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DENTON & BRIGGS - NOTTINGHAM / KIRKHEATON

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

ARSTEE

ARSTEE Report 2 May 2011 23:50

Hi, please can anyone help me locate some people. Here is what i know already

George Denton. Born Nottingham 1853
Parents listed on his birth cert are James Denton & Martha Denton (formally Briggs)
Father - Labourer

Alice Denton (his sister) born Nottingham 1851.
Parents listed just the same as above

I can find no record of a marriage between James & Martha

George can only 1st be found on a census in 1871. Alice is married but her and her husband are there also living in Nottingham with a Thomas Denton (head). he is a widow. He can be traced back and appears on the 1861, 51 & 41 census living in Dalton / Kirkheaton - Huddersfield but only with his sister and previous to that his mum. No mention of a wife.

Also on the 1871 census is a William Denton & Thomas Denton (all listed as brothers to George). I can find no birth records for them or anything previous to this census and they disappear after this census as does Thomas also.

George & Alice are the only ones I can trace on from this 1871 census.

Thomas (head) has a brother called James who married a Sarah Briggs but they have a fully traceable history and don't appear to leave the Huddersfield area.

Hopefully someone could look at this please and maybe see something i haven't as I'd really like to get further back than George - plus it's driving me crazy not knowing where they popped up from and who everyone is )

George, on his marriage in 1873 names his father as deceased but he's gone from a labourer to a shop keeper ? I can see no death record for him.

both James and Martha couldn't sign their names and did so with a cross

Dea

Dea Report 3 May 2011 08:14

1871 for reference:

1871 England Census
about George Denton Name: George Denton
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Brother
Gender: Male
Where born: Nottinghamshire, England
Civil parish: St Mary
Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Registration district: Nottingham
Sub-registration district: St Mary
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Household schedule number: 111
Piece: 3512
Folio: 12
Page Number: 19
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Denton 40 Widr. b. Dolton, Yorkshire Labr.
George Denton 18 brother winder
William Denton 15 brother winder
Thomas Denton 12 brother threader for machine
George Breedon 24 lodger
Alice Breedon 20 lodger

at 7 Stag Yard

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 3512; Folio: 12; Page: 19; GSU roll: 839747.

///////////////////

This must be Thomas on 1861:

1861 England Census
about Thomas Denton Name: Thomas Denton
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Gender: Male
Where born: West Yorkshire, Dalton

Civil parish: Dalton
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Registration district: Huddersfield
Sub-registration district: Kirkheaton
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 1
Piece: 3260
Folio: 4
Page Number: 1
Household Members: Name Age
Sarah Denton 36 unm. Yarn Dealer
Thomas Denton 30 brother, unmarried Fancy weaver

Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 3260; Folio: 4; Page: 1; GSU roll: 543104.

////////////////////

And on 1851:

1851 England Census
about Thomas Denton Name: Thomas Denton
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Son
Mother's name: Mary Denton
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Dalton, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Dalton
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England


Registration district: Huddersfield
Sub-registration district: Almondbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 4a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 50
Piece: 2294
Folio: 600
Page Number: 17
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Denton 60 widow
Hannah Denton 38
James Denton 29
Sarah Ann Denton 26
Thomas Denton 20


at Nettleton

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2294; Folio: 600; Page: 17; GSU roll: 87490-87491.

Dea x

Dea

Dea Report 3 May 2011 08:19

Firstly,

If Thomas was a widow on 1871 - he must have been married and widowed between 1861 and 1871 as he was still single in 1861.

Secondly, the three boys on 1871 could not have been 'full' brothers to him as his (Thomas's) mother Mary was 40 ish when she had him and she would not be producing more children some 20-30 years later !!

Doubtful that they are Thomas's children, though their ages would be O.K. for him to be the father, but he did not appear to have any children before 1861.

Perhaps they were children of whoever he married and took on his name?

I will see what I can find.

Dea x

ARSTEE

ARSTEE Report 3 May 2011 08:53

Hi Dea,

Yes, you've found the right family :o)

I came to the same conclusion about the 2 other boys probably being Thomas step children too - great minds :o)

What i'd really like to find now is where George, Alice, James & Martha were before 1871 and who were James & Martha and where is James's death ?

I think James at least must be from the Huddersfield area and some relation to Thomas and Thomas was there looking after them in their parents abcence ?

George was my G.G.Grandad.

Dea

Dea Report 3 May 2011 09:40

I HAVE been looking Arstee - honest !!!

I just can't find anything conclusive at the moment but I will keep looking as this one has me baffled at the moment.

I have 2 small grandchildren coming for the day today - Just going off to collect them but I will be 'back on the case' the minute I can.

Speak later,

Dea x

In the meantime - were there any more details on George's birth cert, e.g. fathers occupation, address etc?

Also, who were the witnesses (+ all the other details) from his marriage cert please?

Dea x

Susan

Susan Report 3 May 2011 09:45



Dea

Does'nt Formally after the mothers name to mean that she was previously married.

This one has me stuck as well,unless Martha is using her second name and she is really Sarah Briggs married James Denton as I can find that marriage 1851 ?

Suex

ARSTEE

ARSTEE Report 3 May 2011 10:00

Hi Dea & Susan

thank you both for your time looking at this and I agree, it's a nightmare !!

I can find no marriage between James & Martha so have no cert for that.

The James & Sarah you've found a marriage for is Thomas's brother, I've checked them out and they don't appear to leave the kirkheaton area. They have 2 children and die there.

They may not have married and just fibbed on G & A's birth certs i suppose ?

There is a Martha Briggs death in Nottingham in 1867 i think it was but no James Denton deaths there. I have to order that cert to see but it's all ££££'s :o(

On both George & Alices birth certs James is listed as a labourer but on Georges marriage he is down as a shop keeper and dead.

The family you found Sue are there on the 1861 & 1871 census too so i dont think that's correct.

Its all very infuriating isn't it !!

ARSTEE

ARSTEE Report 3 May 2011 10:05

p.s

On Alice's birth in 1851 they live at Crosland Court, Nottingham
On George's birth in 1853 they live at Barker Gate, Nottingham.

Martha registered 1 and James registered 1 - both signed with a cross.

ARSTEE

ARSTEE Report 3 May 2011 10:28

Just a thought, I know they didn't have to register births back then but how about deaths - did they have to register those does anyone know ?

Barbara

Barbara Report 3 May 2011 11:38

Thomas had a brother James
Results for: Denton, British Isles
Father: Isaac , Mother: Mary Blackburn
Exact Spelling: Off
Batch Number: C012722
[refine search] [Print]
Prepare selected records for download

International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 5 Find more British records by searching on the
updated FamilySearch site. Click here...

Select records to download - (50 maximum)
1. THOMAS DENTON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 13 FEB 1831 Kirkheaton, Yorkshire, England

2. JOHN DENTON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 06 MAY 1827 Kirkheaton, Yorkshire, England

3. JAMES DENTON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 19 AUG 1821 Kirkheaton, Yorkshire, England

4. SARAH ANN DENTON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 23 MAY 1824 Kirkheaton, Yorkshire, England

5. JOSEPH BLACKBURN DENTON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 22 MAR 1818 Kirkheaton, Yorkshire, England



Susan

Susan Report 3 May 2011 11:52

1841 England Census
about James Denton
Name: James Denton
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Gender: Male
Where born: Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Kirk Heaton
Hundred: Agbrigg (Upper Division)
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: Weaver.

Registration district: Huddersfield
Sub-registration district: Kirkburton
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1278
Book: 2
Folio: 39
Page Number: 28
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Denton 50
Hannah Denton 25
James Denton 15
Sarah Denton 15
Thomas Denton 10


Susan

Susan Report 3 May 2011 12:11

This the same family in 1851 but says all born Dalton ?

Mary is a widow.

1851 England Census
about James Denton
Name: James Denton
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822
Relation: Son
Mother's name: Mary Denton
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Dalton, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Dalton
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:Weaver

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Huddersfield
Sub-registration district: Almondbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 4a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 50
Piece: 2294
Folio: 600
Page Number: 17
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Denton 60
Hannah Denton 38
James Denton 29
Sarah Ann Denton 26
Thomas Denton 20


Janet

Janet Report 3 May 2011 13:13

........Just because I have a book of transcription of marriages at Kirkheaton at hand, there is a marriage of Isaac Denton to Mary Blackburn on 02/11/1811 at St Johns Kirkheaton where it says that Isaac Denton is of the parish of Almondbury and Mary Blackburn is of the parish of Kirkheaton.-jl

Alemap

Alemap Report 3 May 2011 14:22

No 6 found, fits with marriage of 1811.

Results for: British Isles
Father: Isaac Denton, Mother: Mary
International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 6

6. HANNAH DENTON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 30 AUG 1812 Kirkheaton, Yorkshire, England

ARSTEE

ARSTEE Report 3 May 2011 14:33

Hi,

Barbara, Susan & Janet

You have all found Thomas and his brother James in Kirkheaton / Dalton.

Thomas is there with his family until the 1871 census when he turns up in Nottingham.

His brother James stays there in that area, marries there, has children there and dies there so I've already ruled out his brother as being my James as he doesn't leave.

Its all very confusing especially as James marries Sarah Briggs yet I'm looking for Martha Briggs ??

ARSTEE

ARSTEE Report 3 May 2011 14:36

hi Pam

Hannah was Thomas's sister. He lives with her on the 1861 census.

Dea

Dea Report 3 May 2011 19:31

Hi Arstee,

Just taken grandchildren home !!!!!!!! Phewwwwwwww !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have had a look through Crossland Court on 1851 (when Alice was born) and they do not appear to be there.

It looks like a VERY poor area, lots of lodging houses full of Ag. Labs. and LOTS of Tramps !!!

Hopefully there were not there for long.

I will explore the Barker Gate address where they were in 1853!

Dea x

ARSTEE

ARSTEE Report 3 May 2011 19:55

Hi Dea,

Oh I know, I'm 40 with a 3 year old - bedtime is bliss :o)

Yes, i believe that area to of been very very bad, it lives on in legend even now in Nottingham !!

I dont think Barker Gate was too much better but Stag Yard where they lived 1871 census was better i think.

There are just no clues or leads are there - it's driving me nuts !!!

Thank you so much for taking the time to look when all you probably want to do now is put your feet up annd listen to peace :o)

Dea

Dea Report 3 May 2011 20:13

I can find only this Denton family on Barker Gate (much nicer area), in 1851 but James and Martha are not with them!

It may have no connection but perhaps it is worth following if only to discount ?

I am a bit too tired now but will look further tomorrow.

1851 Census: (Mistranscribed !! - DENTON on image!!)

DENTEON, William Head Married M 50 1801 Framework Knitter Wakefield Yorkshire
DENTEON, Rosetta Wife Married F 53 1798 St Mary Nottinghamshire
DENTEON, Thomas Son Unmarried M 24 1827 Framework Knitter St Mary Nottinghamshire
DENTEON, Catherine Daughter Unmarried F 18 1833 Lace Mender St Mary Nottinghamshire


RG number:HO107 Piece:2132 Folio:444 Page:9

Registration District:
Nottingham Sub District:
Byron Enumeration District:
3e Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
St Mary Municipal Borough:
Address:
3, Barker Gate Wool Alley, St Mary, Nottingham County:
Nottinghamshire

Dea x


Dea

Dea Report 3 May 2011 21:21

Re Susan's question:

"Does'nt Formally after the mothers name to mean that she was previously married ?"

I think the answer is - Not necessarily! - Formerly usualy refers to the maiden name. If the person has been previously married it usually says something like "Mary Smith, late Jones (Ist husbands name), formerly Brown (birth name)

Of course, things often changed over the centuries and depending on the person recording the details - they didn't all know 'the rules'

Dea x