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Hi guys,
I have Henriettas birth certificate here. The information reads as follows:-
28th February 1881
Where born: 6, Glen Cottages, Cobden Road, South Norwood, Croydon, USD
Name: Henrietta
Sex: Girl
Father: George Scivier
Mother: Mary Scivier formerly Tubbess
Occupation of Father: Carman
Signature of informant: M. Scivier. Mother. (Address as before).
Registered: 5th April 1881
Edwin Bailey. Registrar.

Isabess?

Its strange Dee ..but that address dosn`t come up on the 1881 address search......theres a Cobden Road Croydon, but no Glen Cottages in it!!


Nicky

the address is a little muddled on the 1881 census and is given as 6, Cobden Rd, Glen Cottages, Croydon

the family were there, I won't repeat what other helpers have already on page 1

Well I have to admit defeat on this one so far

Got no suggestions for that surname

I think this is George Wheeler a witness on marriage

1881 3 Anerely Road Penge born Norwood Surrey @ 1855 married to Ellen born @ 1861 in Brighton.

6,Thicket Grove penge SE20 8AW

3,Anerley Road Penge SE20 8
When you view on the map the are practically next to each other.

Charles I Wheeler
1881 a Lodger at 6,Hadlow Place Penge born New Town Surrey @ 1857

6,Hadlow Plce Penge SE19 2 on map near Thicket Grove and Anerley road.

I know it doesn't help but I thought I would post anyway.

Maryb

Mary births registered in Romford { covers Barking} 1852 -1853

Archer Mary Ann Romford 4a 85
CLARKE Mary Romford 4a 88
EASTLING Mary Rosetta Romford 4a 81
Featherstonehaugh Mary Ann Romford 4a 82
FEATHERSTONHAUGH Mary Ann Romford 4a 82
Gray Mary Ann Romford 4a 83
Groundwater Mary Elizabeth Romford 4a 77
HART Mary Romford 4a 80
Howgego Mary Ann Jane Romford 4a 70
KEMP Mary Elizabeth Romford 4a 87
Lincoln Mary Ann Romford 4a 70
Phillips Mary Ann Romford 4a 89
REED Mary Ann Romford 4a 76
VALE Mary Ann Romford 4a 85
VALE Mary Ann Romford 4a 89

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Births Jun 1852 (>99%)
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Ashman Mary Romford 4a 77
BELL Mary Jane Romford 4a 77
BLUNDEN Mary Romford 4a 67
Hockley Mary Ann Romford 4a 67
KING Mary Ann Romford 4a 69
MARTIN Mary Ann Romford 4a 59
Nears Mary Romford 4a 77
Pavitt Mary Ann Romford 4a 61
Young Mary Ann Romford 4a 82

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Births Sep 1852 (>99%)
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Colbourn Mary Ann Romford 4a 69
Cudby Mary Romford 4a 73
Dean Mary Ann Romford 4a 63
Gyde Mary Ann Romford 4a 74
Harris Mary Ann Romford 4a 72
Jacobs Mary Ann Romford 4a 56
McKeown Mary Kate Everingham Romford 4a 71
Stevens Mary Ann Romford 4a 74
West Mary Ann Romford 4a 67

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Births Dec 1852 (>99%)
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Archer Mary Ann Romford 4a 59
CLEMITT Mary Ann Romford 4a __
COLE Mary Clarke Romford 4a 77
Cottis Mary Ann Romford 4a 58
Grove Mary Ann Romford 4a 79
HAMMOCK Mary Ann Romford 4a 67
Harding Mary Ann Romford 4a 62
Oliver Mary Ann Romford 4a 76
Smith Mary Ann Romford 4a 76
SMITH Mary Ann Romford 4a 79
Tillett Mary Ann Romford 4a 65
TRAPP Mary Ann Romford 4a 77
White Mary Ann Romford 4a 57

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Births Mar 1853 (>99%)
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Cumbers Mary Ann Romford 4a 84
Fuller Mary Ann Romford 4a 66
Jasper Mary Ann Romford 4a 83
Milbank Mary Ann Romford 4a 83
MOORE Mary Ann Romford 4a 82
NEWMAN Mary Ann Romford 4a 79
PANTON Mary Ann Romford 4a 75
PIPE Mary Ann Romford 4a 75


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Births Jun 1853 (>99%)
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Caswell Mary Ann Romford 4a 7*
Chalk Mary Ann Romford 4a 79
Earle Mary Ann Elizabeth Romford 4a 79
Embleton Mary Ann Romford 4a 87
Merrett Mary Ann Jemima Romford 4a 65
Moss Mary Ann Romford 4a 85
Pavitt Mary Jane Romford 4a 71
Sapsford Mary Ann Romford 4a 66
Seggers Mary Ann Romford 4a 72
Speller Mary Ann Romford 4a ?6
Wilcox Mary Ann Romford 4a 65

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Births Sep 1853 (>99%)
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Camp Mary Ann Romford 4a 78
Clark Mary Romford 4a 7?
Dorrington Mary Ann Romford 4a 80
Fraser Mary Isabella Romford 4a 81
Gilder Mary Romford 4a 78
Gosling Mary Ann Romford 4a 75
Hammond Mary Ann Romford 4a 67
Herrington Mary Ann Romford 4a 60
PAIN Mary Romford 4a 5*
ROYCE Mary Ann Romford 4a 72
Ward Mary Harris Romford 4a 66
WOODWARD Mary Ager Romford 4a 58

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Births Dec 1853 (>99%)
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AMY Mary Ann Romford 4a 57
AXON Mary Jane Romford 4a 60
BIXBY Mary Ann Romford 4a 59
BROWN Mary Ann Romford 4a 82
CHAPMAN Mary Ann Romford 4a 74
CREASEY Mary Ann Romford 4a 58
DAVIES Mary Elizabeth Romford 4a 61
DOWNING Mary Romford 4a 81
ELLIS Mary Ann Romford 4a 80
GODBOLD Mary Ann Romford 4a 71
HALL Mary Ann Maria Romford 4a 74
HAVIS Mary Ann Romford 4a 79
LOVETT Mary Ann Romford 4a 69
WACKET Mary Ann Romford 4a 70

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and 1854-1855 do any of these names look familiar to those who have seen the cert.??

Births Mar 1854 (>99%)
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Bloomfield Mary Ann Romford 4a 66
Bowman Mary Romford 4a 88
Bryant Mary Ann Romford 4a 83
Charleton Mary Romford 4a 75
Chester Mary Ann Romford 4a 88
Conjuit Mary Ann Romford 4a 79
Day Mary Romford 4a 72
Huckle Mary Ann Romford 4a 89
John Mary Elizabeth Romford 4a 73
Rippengale Mary Romford 4a 73
Sida Mary Ann Romford 4a 80
Smorthwaite Mary Ann Romford 4a 80
Sutton Mary Romford 4a 89
Taylor Mary Ann Romford 4a 86
Warner Mary Romford 4a 75
Young Mary Elizabeth Romford 4a 67

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Births Jun 1854 (>99%)
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AYLETT Mary Ann Romford 4a 76
CLARKE Mary Ann Romford 4a 92
MORGAN Mary Ann Romford 4a 77
NEALE Mary Romford 4a 69
SCOTT Mary Ann Romford 4a 93
SKIGGS Mary Ann Romford 4a 75

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Births Sep 1854 (>99%)
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Bennett Mary Jane Romford 4a 67
Hawkins Mary Ann Romford 4a 67
Luxford Mary Susan Romford 4a 76
McCarthy Mary Romford 4a 62
Miles Mary Ann Romford 4a 63
Morgan Mary Ann Romford 4a 70
Potter Mary A Romford 4a 81
Potter Mary Ann Romford 4a 81
Pyner Mary Anne Romford 4a 75
Si__ Mary A Romford 4a 77
Sida Mary Ann Romford 4a 77
Smith Mary A Romford 4a 71
Smith Mary Ann Romford 4a 71
Snow Mary Ann Romford 4a 74
Whennell Mary Ann Romford 4a 77

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Births Dec 1854 (>99%)
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Amos Mary Ann Maria Romford 4a 64
Bryant Mary Ann Romford 4a 72
Burrell Mary Ann Romford 4a 78
Carter Mary Ann Romford 4a 69
Coe Mary Romford 4a 78
Gregory Mary Romford 4a 78
Hardcastle Mary Ann Romford 4a 78
Hight Mary Ann Romford 4a 68
Hill Mary Elizabeth Romford 4a 72
Hunter Mary Ann Romford 4a 69
Hunter Mary Ann Romford 4a 98
Kent Mary Ann Romford 4a 77
King Mary Ann Romford 4a 80
Matthams Mary Patience Romford 4a 79
Rayment Mary Ann Bridge Romford 4a 74
Stanford Mary Emma Romford 4a 72
Warrell Mary Ann Romford 4a 65
Whenn Mary Romford 4a 66
White Mary Ann Romford 4a 65
Wright Mary Ann Romford 4a 62

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Births Mar 1855 (>99%)
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Baley Mary Ann Romford 4a 93
Bull Mary Ann Romford 4a 94
Hopkins Mary Ann Emma Romford 4a 82
Knight Mary Ann Sarah Romford 4a 32
Knight Mary Ann Sarah Romford 4a 82
Raith Mary Ann Romford 4a 84
Sammons Mary Ann Elizabeth Romford 4a 74
Seabrook Mary Ann Romford 4a 79
Smith Mary Ann Romford 4a 81
Wheal Mary Ann Romford 4a 82
Wheele Mary Ann Romford 4a 73


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Births Jun 1855 (>99%)
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Andrews Mary Eliza Sarah Romford 4a 72
Eaton Mary Ann Romford 4a 70
Ford Mary Ann Romford 4a 69
Hazelwood Mary Ann Romford 4a 88
Parish Mary Ann Romford 4a 87
Read Mary Ann Romford 4a 70
Wood Mary Ann Romford 4a 74

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Births Sep 1855 (>99%)
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Ashman Mary Ann Romford 4a 91
Brown Mary Elizabeth Romford 4a 75
Clark Mary Ann Romford 4a 75
Dennis Mary Ann Romford 4a 73
Glenny Mary Wallis Romford 4a 85
Green Mary Romford 4a 69
Hunsdon Mary Ann Romford 4a 69
Parker Mary Romford 4a 88
Payne Mary Ann Henrietta Romford 4a 82
Readburn Mary Ann Romford 4a 81
Runnacies Mary Ann Romford 4a 74
Smith Mary Ann Romford 4a 85
Surrey Mary Ann Romford 4a 75
Taylor Mary Ann Romford 4a 73
Thompson Mary Ann Romford 4a 83
Warr Mary Ann Romford 4a 81

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Births Dec 1855 (>99%)
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Bayley Mary Ann Romford 4a 73
Chiddick Mary Ann Romford 4a 66
Gray Mary Ann Romford 4a 63
Greenwood Mary Ann Romford 4a 79
Hare Mary Ann Romford 4a 73
Pedder Mary Romford 4a 69


Nicky

1911 census has her birth year as 1851 Barking Essex.

Usually 1911 births are a year later than they actually are.

Just a thought.

Maryb

Thanks Nicky, There don't appear to be any that could be the same.

1850 and 1851...

Births Mar 1850 (>99%)
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Bond Mary Ann Romford 12 227
Bugby Mary Ann Romford 12 244
Busby Mary Romford 12 239
Davis Mary Ann Romford 12 224
Earle Mary Ann Romford 12 223
Howlett Mary Romford 12 244
Lake Mary Ann Romford 12 230
Pamment Mary Ann Romford 12 236
Quin Mary Romford 12 242
Smith Mary Ann Maria Romford 12 245
Spashett Mary Ann Romford 12 223

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Births Jun 1850 (>99%)
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Allsop Mary Romford 12 240
Britton Mary Ann Romford 12 248
Cumberland Mary Ann Romford 12 245
O'Brien Mary Ann Romford 12 239
Roach Mary Ann Romford 12 2[3_]6
Williams Mary Ann Romford 12 239

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Births Sep 1850 (>99%)
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Carter Mary Ann Romford 12 220
Colbourn Mary Ann Romford 12 224
Guiver Mary Ann Romford 12 238
Hammond Mary Elizabeth Romford 12 241
Isbell Mary Ann Romford 12 232
King Mary Ann Romford 12 227
Milburn Mary Ann Maria Romford 12 240
Richards Mary Ann Romford 12 239
Savill Mary Ann Romford 12 229

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Births Dec 1850 (>99%)
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Baker Mary Elizabeth Romford 12 235
Byatt Mary Ann Romford 12 226
Chuck Mary Ann Romford 12 227
Clark Mary Romford 12 223
Corsey Mary Susannah Romford 12 215
Daniels Mary Romford 12 215
Kemp Mary Ann Louisa Romford 12 235
Milburn Mary Ann Romford 12 233
Procter Mary Jane Romford 12 222
Sewell Mary Romford 12 216
Sharpe Mary Ann Romford 12 237

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Births Mar 1851 (>99%)
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Bonsor Mary Jane Romford 12 237
Brown Mary Romford 12 249
Chalk Mary Ann Romford 12 237
GENTRY Mary Ann Romford 12 243
Guiver Mary Elizabeth Romford 12 258
Light Mary Romford 12 199
Miles Mary Kezia Romford 12 245
Sutton Mary Ann Romford 12 253
Tyrel Mary Ann Romford 12 248

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Births Jun 1851 (>99%)
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Marrable Mary Ann Romford 12 245
Quash Mary Amelia Romford 12 2*
Rayner Mary Ann Romford 12 239
Rippengale Mary Ann Romford 12 254
SEXTON Mary Romford 12 245
Smith Mary Ann Romford 12 236
Stretton Mary Amelia Romford 12 237
Walls Mary Ann Louisa Romford 12 233

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Births Sep 1851 (>99%)
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CLARKSON Mary Ann Romford 12 227
Fowler Mary Ann Romford 12 224
Fraser Mary Ann Romford 12 215
Gay Mary Ann Romford 12 214
Hare Mary Ann Romford 12 229
Hilyard Mary Romford 12 231
Nutting Mary Ann Romford 12 235
Pyner Mary Ann Romford 12 213
Smorthwaite Mary Jane Romford 12 218
Taylor Mary Ann Romford 12 214

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Births Dec 1851 (>99%)
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Brewster Mary Ann Romford 12 227
Buckman Mary Ann Romford 12 208
Bulley Mary Ann Romford 12 221
BUSH Mary Louisa Romford 12 209
FINCH Mary Ann Romford 12 226
Francis Mary Romford 12 207
GILWHITE Mary Emily Romford 12 203
Howard Mary Ann Romford 12 224
KEMP Mary Ann Romford 12 216
LITTLE Mary Ann Romford 12 210
MARTIN Mary Ann Romford 12 227
Pearce Mary Ann Romford 12 215
Purcell Mary Romford 12 217
Rayner Mary Ann Gooding Romford 12 211
Reynolds Mary Eliza Romford 12 229
Scott Mary Ann Romford 12 215
SCRUBY Mary Ann Augusta Romford 12 227
SORRELL Mary Ann Romford 12 209
STOCKLEY Mary Ann Romford 12 113
Stockley Mary Ann Romford 12 215




Nicky

If george and Marys eldest daughter Mary who is listed as age 3 on the 1881 census is correct, then she is born prior to the marriage...would she have been born with MMN?

Wondering about the possibility of Turner? Theres a Mary louisa turner born Marylebone Dec. qtr. 1877...does she show a middle name in later census`s?



Nicky

Think the surname is Tubb,,,,,

Think this is eldest daughter Mary born marylebone c 1877.. prior to her mothers marraige in 1879..

Births Dec 1877 (>99%)
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TUBB Mary Sophia Marylebone 1a 544


Mary Sophia Scivier then marries in March qtr 1897 to Stanley Percy White.

will go and look for Mary Tubb with father Benjamin...


Nicky

that birth could be linked to this baptism

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Mary Sophia Tubb Name: Mary Sophia Tubb
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1877
Baptism Date: 7 Nov 1877
Father's name: John William Tubb
Mother's name: Mary Tubb
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Marylebone
Borough: Westminster

address is workhouse
father's occupation is a chimney sweep

George Robert Scivier married 5/8/1900 in Summers town Wandsworth to Alice Cullip.
Witness to marriage Stanley Percy White.

Mary Sivyer A/M/J 1877 Croydon 2a 237. Is this there 1st daughter who married Stanley Percy White?

George Robert's age 22 = 1878 so he too was born before marriage but in his fathers name??

The name must be someting close to Tubess as if it isn't why is it on marriage and birth certificate??

Maryb

Nicky,
Waht does MMN stand for?

As far as I can see she is always listed in the census returns as just Mary. Just worked out acronym MMN, Duh! (Now you can see why I need all the help I can get . :D

I have just looked at the 1911 census again and George and Mary put 36 years for length of marriage which would put the marriage at1875. But the marriage certificate clearly states 1879. Sorry to muddy the water even more. (Or could that have been to cover up the fact that 2 of the children were born prior to their marriage?)

Just found age discrepancies for Mary and George in each census.
In 1911 she is 60 and George is 64. born, Barking, Essex.
In 1901 she is 49 and George is 57.(not in the family home but is a servant). born Barking.
In 1891 she is 42 and George is 40. born Essex, Barking.
In 1881 she is 29 and George is 33. born Essex, Barking.
On wedding cert. in 1879 age for George is 32 and Mary 26.
On the 1881 census they would not have give Mary's age as 3 if they had wanted to cover up the fact that she was born before the marriage would they?

Guys,
Have found this on CLDS records:
1881 Saint Lukes, Woodside, Croydon, Surrey.
Parents: George Scivier, Mary
K15404-1
1067533
Do these records show the entirety of information, it's just that if Mary's maiden name was on it they would probably have included it wouldn't they?Is there a way I can get a copy of this from LDS do you know?