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Probate for William Baguley Graves 25 May 1936
same address to Rev Linsan Alfred William Graves clerk
£3631 7s 2d

Ah - so they 'disappeared' from that address because of his death. Wonder where she went from there?

Well .. my mind is spinning with this one trying to piece together what we know and dont know.

So ... what do we know that we can prove?

Arthur and Ella were both with their parents in 1911 census - both single.

In 1916 Ella gave birth to twins Arthur and Zebe - and Rhoda says she has the birth certs for these two and Arthur is named as the father. [Rhoda has sent off for the certs for Alma to see who is named as the father]

Arthur and Ella are recorded as living in West Bridgford [on the twins birth certs] at the time of the twins birth in 1916 - but they are not with Arthur's mother!

Arthur is recorded as deceased at his daughter [Zebe's] wedding in 1938.

Arthur Chester records his parents [next of kin?] on his army service records as Arthur and Helene [Ella] Wood and that they live in Mansfield. We dont know when he enlisted [Rhoda's father is obtaining the documentation]

Ella is found in Mansfield In 1930/31 she appears living in the same household as a William Baguley GRAVES until 1936. The address is Redgate Place, Westfield Lane, Mansfield. She records herself as Ella and Helene Grace WOOD up until 1935/36 when she changes her name to Ella Grace Trautman WOOD. Ella moves out of this residence when GRAVES dies in 1936 [ish].

The above may narrow down the search for Arthur's death - however, the nearest I can find is still

Deaths Mar 1931 (>99%)
Wood Arthur 45 Southwell 7b 660

I will check the West Bridgford electoral records for 1916 to see where Arthur and Ella were living when their twins were born.

Have I missed anything?

Oh ..... and I have his mother will, in which she left [gross] £233,256 split in equal parts between [as far as I can find out] between 8 surviving children on her death. This only works out as approx £30,000.00 per child - so this isnt a fortune!

She didnt leave her house to anyone in particular, so I dont know whether she owned it or not - she is recorded on the electoral register as having an occupation/residential vote? I only mention this because the area was a 'well to do' area and so having lived in the same property for some 25 years you could be forgiven for assuming that the property was owned by them as residents! - and Rhoda mentioned that family 'legend' is that Ella was a 'kept woman'. I am not sure how much £30,000 would be considered a 'fortune' in 1923?

Cynthia,

I have received a very honest and candid reply from the Genes Support Team [Estelle] about the email updates. The situation is that the system isnt working [it sent out hundreds of alerts to members for a single update on a thread] so Genes switched it off until the problem could be sorted out!

I have to say, as a result of my email conversation with Estelle, I am impressed. Honesty is a rare thing today - but I appreciate it - and I give them [apart from the initial email I received] 15 out of 10 for their response time and their honesty. They have left me with far more confidence about queries to Genes. Estelle has persuaded me that Genes policy is indeed to listen to our complaints and respond accordingly!

I would say, that should you ever need to get in touch with Genes and get a response from Estelle, that you will receive an honest answer and you can be reassured that the issue has been looked into before she answers!

Credit where credit is due! Thank you Estelle!!!

Ladies hello...
Thank you Elaine for your summary of what has been found to date... it was great to have it in one posting and I'm pleased to tell you that I can corroborate some of it with what I have discovered!

Arthur Wood is named on Alma, Chester & Zebe's birth certificates. Unfortunately I have ordered the wrong birth cert for Pearl, however on her death certificate dated Feb 1936 Arthur Wood is named as the father in the occupation column of the cert. He's also noted as deceased - that's two years before Nana married.

The birth cert I ordered for Pearl was b 1921 07b 879 but it detailed a Pearl Grace Richards born to a Pamela Grace Trautman in 1921. Pearl was 14 when she died 19 Feb 1936, so would have been born 1922. However I can't now find another birth details to try and obtain that cert!

On Pearl's death cert, in the occupation column it states she was living at 7 (i think) Redgate Place, Westfield Lane - exactly the address you found Elaine.

Arthur Lorenzo was born 21st Jan 1885 in Bath Street, Ilkeston. His dad Alfred was a provisions dealer, mum Jane Wood (formerly Taylor).

Ella was registered as Ellen Grace and was born at 8 Gladstone Street, Loughborough.

So, I need to find Pearl's birth details, but as Arthur Wood is named on her death cert (albeit deceased) I'm sure he must be named on the birth cert too. I wonder where she was born?

I'm going to update the details on my tree now....
Rhoda

Hmmm say Pamella slowly

Pam Ella Grace.



Richardson was also a family name. See Laine's thread.

Hi Rhoda,

That birth cert has to be the correct one? The cert has not recorded her surname but the GRO index page clearly has - stating

TRAUTMAN Pearl G.R. - Trautman - Nottingham - 7b 879

Can you post on here the details of the cert? All of the details, including any address or sub-district etc.

Does it say Pearl Grace Richards or Richardson?

Hi... I don't have teh certs with me at work but will update later tonight with all the details... from top of head it said Mum was Pamela Ella Richards and she was a domestic servant. The father isn't named on the cert - I remember that much.
Anyway am guessing the rest will post later tonight when I'm back home.
Rhoda

Did someone say that £30,000 was not a fortune in 1923?

It certainly would be a fortune now !

The equivalent today would be around £1,268,342.00 - I wouldn't mind if someone would leave me that amount :-D

The total of the estate would now be worth almost £10 million.

Dea x

Hi Dea,

I dont know whether I have my figures wrong then - but she left a gross estate of £7783 18s 8d in 1923. Using the archive currency converter this equates to [1925 value to todays value] £233,254.51 - divided between 8 children makes £29,156.75 [at today's money].

Dont get me wrong - I would love £30,000 - but although it would be a great bonus - I couldnt buy a house with it and I certainly couldnt support a 'kept' woman and 3 children!!! [well not for too long!!]

What I was trying to say, was, I dont consider £30,000 a fortune today - would it have been seen as such in 1923?

Sorry if I have confused you by my last posting - please let me know if what I have posted is not clear - and I will explain what I mean again. :-)

Hi Rhoda,

Sorry - you posted that the cert said 'Pearl Grace Richards born to a Pamela Grace Trautman in 1921' - now you say that it states the mother was Pamela Ella Richards?

Surely the mention of the name Trautman cannot be wrong? It is not a common name? I will await your posting with the details.

I note from your tree that Zebe and Arthur as twins [b1916] were born in Hucknall? Yet from a previous posting you say that their parents were living in West Bridgford when they were born? I have been trying to find Arthur and Ella in West Bridgford - and havent found anything to date - but if Zebe and Arthur Chester were born in Hucknall this would explain why.

Please could you state the address on the birth certs of Zebe and Arthur? [it will make sure that I am not looking in the wrong area for them]

Many thanks.

Elaine

Ahhh - I see Elaine - you had already converted it !!

It's a lot more exciting though when you convert it twice :-D :-D

Sorry to confuse.

Dea x

Hi Dea,

Yes - it was alot more interesting when you convert it twice - unfortunately this wasnt the case - and anyway, none of the money has come to me!!!!!

I am glad you managed to understand my last posting - I sometimes dont tend to speak English - I know what I am saying, but what others understand it as is another matter!!! :-S

Elaine

nudge for Rhoda

Am here... sorry! Never offended by a nudge though :-D

Pearl Grace Richards b 20th April 1921 at 38 Beveridge Road, Nottingham to a Pamela Grace Trautman (domestic house keeper). No father named. Informant is a John W Richards living at the same address as Pearl was born.

Nana and Chester on their birth cert are showing as born on 31 West Street, Hucknall and Ella was residing at the time at 92 Radcliffe Road West Bridgeford (according to the birth cert).

Does that add to the confusion are aid it?!

Hi Rhoda,

Dont you think that it seems a co-incidence that 'Richards' should be added to Pearl's name - and a 'Richards' is the informant. I cannot seem to locate a Beveridge Road Nottingham in the 1911 census or by searching on the internet. I will look at the archives when I visit.

I have tried to search the electoral records for Hucknall in 1916 - but the records at the library appear to be missing. I have yet to visit the archives to see if they have them - though the library think they wont as the archives provided the library with the records they have. I will try though.

It seems odd that Ella would be residing in West Bridgford when her children were born in Hucknall? It is not exactly a stone's throw. She may have been visiting someone? The electoral records will give a name which may solve that mystery?

Wright's Directory of Nottingham, 1913-14 doesnt include a Beveridge Road either.

Message back from the archives [thought I would check before I visited!]

"Unfortunately no Electoral Registers were compiled for 1916-1917 due to the First World War. We do hold electoral registers for 1914-1915 and 1918-1919 which can be searched on microfiche..."

So.... I will not be able to trace Ella in 1916 at all - and I still cannot find a Beveridge Road!

Any sign of those service records for Arthur Chester yet Rhoda?

Any ideas where to go from here would be most welcome?

Elaine hi...
Dad is sending off for the service records this week and this is away for a few weeks so hopefully mid Sept we should have more clarity on those.

I'm still not convinced about the Pamela Grace Richards link - I haven't had the time to progress a great deal, but I will do - plus I'll ask some of the team here to see if they can help unravel the mystery.

Keep in touch and we will get there!

Rhoda