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Joseph Shirley born 1828 or 1831

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Margaret

Margaret Report 13 Jul 2011 04:27

Hi
I was wondering if anyone could help me please. I'm searching for info. regarding my Great Grandfather Joseph Shirley who came out to Queensland, Australia aboard the ship "Ramsay" in 1873 with his wife Emma and family - Joseph and Emma's ages were recorded as 42 years. I had thought that Joseph was born circa 1828 and that his father's name was William and his mother was Eliza Gibbs. However I have a death record of Joseph from the Justice Dept. Qld. BDM as 1904 - father Joseph and mother Elizabeth Baker. I thought that Joseph was born in Oxfordshire as that is where my Grandfather Harry and siblings were born and the family was recorded in various census records as Oxfordshire, before coming out to Queensland. The only record I could find of Joseph Shirley in the 1851 census is Joseph Shirley born 1828, Prisoner, in Little Missenden, Bucks.
I've struck a brickwall - would really appreciate help.
Thanks heaps
Margie (nee Shirley)

Lynski

Lynski Report 13 Jul 2011 04:59

Is this Joseph and Emma in 1861 census??

SHURLEY, Joseph Head Married M 32 1829 Cow Man
Great Barford Oxfordshire
SHURLEY, Emma Wife Married F 29 1832 Dressmaker
Yandford Oxfordshire
MURRY, Emma E Daughter In Law F 9 1852 Scholar
... Oxfordshire
MURRY, Martha Daughter In Law Unmarried F 9 1852 Scholar
Milton Oxfordshire
SHURLEY, Alfred J M 6 1855 Great Barford Oxfordshire
SHURLEY, Sarah A F 2 1859 Bloxham Oxfordshire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number: RG09 Piece: 920 Folio: 69 Page: 12
Registration District: Banbury Sub District: 4 Banbury
Enumeration District: 16 B Ecclesiastical Parish: St Mary

Civil Parish: Neithrop Municipal Borough:
Address: Wykham, Neithrop County: Oxfordshire

Lynski

Lynski Report 13 Jul 2011 05:04

Marriages Jun 1856 (>99%)
MURRAY Emma Banbury 3a 861
SHIRLEY Joseph Banbury 3a 861

The term "daughter in law" in the 1861 census refers to step children.

If this is the correct marriage then the certificate would (hopefully) give you the names of their fathers.

Lynski

Lynski Report 13 Jul 2011 05:09

1871 census -

SHIRLEY, Joseph Head M 41 1830 Oxfordshire VIEW
SHIRLEY, Emma Wife F 40 1831 Oxfordshire VIEW
SHIRLEY, Alfred Thos Son M 14 1857 Oxfordshire VIEW
SHIRLEY, Sarah Ann Daughter F 12 1859 Oxfordshire VIEW
SHIRLEY, Caroline Daughter F 4 1867 Oxfordshire VIEW
SHIRLEY, William Edwd Son M 2 1869 Oxfordshire VIEW
SHIRLEY, Henry Son M 0 1871 Oxfordshire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number: RG10 Piece: 1447 Folio: 81 Page: 5

Registration District: Woodstock Sub District: Deddington
Enumeration District: 13 Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish: Nether Worton Municipal Borough:
Address: Farm Cottage, Nether Worton County: Oxfordshire

Lynski

Lynski Report 13 Jul 2011 05:13

Was Emma married before?

1851 census -

MURRAY, Samuel Head Married M 22 1829 Stone Mason
Barford Oxfordshire VIEW
MURRAY, Emma Wife Married F 20 1831 Straw Bonnet Maker
Sandford Oxfordshire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number: HO107 Piece: 1733 Folio: 100 Page: 29

Registration District: Banbury Sub District: 1 Enumeration District:
BLOXHAM 1 Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish: Bloxham Municipal Borough:
Address: Bloxham County: Oxfordshire




Margaret

Margaret Report 13 Jul 2011 07:32

Hi Lynski
Thank you. Everything you have written is correct. Greatgrandmother Emma was first married to Samuel Murray and they had twin daughters Emma and Martha. Emma came out on the Ramsay with Joseph, Emma and the Shirley family. I think Martha must have stayed in England.
Unfortunately, I can't find Joseph Shirley in the 1851 census (only the one from Bucks.)
I have William Shirley as Joseph's father and Elizabeth or Eliza Gibbs as Joseph's mother but the Queensland BDM death record has Joseph's father recorded as Joseph and mother as Elizabeth Baker which has now thrown doubt on the parents of Joseph that I have listed.
Many thanks for all your help and if you can shed some more light on the subject, it would be greatly appreciated.
Margie

jolee

jolee Report 13 Jul 2011 11:41

For info right birth place for Joseph but living in Warwickshire.
1851 census
Joseph Shirley Head born 1819 Great Barford Oxfordshire Ag Lab
Eliza wife born 1821 born Kenniworth Warwicks
Ann daughter scholar 1841
Jane daughter scholar 1843
Liddy daughter scholar 1844
William H.H. son 9 months 1850
Living Castle End Kenilwoth Warwickshire

Do any of these names ring a bell
:-)

Margaret

Margaret Report 15 Jul 2011 07:55

Hi Joan
Thanks for the info. and raising the possibility that my greatgrandfather Joseph Shirley may also have been married before as was great grandmother Emma Murray (nee Stow). Joseph and Emma married at Barford St. Michael, Oxon. June 20th 1856 - 6 years after the youngest child of Joseph and Eliza, namely William H.H. Shirley listed in the 1851 census born 1850. There could be a possibility that Joseph was indeed married before and that could explain why I couldn't find him in the 1851 census as I didn't recognise any of the names.
However, his birth date in the 1851 census doesn't tally with the age he gave on the ship's record - his age was stated as 42 years, same age recorded for Emma. They came to Queensland, Australia in 1873. Emma was born 1831 so her age is correct. Is it possible he lowered his age to qualify for the assisted passage?? I thought he was born about 1828.
Joseph and Emma's children were:
Alfred Thomas Shirley b. circa 1855 ?
Sarah Shirley b. 1859
Caroline Shirley b. 1867
William Edward Shirley b. 1869
Harry Shirley b. 1871 (my grandfather) - all born Oxfordshire
Ernest Shirley was born in Queensland 1875.
I guess the only way to make sure is to obtain the marriage certificate of Joseph and Eliza to see if Joseph's parents were indeed Joseph Shirley and Elizabeth Baker. Alternatively, I could send for a copy of the marriage of Joseph and Emma as Lynski has suggested and hopefully the parents names may be on that certificate.
Thanks once again for raising this possibility - the plot thickens!!

Margaret

Margaret Report 16 Jul 2011 08:40

Hi again Joan
All my suppositions on the above are incorrect. Just found the parents of Joseph Shirley born 1817 Gt. Barford Oxfordshire, they are on my tree! Their names were Edward and Ann - will go with the marriage certificate of Joseph born 1828 and Emma and hopefully Joseph's father's name will be on that. :-D

Dea

Dea Report 16 Jul 2011 09:41

This is Williams Baptism:

Name: William Henry Harrison Shirley
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 13 Oct 1850
Baptism/Christening Place: KENILWORTH,WARWICK,ENGLAND

Father's Name: Joseph Shirley
Mother's Name: Eliza

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04229-1
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 555348
Reference Number:
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
...................


In view of his middle name, I suspect that this was his parents marriage:

Marriages Dec 1840
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BENCH Thomas Warwick 16 699
HANCOX Elizabeth Warwick 16 699
>>>>>>HARRISON Eliza Warwick 16 699 ****
HUMPHRISS Emma Warwick 16 699
Letman William Warwick 16 699
MAYCOCK Elizabeth Warwick 16 699
READING Charles Warwick 16 699
>>>>>>SHIRLEY Joseph Warwick 16 699 ****

Dea x


EDIT:

This is NOT the same Joseph who later married Emma !!!

I have found this Joseph + Eliza still together on 1861 census under the name of SHEELEY !!.

'Your' Joseph appeared on 1861 with Emma, so they are not the same one!

Dea x

Dea

Dea Report 16 Jul 2011 10:42

Yes - you DO need that marriage cert to find the father.

You are saying that 'your' Joseph is the son of Edward + Ann, but this is the
baptism of that one and he was born c1817 which fits with the one who married
Eliza in Warwickshire (he is not 'yours')

Name: Joseph Shirley
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 02 Nov 1817
Baptism/Christening Place: ST MICHAEL,BARFORD,OXFORD,ENGLAND

Father's Name: Edward Shirley
Mother's Name: Ann

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C02596-1
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 95211
Reference Number:
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Dea x

EDIT:

Arrggh - Silly me!

You did not claim that the Joseph you seek had parents Edward and Ann, only that you had 'that particular Joseph ' somewhere on your tree ! ... aplolgies - I am confusing myself.

Dea x


Dea

Dea Report 16 Jul 2011 10:45

This looks like it might be 'your' Joseph???

Name: Joseph Shirley
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 24 Feb 1828
Baptism/Christening Place: ST MICHAEL,BARFORD,OXFORD,ENGLAND

Father's Name: William Shirley
Mother's Name: Elizabeth

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C02596-1
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 95211
Reference Number:
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Dea x

Astra

Astra Report 16 Jul 2011 10:52

Joseph with his mother??

Joseph Thurley
[Joseph Shurley or Shirley]
[Joseph Shurley]
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Gender: Male
Where born: Oxfordshire, England

Civil parish: St Michael Barford
Hundred: Wootton
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Household Members: Name Age
William Thurley 70
Elizabeth Thurley 40
Eliza Thurley 15
Joseph Thurley 12
Sarah Thurley 10
Ann Thurley 8
Mary Thurley 2
Sarah Gibbs 55

Astra

Astra Report 16 Jul 2011 10:54

Joseph gone in 1851

Shirley
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William Shirley
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Barford, Oxfordshire, England
Civil parish: Barford St Michael
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Household Members: Name Age
William Shirley 81
Elizabeth Shirley 50
John Shirley 22
Ann Shirley 16
Mary Shirley 11

Mel Fairy Godmother

Mel Fairy Godmother Report 16 Jul 2011 10:55

And look at the last person on the census. Sarah Gibbs so this could be Elizabeth's mother??

Dea

Dea Report 16 Jul 2011 11:17

Yes - It all makes sense Astra and Mel but that is the one which Margaret believed was correct at the beginning until the death cert for Joseph gave his parents as Joseph + Elizabeth (Baker) !!!!!!!

She cannot go further without that marriage cert, sadly.

Dea x

Mel Fairy Godmother

Mel Fairy Godmother Report 16 Jul 2011 11:35

I did'nt mean to put mother but sister??

Hmm see what you mean Dea

:-(

Dea

Dea Report 16 Jul 2011 11:37

Margaret,

If you have not already been in touch with these people, you will find a great deal of info here on your Shirley family:

http://www.shirleyassociation.com/NewShirleySite/index2.html

I cannot give you the direct link to the page where your people are detailed but I found if by googling :

"Joseph Shirley" +Barford

It gave me the link to the site above which also has connections to the one name study for this family.

I am sure there will be lots of interest on there for you.

Have to go out now - will check back later.

Dea x

Mel Fairy Godmother

Mel Fairy Godmother Report 16 Jul 2011 11:44

Wonder if this could be Joseph's mother a widow of an Ag Lab.

1861 England Census
about Elizabeth Shurley
Name: Elizabeth Shurley
Age: 59
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1802
Relation: Widow
Gender: Female
Where born: Barford St M, Oxfordshire, England

Civil parish: Barford St Michael
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Banbury
Sub-registration district: Bloxham
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 25
Piece: 914
Folio: 15
Page Number: 5
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Shurley 59
Mary Shurley 21


Margaret

Margaret Report 16 Jul 2011 12:54

Thanks to all of you for your input - Dea, you have hit the nail on the head, I will have to send for Joseph and Emma's marriage certificate to hopefully verify Joseph's father's name. I am still convinced that my Joseph's father was William Shirley and his mother was Elizabeth Gibbs. Yes the Shirley Association is a great website which has helped me tremendously - I haven't been back to it lately, there may be new info. so I'll check.
What started this query and threw me completely was the Queensland BDM death record of Joseph's father and mother's names.
Thanks once again to you all :-)