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william jonthan or jonathan william shaw

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Geraldine

Geraldine Report 15 Sep 2011 11:07

my william/jonathan was born in 1872- 1874 he married mary ann cameron in 1893 in leeds they had children mary jane,william,jonathan,charles and annie. also 2 children who did not survive. he worked as a lineman on the railway. I cannot find anything prior to 1893, he died in 1929 in leeds. Can anyone help

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 15 Sep 2011 11:13

From the information you have given, you have found him on the 1911 census. Where did he give for his birthplace please?

Researching:

PricklyHolly

PricklyHolly Report 15 Sep 2011 11:19

1911 census - household transcription
Person: SHAW, Jonathan
Address: 1 Coxon St Holbeck Leeds

SHAW, Jonathan Head Married M 37 1874 Labourer Railway Worker Yorks Leeds VIEW
SHAW, Mary Ann Wife Married F 36 1875 Yorks Leeds VIEW
SHAW, Mary Jane Daughter Single F 17 1894 Wollen Sorter Yorks Leeds VIEW
SHAW, William Son Single M 11 1900 Yorks Leeds VIEW
SHAW, Johnathan Son Single M 8 1903 Yorks Leeds VIEW
SHAW, Charles L Son Single M 6 1905 Yorks Leeds VIEW
CAMERON, William Boarder Single M 34 1877 Slider Yorks Leeds VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
27194 Reference:
RG14PN27194 RG78PN1554 RD502 SD1 ED18 SN26

Registration District:
Holbeck Sub District:
Holbeck Enumeration District:
18 Parish:
Holbeck

Address:
1 Coxon St Holbeck Leeds County:
Yorkshire (West riding)

Researching:
"If I don't see you through the week.........I will see you through the window". :o))

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 15 Sep 2011 11:20

1901 - for info.

Name: William Shaw
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary A Shaw
Gender: Male
Where born: Leeds, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Wortley
Ecclesiastical parish: Tong Road St Mary
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Registration district: Bramley
Sub-registration district: Wortley [Near Leeds]
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 13
Piece: 4209
Folio: 94
Page Number: 3
Household Members: Name Age
William Shaw 27
Mary A Shaw 26
Jane Shaw 8
William Shaw 2
William Cameron 21 Boarder
Charles Jasper 20 Visitor



What was his father's name on the marriage certificate please?

Marriages Jun 1893
Cameron Mary Ann Bramley 9b 519 <<<<<<<
Hawkesworth Edwin Bramley 9b 519
Long Laura Frances L Bramley 9b 519
Shaw Jonathan Bramley 9b 519 <<<<<<

Researching:

PricklyHolly

PricklyHolly Report 15 Sep 2011 11:26

West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921
about Jonathan Shaw
Name: Jonathan Shaw
Birth Year: abt 1872
Age: 21
Marriage or Bann Date: 1 Apr 1893
Parish: New Wortley, Holy Trinity, Armley Hall
Father's Name: William Shaw
Spouse's Name: Mary Ann Cameron
Spouse's Father's Name: Charles Cameron

Researching:
"If I don't see you through the week.........I will see you through the window". :o))

PricklyHolly

PricklyHolly Report 15 Sep 2011 11:28

??

1881 England Census
about William Shaw
Name: William Shaw
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William Shaw
Mother's Name: Margaret Shaw
Gender: Male
Where born: Leeds, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Leeds
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: 10 Bell Street
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: North Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4516
Folio: 135
Page Number: 27
Household Members:
Name Age
William Shaw 50
Margaret Shaw 48 Born Scotland
Mary Shaw 19 Born Scotland
Eliza Shaw 12
Elizzie Shaw 9
William Shaw 7

Researching:
"If I don't see you through the week.........I will see you through the window". :o))

PricklyHolly

PricklyHolly Report 15 Sep 2011 11:31

??

West Yorkshire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about William Shaw
Name: William Shaw
Birth Date: 25 Nov 1873
Parish: Leeds, St Thomas, Leylands
Baptism Date: 31 Oct 1876
Father's Name: William Shaw
Mother's Name: Margaret Shaw

Researching:
"If I don't see you through the week.........I will see you through the window". :o))

PricklyHolly

PricklyHolly Report 15 Sep 2011 11:52

1891 England Census
about William Shaw
Name: William Shaw
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Margaret Shaw
Gender: Male
Where born: Leeds, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Leeds
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
Town: Leeds
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: North Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3688
Folio: 106
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
Margaret Shaw 56 (Widow) Rosbroshire Scotland
Elizabeth Shaw 19
William Shaw 16
Maggie Hartley 12 (Visitor)

Researching:
"If I don't see you through the week.........I will see you through the window". :o))

PricklyHolly

PricklyHolly Report 15 Sep 2011 12:01

??

Deaths Dec 1885 (>99%)
Shaw William 56 Leeds 9b 260

Deaths Sep 1889 (>99%)
Shaw William 60 Leeds 9b 292

Researching:
"If I don't see you through the week.........I will see you through the window". :o))

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 15 Sep 2011 12:10

I wonder how accurate the information was that they gave for the census. In 1911 Mary Ann's brother William is 2 years younger than her and in 1901 he is 4 years younger. I can't see Mary Ann and her brother William on earlier census with their father Charles but wondered about this family where both the parents were born in Leeds.

1891

Name: Mary Ann Cameron
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Charles Cameron
Mother's Name: Ann Cameron
Gender: Female
Where born: Darlington, Durham, England

Civil parish: Bishop Wearmouth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke
Town: Sunderland
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Sunderland
Sub-registration district: North Bishop Wearmouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 17a
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4131
Folio: 70
Page Number: 64
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Cameron 60
Ann Cameron 55
Isabella Cameron 20
Mary Ann Cameron 18
David Cameron 14
William Cameron 12


1881

Name: Mary A. Cameron
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Charles Cameron
Mother's Name: Ann Cameron
Gender: Female
Where born: Darlington, Durham, England

Civil parish: Bishopwearmouth
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street Address: 30 Duke St
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Sunderland
Sub-registration district: North Bishop Wearmouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4988
Folio: 34
Page Number: 62
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Cameron 49
Ann Cameron 42
John Cameron 24
Thomas Cameron 21
George Cameron 19
Charles Cameron 13
Isabella Cameron 11
Mary A. Cameron 9
Elizabeth Cameron 7
David Cameron 4
William Cameron 2

Researching:

PricklyHolly

PricklyHolly Report 15 Sep 2011 12:15

Sister Mary.....

Marriages Dec 1881 (>99%)
Fenton James Leeds 9b 744 Scan available - click to view
Shaw Mary Leeds 9b 744


1891 England Census
about Mary Fenton
Name: Mary Fenton
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: James Fenton
Gender: Female
Where born: Sheh, Scotland

Civil parish: Leeds
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
Town: Leeds
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: North Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3688
Folio: 105
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
James Fenton 32
Mary Fenton 29
James Willey Fenton 7
Nelly Fenton 4
John Fenton 2

Researching:
"If I don't see you through the week.........I will see you through the window". :o))

PricklyHolly

PricklyHolly Report 15 Sep 2011 12:19

1901 England Census
about James Fenton
Name: James Fenton
Age: 43
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Fenton
Gender: Male
Where born: Leeds, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Leeds
Ecclesiastical parish: Leeds St Mary
Town: Leeds
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: North Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 80
Piece: 4223
Folio: 44
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
James Fenton 43
Mary Fenton 39
James M Fenton 17
Nellie Fenton 14
John Fenton 12
Ernest Fenton 7
Joseph Fenton 1


Mary Died.....

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
about Mary Fenton
Name: Mary Fenton
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1901
Age at Death: 39
Registration district: Leeds
Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
Volume: 9b
Page: 323

and James remarried...

Marriages Dec 1902 (>99%)
Fenton James Leeds 9b 934
Oldham Matilda Leeds 9b 934

Researching:
"If I don't see you through the week.........I will see you through the window". :o))

PricklyHolly

PricklyHolly Report 15 Sep 2011 12:20

1911 census - household transcription
Person: FENTON, James
Address: 21 Goxhill St Leeds

FENTON, James Head Married M 53 1858 Green Grocer Leeds Yorkshire VIEW
FENTON, Matilda Wife Married
9 years F 58 1853 Lincoln VIEW
FENTON, Joe Son M 11 1900 Scholar Leeds Yorkshire VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
26997 Reference:
RG14PN26997 RG78PN1548A RD500 SD3 ED16 SN249

Registration District:
Leeds Sub District:
West Leeds Enumeration District:
16 Parish:
Leeds

Address:
21 Goxhill St Leeds County:
Yorkshire (West riding)

Researching:
"If I don't see you through the week.........I will see you through the window". :o))

Jill 2011 (aka Warrior Princess of Cilla!)

Jill 2011 (aka Warrior Princess of Cilla!) Report 15 Sep 2011 12:20

You need his marriage certificate. If he's Jonathan from his marriage onwards and William from before his marriage then how (at the moment) do you know he's one and the same man? These could be two separate people.

Jill

Researching:
London: Faber, Haysey, Spicer ...

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 15 Sep 2011 12:31

Jill, if we have the correct census for 1911 (where he is Jonathan) and 1901 (where he gives his name as William) it looks like it is the same person.

Researching:

Jill 2011 (aka Warrior Princess of Cilla!)

Jill 2011 (aka Warrior Princess of Cilla!) Report 15 Sep 2011 13:13

Ah - missed that bit. However, I would still advise getting that marriage cert.

Jill

Researching:
London: Faber, Haysey, Spicer ...

Geraldine

Geraldine Report 17 Sep 2011 10:36

I have the 1893 marriage certificate for William/Jonathan. He married as jonathan, Mary ann cameron was born in loughborough. her mother was Mary Birchall and father charles cameron. Jonathan's father was william working as iron worker. In 1901 census jonathan was named as william, in 1911 named as Jonathan. His death certificate names him as Jonathan William , bu t his grave stone names him as Wiiliam J. These facts are all correct, as i've verified them by, people living with them were named as witnesses on their marriage certificate. Mary ann does not have any connections with darlington. The addresses are all correct from family knowledge. The problem is We do not know of any siblings of william/ jonathan.

It is so frustrating

Geraldine

PricklyHolly

PricklyHolly Report 17 Sep 2011 13:52

Perhaps somone can verify this............

But i wonder if father Williams death certificate would state his occupation at the time of his death?

Researching:
"If I don't see you through the week.........I will see you through the window". :o))

Geraldine

Geraldine Report 7 Oct 2012 15:41

Mary ann cameron was born in loughborough i have her birth certificate 23/11/1873
father charles I have census from 1840 thru to1911 all children born in different places. her father worked in ironworks i think maybe conected to railway development,