov 2010 20:51

You are welcome.
I found the info on Ancestry.


Chevaun Report 17 Nov 2010 18:36

Hi, can anyone help?
I am stuck on Fredericks father - Joseph Besant. With the help of others on this thread I have managed to find a Joseph Besant from Uphavon, Wilts and view his family entry on the 1911 Census, I am almost certain that I have the correct person because he was the only Besant living in the area that would connect him to my gene line. I do have an issue that I can't quite work out, the problem is that on the 1911, Joseph is recorded as having three children, two of whom are alive, both male, my great grandfather is recorded as Phillip, instead of Frederick but that would fit as I know that Phil was his nickname, my problem is when I try to corroborate my findings with the Joseph Besant from Uphavon, Wilts on the 1901, it would appear that Josephs wife is no longer called Annie and that they have a daughter...
I'm very confused, is anybody able to access both the 1911 and 1901 and give me their opinion?
Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am truly stuck!


MarieCeleste Report 17 Nov 2010 19:45

Chevaun, I really think the 1901 is a mistake and she is Annie (maybe her full name is Susanna - just a guess).

In 1891, she is definitely Annie:

BEASANT, Joseph Head Married M 29 1862 Policeman Uphaven Wiltshire
BEASANT, Annie F Wife Married F 34 1857 Ireland Cork
BEASANT, William T Son Single M 8 1883 London
BEASANT, Mary F Daughter Single F 5 1886 London
GOBLE, John Boarder Single M 26 1865 Policeman Mereworth Kent
BAINES, Charles A Boarder Single M 15 1876 Groom London

RG number: RG12 Piece: 39 Folio: 190 Page: 50

Registration District: Fulham Sub District: St Paul Hammersmith
Enumeration District: 27 Ecclesiastical Parish: St Matthew

Civil Parish: Hammersmith Municipal Borough:
Address: 34, Woodstock Road, Hammersmith County:

** Name is spelled Bessant on original.

** Joseph certainly varied his career!

** On this one you can see Mary from the 1901 and William from the 1911 together.


Chevaun Report 18 Nov 2010 10:59

Thanks for looking into that for me, MarieCeleste.
I am still very confused though...
Can you tell me what original you are talking about when you say that the spelling was Bessant? Do you mean the Census? This may answer why I am having such difficulty on freeBMD trying to find a match for a Joseph Besant and an Annie...
Also on the 1911 it says that Joseph and Annie had 3 children, 2 of whom survived but my grandfather is adamant that his father Frederick (Phillip) had an older sister, who was alive when he was growing up... which would have meant that she was stll alive in 1940's...
I f you or anyone else can advise on what they think with regards to this then I would be most grateful...
I'm actually wondering whether she (Mary) wasn't mentioned on the 1911 as she had left home???


MarieCeleste Report 18 Nov 2010 18:11

Chevaun, the original I mentioned is the scan of the original census form, as opposed to the transcription of that document - the transcriber has mis-spelled the word name when copying the information.

In 1891 the name has been spelled with an extra "s" - whether that is enumerator error I can't say, just that there will always be variations in names on census records mainly due to levels of literacy in those days.

Regarding Mary - would she not be that older sister?

The census returns were done by household, not by family. If she had left home (most likely) then she would be recorded elsewhere, under whatever name she was known by - she may have been married by then.