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Hi Rob
Ihave just typed you a long reply and it disappeared before being sent.
My for not replying immediately - we have visitors from America staying
with us.

I have in my possession, obtained from the LMA a copy of the Admission
Register 1878 of The StrandUnion Children's Establishment, which reads
as follows:
No: 1608
Name: Bayley Henry (in the 1881 Census he is Henry Bailey)
Age: 8
Parish to which Char eable: St.Giles
Date of Admission: 24 May 1878
Whether at Workhouse School before, and how long: No
Whether in any other Schoolbefore, and how long: Infant
Date of Discharge: Blank
Observations: Transferred to New Book

I have had a search done at LMA by their researchers and thisNew Book
could not be found. A friend in London also searched but it seems that this particular book ismissing.
I suppose the only course one could follow would be to read through the Minutes of meetingsof the Board of The Children'sEstablishment, Edmonton, to see whether Henry Bailey was discharged, and when.
I know he" walked to London" soon after he was confirmed.
If I could perhaps find a Henry Bailey who was born, or perhaps lived at some stage in Hornsey, it might help, as the address on the 1884/5 photo I have of a brass band, of which Henry Bailey is a member, is 122, Turnpike Lane, Hornsey, London.
Lorraine

If the Henry Bailey at the Strand Poor Union School in Edmonton is the correct one, a way forward might be to look at the Union records held at the LMA. They seem to hold admission and discharge records for the relevent periods. There may be notes about from where/who he was admitted and to where/who he was discharged (possibly other notes too), which may help confirm/disprove whether he is the right one.
It might explain why an Edmonton bapism can't be found, as they baptised "on site". Unfortunately, it looks like the Union baptism records for that period don't survive.
I had hoped to be able to search amongst the LMA Poor Records on Ancestry, but they are either not on there yet, or a filed in an unexpected place.

i really hope you find it
Maddie

Thanks you for the baptism records, Maddie. They will narrow down my search
Lorraine

Thank you for the above baptisms, Maddie. This is narrowing my options a lot.

Lorraine

these are the nearest
Name: Henry George Bailey
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1873
Baptism Date: 14 May 1873
Father's Name: Daniel Bailey
Mother's Name: Margaret Bailey
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Pancras Old St Pancras
Borough: Camden

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London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Henry Charles Bailey
Name: Henry Charles Bailey
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1876
Baptism Date: 24 Feb 1876
Father's Name: Charles Henry Bailey
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Bailey
Parish or Poor Law Union: Paddington St Mary Magdalene
Borough: Westminster

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Henry George Bailey
Name: Henry George Bailey
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1876
Baptism Date: 18 Sep 1876
Father's Name: Benjamin Bailey
Mother's Name: Sarah Bailey
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Pancras
Borough: Camden

Hi everybody
Thank you so far - has anybody got access to the baptism records for Pancras? Any Henry Bailey who was born in Pancras 1872-1874.I am trying to find possible father named Charles

Lorraine

Lorrine
there is this birth ???
BMD Search result details

Civil Registration event: Birth
Name: BAILEY, Henry George
Registration District: Help Pancras
County: London
Year of Registration: 1873
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Mother's Maiden Name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume No: Help 1B
Page No: Help 59
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View original image

© findmypast.co.uk

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Lorraine,

I think this is the Davies family 10 years prior;

1881 England Census
about Aurther Davis
Name: Aurther Davis
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James Davis
Mother's Name: Emma Davis
Gender: Male
Where born: Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: So Hornsey
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address: 15 Howard Rd
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Plumber

Registration district: Edmonton
Sub-registration district: Hornsey
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
James Davis 54
Emma Davis 47 >> born Southampton
Aurther Davis 21
Mable Davis 14
Henery Davis 10 >> born St Lukes
Elizabeth Allan 50
Annie Allaway 23

Dee x

The 1891 Census says that Emma Bailey/Davies has a son aged 19,
labourer, and lived in Shakespeare St, Hornsey, Edmonton.
Can anybody trace any information about this Henry Bailey
after 1891? My grandfather Henry Bailey left England for
South Africa on 19th June,1897 for the durations of the Anglo/Boer War, which ender in 1902, and settled here after the war for the rest of his life.
If a marriage or death of this Henry Bailey can be found in England, then it is not my grandfather.
As far as hisarmy records are concerned, I notice that on 7th April Maddie
gave the same reference no. of Henry Bailey's army records as WO 97/4288/65 Attestation soldier number 10062/
I notice it stated Attestation corps: Medical Staff Corps Report transcription error.
In the original 4-page attestation document I have in my possession
he joined the Medical Staff Corps in 1894 but the name was officially
changed to Royal Army Medical Corps in c1899 and Henry Bailey was appointed Lance Corporal on 6th October, 1899 RAMC. He was discharged at the termination of his first period of limited engagement on 19th June, 1905 asL/Sgt Henry Bailey. Could there possibly by any further documents available at the National Archives about himregarding his duty in the Royal Army Medical Corps?
I know he received two medals for duty in South Africa: 1900-1-2.
Queen's and clasps Transvaal Cape Colony
King's and clasps 1901-1902
Would there be any record in the Medals section at the Archives?
As he completed his 12 years limited engagement, did he qualify for a pension?
Would somebody be kind enough, if possible to find more information about him through Ancestry. or FindmyPast?

Over the last ten years I have ordered more than twenty birth certificates of
possible Henry Baileys, but none have fitted into his profile.
I have also in my possession a marriage certifcate, which I ordered, which reads:
Marriage
1873 St. Pancras Church - (Married in the Parish Church)
date: 29 March 1873
Charles Bailey full age Bachelor Servant 19 Mabledon Place
Father: Charles Bailey Servant
Louisa White full age Spinster - 19 Mabledon Place
Father John White Builder Deceased.
Witnesses William Green Lucy White

The above address is very close to 35, Burton Crescent, the address givenby Henry Bailey as his father Charles Bailey, in his Attestation document dated 1893.
Would somebody be so kind as to try and find a Henry Bailey, born in the Pancras area any time after the above marriage of Henry and Louisa White in 1873?
Perhaps in Ancestry.co.uk or Findmymast.

Lorraine

The 1891 Census says that Emma Bailey/Davies has a son aged 19,
labourer, and lived in Shakespeare St, Hornsey, Edmonton.
Can anybody trace any information about this Henry Bailey
after 1891? My grandfather Henry Bailey left England for
South Africa on 19th June,1897 for the durations of the Anglo/Boer War, which ender in 1902, and settled here after the war for the rest of his life.
If a marriage or death of this Henry Bailey can be found in England, then it is not my grandfather.
As far as hisarmy records are concerned, I notice that on 7th April Maddie
gave the same reference no. of Henry Bailey's army records as WO 97/4288/65 Attestation soldier number 10062/
I notice it stated Attestation corps: Medical Staff Corps Report transcription error.
In the original 4-page attestation document I have in my possession
he joined the Medical Staff Corps in 1894 but the name was officially
changed to Royal Army Medical Corps in c1899 and Henry Bailey was appointed Lance Corporal on 6th October, 1899 RAMC. He was discharged at the termination of his first period of limited engagement on 19th June, 1905 asL/Sgt Henry Bailey. Could there possibly by any further documents available at the National Archives about himregarding his duty in the Royal Army Medical Corps?
I know he received two medals for duty in South Africa: 1900-1-2.
Queen's and clasps Transvaal Cape Colony
King's and clasps 1901-1902
Would there be any record in the Medals section at the Archives?
As he completed his 12 years limited engagement, did he qualify for a pension?
Would somebody be kind enough, if possible to find more information about him through Ancestry. or FindmyPast?

Over the last ten years I have ordered more than twenty birth certificates of
possible Henry Baileys, but none have fitted into his profile.
I have also in my possession a marriage certifcate, which I ordered, which reads:
Marriage
1873 St. Pancras Church - (Married in the Parish Church)
date: 29 March 1873
Charles Bailey full age Bachelor Servant 19 Mabledon Place
Father: Charles Bailey Servant
Louisa White full age Spinster - 19 Mabledon Place
Father John White Builder Deceased.
Witnesses William Green Lucy White

The above address is very close to 35, Burton Crescent, the address givenby Henry Bailey as his father Charles Bailey, in his Attestation document dated 1893.
Would somebody be so kind as to try and find a Henry Bailey, born in the Pancras area any time after the above marriage of Henry and Louisa White in 1873?
Perhaps in Ancestry.co.uk or Findmymast.

Lorraine

there is this birthfor Harry Burgess
BMD Search result details

Civil Registration event: Birth
Name: BURGESS, Harry
Registration District: Help Pancras
County: London
Year of Registration: 1871
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Mother's Maiden Name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume No: Help 1B
Page No: Help 38
Printer friendly version

View original image

© findmypast.co.uk

Hi Lorraine

The 1891 census says Emma Bailey /Davies is a wife married and she is a Nurse.
Sue

I've been PMing Lorraine, because I couldn't add to the thread.

This family made me look because the address is the 1 Henry Bailey gave. Now we can find no census for the younger children after this.

Charlotte maybe dies in 1884 and Edmund most likely in 1900. There are older children which I have managed to trace...... no younger siblings with them.
I also can't find the father in 1891.

We're thinking this maybe Henry Bailey and he changed his name.

Can anyone else please see if we are missing something please;

1881 England Census
about Harry Burgess
Name: Harry Burgess
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Edmond Burgess
Mother's Name: Charlotte Burgess
Gender: Male
Where born: St Pancras

Civil parish: Pancras
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 35 Burton Crescent
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Pancras
Sub-registration district: Tottenham Court
ED, institution, or vessel: 15b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Edmond Burgess 45
Charlotte Burgess 43
Walter Burgess 20
Sarah Burgess 20
Annie Burgess 11
Harry Burgess 7
Ada Burgess 5
Minnie Burgess
Charlotte Burgess 14


2 sons were born after 1881....... both died young (baptism records from ancestry).

Also I couldn't find a baptism records for Harry (Henry) Burgess.



Dee x

The Davies family in 1891 are;


Emma >> married, nurse born Southampton
Arthur B >> single, Labourer
Henry M >. single, Labourer

They are living next door to the Bailey family.

The Baileys are at 40 Shakespeare St (?) whilst the Davies family are at 38.


Sorry Lorraine for PM'ing you........ I had that 1881 census for ages and just couldn't add it, typical it's working as soon as I've PM'ed you.


Dee x

Hi Susan and BatMansDaughter,

I have been trying to find any of the above family members in the 1881 Census, but have had no success. What intrigues me is that Henry M Bailey is aged 19 in 1891 and the head of the household, Charley Bailey, is only 35,so he could not have been Henry M Bailey's father. Where does the surname Davies fit into the picture - for allfamilymembers? I have in my possession an old photo of a brass band dated 1884/5. My grandfather is a teenaged holding a cornet, and the address stamped on the back of the photo is 122, Turnpike Lane,Hornsey,London (I presume
the address of the photographer). To date nobody has been able to identify this brass band, or the bandmaster. I have always thought it could be ofThe Strand Union Band,Edmonton, but I cannot prove this. Can anybody tracemembers of thisBailey/Davies family in the 1881Census?
Inthe 1891 Census Emma Bailey is aged 53 - could she be Henry M Bailey's widowed mother. Does the 1891 Census mention her marital status?

The above census for 1891 is definately Davies on the original image and not Bailey.......... sadly!!

I wonder

1891 England Census
about Henry M Bailey
Name: Henry M Bailey
[Henry M Davies]
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Charles Bailey
Gender: Male
Where born: Islington, London, England

Civil parish: Hornsey
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthias
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Edmonton
Sub-registration district: Hornsey
ED, institution, or vessel: 32
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Bailey 35
Henrietta Bailey 35
Anna Bailey 10
Henrietta Bailey 8
Herman Bailey 6
Ernest Bailey 1
Emma Bailey 53
Arthur B Bailey 26
Henry M Bailey 19

Thank you everybody. I have always thought he couldbe the Henry Bailey that Dee found at The Strand Union Children's Establishment, but have been unable to prove this - I agree that as he was apparently orphaned at an early age he might have given Edmonton as his place of birth in his army records, this being the area he knew he had lived in. He told me that he had been placed in an orphanage but did not know who his parents were.

With regard to his army record as given by Maddie, this is definitely my grandfather, but there a few more details on the original (acopyof whichIpersonallyobtainedfrom The NationalArchives in 2007 when researching there (I love in South Africa)

He always " said" he was born on 9thJuly, 1873, which would be pretty close to the age given on his Short Service Attestation ,which gives hisageas19yearsand 4 months on 20thJune, 1893 (the date he joined.
The Army Medica lCorps)at Aldershot. In c1899 Medical Staff Corps. was renamed Royal Army Medical Corps. He was first sent to the Royal Infirmary in Netley, Southampton, then to Malta and then on 27th June, 1900 to South Africa where he was with the Royal Army Medical Corps for 1900, 1901 and 1902 until the end of the Ango Boer War in 1902. He was then seconded to the South AfricanGovernment as an army reserve and completed his at the termination of his first period of limited engagement(12 years) His rank was L/Sgt.

Under Name and Address of next of kin was written
Charles Bailey, father:
35 Burton Crescent (or perhapsBuxton Crescent)
London W.5
but thisname and address was at some stage crossed out and
initialled by the recruiting officer W G A Bedford
Surgeon Major AMS Recruiting Officer.

I think it must have been crossed out by Surgeon Major Bedford
on 20thJune, 1893, the day Henry Bailey joined Medical Staff Corps
when Bedford realized that the father, Charles Bailey, was infact
deceased>

Underneath this crossed out name and address is written

No living relations
Friend Styles Willis
17 Moray Road
Tollington Park
London.

I have traced this Styles Willis as having been born and raised in Greenwich.
My grandfather was confirmed by the Anglican Bishop of London. Dr. Temple sometime in in the 1880's, not long before he became the
Archbishop of Canterbury. About forty boys were confirmed at the same time, probably boys from an orphanage/home.

If I can find a birth or baptism of a Henry Bailey whose father was named Charles Bailey, it might help me solve this mystery.

His given birth place maybe just an area that he knew he lived in??

1881 England Census
about Henry Bailey
Name: Henry Bailey
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation: Inmate
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Edmonton
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address: "Strand Union Childrens Establishment"
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Edmonton
Sub-registration district: Edmonton
ED, institution, or vessel: The Strand Union Children Establishment
Neighbors: View others on page

Too many others to list. No other Baileys listed.


Dee x