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Margaret
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13 Jul 2011 04:27 |
Hi I was wondering if anyone could help me please. I'm searching for info. regarding my Great Grandfather Joseph Shirley who came out to Queensland, Australia aboard the ship "Ramsay" in 1873 with his wife Emma and family - Joseph and Emma's ages were recorded as 42 years. I had thought that Joseph was born circa 1828 and that his father's name was William and his mother was Eliza Gibbs. However I have a death record of Joseph from the Justice Dept. Qld. BDM as 1904 - father Joseph and mother Elizabeth Baker. I thought that Joseph was born in Oxfordshire as that is where my Grandfather Harry and siblings were born and the family was recorded in various census records as Oxfordshire, before coming out to Queensland. The only record I could find of Joseph Shirley in the 1851 census is Joseph Shirley born 1828, Prisoner, in Little Missenden, Bucks. I've struck a brickwall - would really appreciate help. Thanks heaps Margie (nee Shirley)
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Lynski
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13 Jul 2011 04:59 |
Is this Joseph and Emma in 1861 census??
SHURLEY, Joseph Head Married M 32 1829 Cow Man Great Barford Oxfordshire SHURLEY, Emma Wife Married F 29 1832 Dressmaker Yandford Oxfordshire MURRY, Emma E Daughter In Law F 9 1852 Scholar ... Oxfordshire MURRY, Martha Daughter In Law Unmarried F 9 1852 Scholar Milton Oxfordshire SHURLEY, Alfred J M 6 1855 Great Barford Oxfordshire SHURLEY, Sarah A F 2 1859 Bloxham Oxfordshire
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RG number: RG09 Piece: 920 Folio: 69 Page: 12 Registration District: Banbury Sub District: 4 Banbury Enumeration District: 16 B Ecclesiastical Parish: St Mary Civil Parish: Neithrop Municipal Borough: Address: Wykham, Neithrop County: Oxfordshire
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Lynski
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13 Jul 2011 05:04 |
Marriages Jun 1856 (>99%) MURRAY Emma Banbury 3a 861 SHIRLEY Joseph Banbury 3a 861
The term "daughter in law" in the 1861 census refers to step children.
If this is the correct marriage then the certificate would (hopefully) give you the names of their fathers.
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Lynski
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13 Jul 2011 05:09 |
1871 census -
SHIRLEY, Joseph Head M 41 1830 Oxfordshire VIEW SHIRLEY, Emma Wife F 40 1831 Oxfordshire VIEW SHIRLEY, Alfred Thos Son M 14 1857 Oxfordshire VIEW SHIRLEY, Sarah Ann Daughter F 12 1859 Oxfordshire VIEW SHIRLEY, Caroline Daughter F 4 1867 Oxfordshire VIEW SHIRLEY, William Edwd Son M 2 1869 Oxfordshire VIEW SHIRLEY, Henry Son M 0 1871 Oxfordshire VIEW
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RG number: RG10 Piece: 1447 Folio: 81 Page: 5 Registration District: Woodstock Sub District: Deddington Enumeration District: 13 Ecclesiastical Parish: Civil Parish: Nether Worton Municipal Borough: Address: Farm Cottage, Nether Worton County: Oxfordshire
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Lynski
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13 Jul 2011 05:13 |
Was Emma married before?
1851 census -
MURRAY, Samuel Head Married M 22 1829 Stone Mason Barford Oxfordshire VIEW MURRAY, Emma Wife Married F 20 1831 Straw Bonnet Maker Sandford Oxfordshire VIEW
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RG number: HO107 Piece: 1733 Folio: 100 Page: 29 Registration District: Banbury Sub District: 1 Enumeration District: BLOXHAM 1 Ecclesiastical Parish: Civil Parish: Bloxham Municipal Borough: Address: Bloxham County: Oxfordshire
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Margaret
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13 Jul 2011 07:32 |
Hi Lynski Thank you. Everything you have written is correct. Greatgrandmother Emma was first married to Samuel Murray and they had twin daughters Emma and Martha. Emma came out on the Ramsay with Joseph, Emma and the Shirley family. I think Martha must have stayed in England. Unfortunately, I can't find Joseph Shirley in the 1851 census (only the one from Bucks.) I have William Shirley as Joseph's father and Elizabeth or Eliza Gibbs as Joseph's mother but the Queensland BDM death record has Joseph's father recorded as Joseph and mother as Elizabeth Baker which has now thrown doubt on the parents of Joseph that I have listed. Many thanks for all your help and if you can shed some more light on the subject, it would be greatly appreciated. Margie
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jolee
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13 Jul 2011 11:41 |
For info right birth place for Joseph but living in Warwickshire. 1851 census Joseph Shirley Head born 1819 Great Barford Oxfordshire Ag Lab Eliza wife born 1821 born Kenniworth Warwicks Ann daughter scholar 1841 Jane daughter scholar 1843 Liddy daughter scholar 1844 William H.H. son 9 months 1850 Living Castle End Kenilwoth Warwickshire
Do any of these names ring a bell :-)
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Margaret
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15 Jul 2011 07:55 |
Hi Joan Thanks for the info. and raising the possibility that my greatgrandfather Joseph Shirley may also have been married before as was great grandmother Emma Murray (nee Stow). Joseph and Emma married at Barford St. Michael, Oxon. June 20th 1856 - 6 years after the youngest child of Joseph and Eliza, namely William H.H. Shirley listed in the 1851 census born 1850. There could be a possibility that Joseph was indeed married before and that could explain why I couldn't find him in the 1851 census as I didn't recognise any of the names. However, his birth date in the 1851 census doesn't tally with the age he gave on the ship's record - his age was stated as 42 years, same age recorded for Emma. They came to Queensland, Australia in 1873. Emma was born 1831 so her age is correct. Is it possible he lowered his age to qualify for the assisted passage?? I thought he was born about 1828. Joseph and Emma's children were: Alfred Thomas Shirley b. circa 1855 ? Sarah Shirley b. 1859 Caroline Shirley b. 1867 William Edward Shirley b. 1869 Harry Shirley b. 1871 (my grandfather) - all born Oxfordshire Ernest Shirley was born in Queensland 1875. I guess the only way to make sure is to obtain the marriage certificate of Joseph and Eliza to see if Joseph's parents were indeed Joseph Shirley and Elizabeth Baker. Alternatively, I could send for a copy of the marriage of Joseph and Emma as Lynski has suggested and hopefully the parents names may be on that certificate. Thanks once again for raising this possibility - the plot thickens!!
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Margaret
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16 Jul 2011 08:40 |
Hi again Joan All my suppositions on the above are incorrect. Just found the parents of Joseph Shirley born 1817 Gt. Barford Oxfordshire, they are on my tree! Their names were Edward and Ann - will go with the marriage certificate of Joseph born 1828 and Emma and hopefully Joseph's father's name will be on that. :-D
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Dea
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16 Jul 2011 09:41 |
This is Williams Baptism:
Name: William Henry Harrison Shirley Gender: Male Baptism/Christening Date: 13 Oct 1850 Baptism/Christening Place: KENILWORTH,WARWICK,ENGLAND
Father's Name: Joseph Shirley Mother's Name: Eliza
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04229-1 System Origin: England-ODM Source Film Number: 555348 Reference Number: Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 ...................
In view of his middle name, I suspect that this was his parents marriage:
Marriages Dec 1840 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BENCH Thomas Warwick 16 699 HANCOX Elizabeth Warwick 16 699 >>>>>>HARRISON Eliza Warwick 16 699 **** HUMPHRISS Emma Warwick 16 699 Letman William Warwick 16 699 MAYCOCK Elizabeth Warwick 16 699 READING Charles Warwick 16 699 >>>>>>SHIRLEY Joseph Warwick 16 699 ****
Dea x
EDIT:
This is NOT the same Joseph who later married Emma !!!
I have found this Joseph + Eliza still together on 1861 census under the name of SHEELEY !!.
'Your' Joseph appeared on 1861 with Emma, so they are not the same one!
Dea x
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Dea
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16 Jul 2011 10:42 |
Yes - you DO need that marriage cert to find the father.
You are saying that 'your' Joseph is the son of Edward + Ann, but this is the baptism of that one and he was born c1817 which fits with the one who married Eliza in Warwickshire (he is not 'yours')
Name: Joseph Shirley Gender: Male Baptism/Christening Date: 02 Nov 1817 Baptism/Christening Place: ST MICHAEL,BARFORD,OXFORD,ENGLAND
Father's Name: Edward Shirley Mother's Name: Ann
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C02596-1 System Origin: England-ODM Source Film Number: 95211 Reference Number: Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Dea x
EDIT:
Arrggh - Silly me!
You did not claim that the Joseph you seek had parents Edward and Ann, only that you had 'that particular Joseph ' somewhere on your tree ! ... aplolgies - I am confusing myself.
Dea x
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Dea
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16 Jul 2011 10:45 |
This looks like it might be 'your' Joseph???
Name: Joseph Shirley Gender: Male Baptism/Christening Date: 24 Feb 1828 Baptism/Christening Place: ST MICHAEL,BARFORD,OXFORD,ENGLAND
Father's Name: William Shirley Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C02596-1 System Origin: England-ODM Source Film Number: 95211 Reference Number: Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Dea x
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Astra
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16 Jul 2011 10:52 |
Joseph with his mother??
Joseph Thurley [Joseph Shurley or Shirley] [Joseph Shurley] Age: 12 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829 Gender: Male Where born: Oxfordshire, England Civil parish: St Michael Barford Hundred: Wootton County/Island: Oxfordshire Household Members: Name Age William Thurley 70 Elizabeth Thurley 40 Eliza Thurley 15 Joseph Thurley 12 Sarah Thurley 10 Ann Thurley 8 Mary Thurley 2 Sarah Gibbs 55
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Astra
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16 Jul 2011 10:54 |
Joseph gone in 1851
Shirley Age: 50 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801 Relation: Wife Spouse's Name: William Shirley Gender: F (Female) Where born: Barford, Oxfordshire, England Civil parish: Barford St Michael County/Island: Oxfordshire Household Members: Name Age William Shirley 81 Elizabeth Shirley 50 John Shirley 22 Ann Shirley 16 Mary Shirley 11
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Mel Fairy Godmother
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16 Jul 2011 10:55 |
And look at the last person on the census. Sarah Gibbs so this could be Elizabeth's mother??
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Dea
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16 Jul 2011 11:17 |
Yes - It all makes sense Astra and Mel but that is the one which Margaret believed was correct at the beginning until the death cert for Joseph gave his parents as Joseph + Elizabeth (Baker) !!!!!!!
She cannot go further without that marriage cert, sadly.
Dea x
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Mel Fairy Godmother
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16 Jul 2011 11:35 |
I did'nt mean to put mother but sister??
Hmm see what you mean Dea
:-(
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Dea
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16 Jul 2011 11:37 |
Margaret,
If you have not already been in touch with these people, you will find a great deal of info here on your Shirley family:
http://www.shirleyassociation.com/NewShirleySite/index2.html
I cannot give you the direct link to the page where your people are detailed but I found if by googling :
"Joseph Shirley" +Barford
It gave me the link to the site above which also has connections to the one name study for this family.
I am sure there will be lots of interest on there for you.
Have to go out now - will check back later.
Dea x
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Mel Fairy Godmother
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16 Jul 2011 11:44 |
Wonder if this could be Joseph's mother a widow of an Ag Lab.
1861 England Census about Elizabeth Shurley Name: Elizabeth Shurley Age: 59 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1802 Relation: Widow Gender: Female Where born: Barford St M, Oxfordshire, England Civil parish: Barford St Michael County/Island: Oxfordshire Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: Banbury Sub-registration district: Bloxham ED, institution, or vessel: 11 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 25 Piece: 914 Folio: 15 Page Number: 5 Household Members: Name Age Elizabeth Shurley 59 Mary Shurley 21
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Margaret
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16 Jul 2011 12:54 |
Thanks to all of you for your input - Dea, you have hit the nail on the head, I will have to send for Joseph and Emma's marriage certificate to hopefully verify Joseph's father's name. I am still convinced that my Joseph's father was William Shirley and his mother was Elizabeth Gibbs. Yes the Shirley Association is a great website which has helped me tremendously - I haven't been back to it lately, there may be new info. so I'll check. What started this query and threw me completely was the Queensland BDM death record of Joseph's father and mother's names. Thanks once again to you all :-)
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