Profile | Posted by | Options | Post Date |
|
Marc
|
Report
|
26 Sep 2011 20:20 |
Can someone help me with a birth date and mother's name for John?
His death record in 1867, parish of Ceres, (GROS statutory deaths 415/00 0016) has him as husband of Helen Gourlay, father Thomas Chalmers(deceased).
His marriage record 1831 (GROS OPR Marriages415/00 0040 0210 Ceres) states Chambers, John & Hellen Gourlay both in this parish.
1861 Census(Parish of Ceres) has him, age 54, living in Hilty, Ceres with his birth as Midlothian, Pennycuick.
1851 Census(Parish of Ceres) has him, age 45, living in Backbraes, Ceres with his birth as Midlothian, Pennycuick.
1841 Census(Parish of Largo) has him, age 30, living in Woodside with birth listed as in this parish.
I have from somewhere that his parents were Thomas Chalmers and Christian Scott but have lost where i got that from, so can't confirm it as i havent got evidence to back it up.
Anyone got any ideas??
Marc
|
|
rootgatherer
|
Report
|
26 Sep 2011 20:40 |
Who was the informant on his death certificate please?
Could it be that his mother died when he was very young and that is why she isn't named on the death?
|
|
Marc
|
Report
|
26 Sep 2011 21:04 |
Informant was son William.
No idea about his mother dying young as i have no other information regarding John's mother or siblings.
|
|
AnnCardiff
|
Report
|
26 Sep 2011 21:48 |
parents: Peter Chalmers,? Margaret Driver
name: John Chalmers gender: Male baptism/christening date: 18 Oct 1805 baptism/christening place: , SOUTH LEITH, MIDLOTHIAN, SCOTLAND birth date: 11 Oct 1805 father's name: Peter Chalmers mother's name: Margaret Driver indexing project (batch) number: C19503-8 system origin: Scotland-VR source film number: 1067779
|
|
AnnCardiff
|
Report
|
26 Sep 2011 21:53 |
???
parents: George Chalmers,? Ann Glasgow
name: Thomas Chalmers gender: Male baptism/christening date: 11 Oct 1784 baptism/christening place: CANONGATE, EDINBURGH, MIDLOTHIAN, SCOTLAND birth date: 06 Oct 1784 father's name: George Chalmers mother's name: Ann Glasgow indexing project (batch) number: C11999-7 system origin: Scotland-VR source film number: 1067742
|
|
Marc
|
Report
|
26 Sep 2011 22:23 |
Definetly says Thomas on the death record Ann, although we all know that they are not always correct.
|
|
rootgatherer
|
Report
|
27 Sep 2011 08:48 |
I don't see anything obvious (or otherwise) coming up Marc. Do you think that John and Helen used family names for their children (thinking of the Scottish naming pattern)? William seems to have been their first born son but then if he was named for his paternal grandfather you would have thought that he would have known that and he registered his father's death.
|
|
Marc
|
Report
|
27 Sep 2011 12:43 |
I couldn't find anything obvious either rootgatherer but William wasn't there first born son, I have Thomas born 1833 (no specific date though), who i believe may have died very young. So the Scottish naming pattern would stand of that is the case. :-S
|
|
Helen
|
Report
|
27 Sep 2011 15:49 |
These are the children of John Chalmers and Helen Gourlay. If they were following the naming pattern for their children, it looks likely Christina would have been John's mother's name. However, there is no birth or christening record for a John Chalmers with parents Thomas and Christina / Christian.
Father: John Chalmers, Mother: Helen Gourlay
Children: ISOBEL CHALMERS - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 26 FEB 1832 Ceres, Fife, Scotland
THOMAS CHALMERS - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 30 SEP 1833 Ceres, Fife, Scotland
THOMAS CHALMERS - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 23 MAY 1834 Ceres, Fife, Scotland
CHRISTINA CHALMERS - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Birth: 06 MAR 1835 Ceres, Fife, Scotland
WILLIAM CHALMERS - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Birth: 03 JUL 1837 Ceres, Fife, Scotland
HELEN CHALMERS - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Birth: 22 AUG 1839 Largo, Fife, Scotland
CATHERINE CHALMERS - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Birth: 24 AUG 1841 Largo, Fife, Scotland
MARY CHALMERS - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Birth: 24 JUL 1843 Largo, Fife, Scotland
|
|
Marc
|
Report
|
27 Sep 2011 19:48 |
Thanks Helen.
I had found them on family search. Not sure which Thomas is correct though. I have in actual fact found 10 children listed as having John and Helen as parents.
Still doesn't help with getting my question answered but thank you for taking the time to look for me.
I probably should have listed children that were on the census records when i posted originally. My apologies.
|
|
Marc
|
Report
|
27 Sep 2011 20:07 |
Just for information this is what is on census records.
1841 Census, Largo John Chalmers 30 born this parish Hellen Chalmers 30 born this parish Isabell Chalmers 9 born this parish Thomas Chalmers 7 born this parish Christian Chalmers 5 born this parish William Chalmers 3 born this parish Hellen Chalmers 9mth born this parish
1851 Census, Ceres John Chalmers 45 born Midlothian, Pennycuick Helen Chalmers 42 born Ceres William Chalmers 12 born Ceres Helen Chalmers 10 born Largo Catharaine Chalmers 8 born Largo Mary Chalmers 6 born Largo
1861 Census, Ceres John Chalmers 54 born Midlothian, Pennycuick Helen Chalmers 50 born Ceres Helen Chalmers 19 born Largo Euphemia Chalmers 13 born Dysart Agnes Chalmers 11 born Ceres John Chalmers 8 born Ceres James Barclay(grand child) 3 born Ceres
These census records throw up other question i have yet to answer too. Some children missing from census records that they should have been in.
|
|
Helen
|
Report
|
27 Sep 2011 21:06 |
Concerning the two Thomas Chalmers. I had a free search on Scotlandspeople to check out the christening dates on familysearch were recorded correctly .. and they were.
Obviously, the two Thomas' couldn't have been born in the short space of time to the same parents. The only thing I can think of is there is a mistake in the birth date of the second Thomas (25th Dec 1833) but the correct christening date (23rd May 1834)
Unfortunately, you would need to download the two records to check this out. Could also be the dates were mis-recorded in the Parish record.
|
|
Marc
|
Report
|
28 Sep 2011 12:50 |
Thanks for your help Helen.
A bit more researching for me still to do i guess.
|
|
ellieathome
|
Report
|
28 Sep 2011 16:19 |
1841 Name: John Chalmers Age: 30 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811 Gender: Male Where born: Fife, Scotland Civil parish: Largo County: Fife Address: Woodside Occupation: Coal M Parish Number: 443 Household Members: Name Age John Chalmers 30 Hellen Chalmers 30 Isabell Chalmers 9 -c1832 Thomas Chalmers 7 -c1834 Christian Chalmers 5 -c1836 William Chalmers 3 -c1838 Hellen Chalmers 9 -c1840
I have Gourleys on my tree ,but can't place these .but Christian and Euphemia are family names for me . John states he's from Fife?
|
|
ellieathome
|
Report
|
28 Sep 2011 16:36 |
There are only 1 set of Banns.
Ellie
|
|
ellieathome
|
Report
|
28 Sep 2011 16:41 |
They married 5Nov. Isabel Feb. 1832 Thomas Sept.1833
You think they may be a child between these 2
Ellie
|
|
ellieathome
|
Report
|
28 Sep 2011 16:50 |
There are no other births on the IGI between Isabell and Thomas,and only 1 Thomas with those parents Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950 Thomas Chalmers birth: 28 Aug 1833 residence: 1833 Fife,? Scotland parents: John Chalmers,? Helen Gourlay
Ellie
|
|
ellieathome
|
Report
|
28 Sep 2011 17:24 |
They are following the Naming pattern as Helen's mother was Isabel Duncan.
Ellie
|
|
Marc
|
Report
|
28 Sep 2011 18:16 |
Hi ellieathome,
There are two records with slight differences on IGI, please see below, probably transcription errors somewhere i am guessing but not sure how you can transcribe december to august or vice versa.
It is stated John is from fife on 1841 census but from pennycuick in 1851 & 1861??? Confusing!
On the marriage record for John and Hellen there is also a record for John Gourlay & Christian Wilson, are these part of your tree? What information do you have regarding Hellen's birth?
Name: Thomas Chalmers Gender: Male Baptism/Christening Date: 23 May 1834 Baptism/Christening Place: CERES,FIFE,SCOTLAND Birth Date: 25 Dec 1833 Birthplace: Death Date: Name Note: Race: Father's Name: John Chalmers Father's Birthplace: Father's Age: Mother's Name: Hellen Gourlay Mother's Birthplace: Mother's Age: Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11415-7 System Origin: Scotland-ODM Source Film Number: 1040155 Reference Number:
Name: Thomas Chalmers Gender: Male Baptism/Christening Date: 30 Sep 1833 Baptism/Christening Place: CERES,FIFE,SCOTLAND Birth Date: 28 Aug 1833 Birthplace: Death Date: Name Note: Race: Father's Name: John Chalmers Father's Birthplace: Father's Age: Mother's Name: Helen Gourlay Mother's Birthplace: Mother's Age: Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11415-7 System Origin: Scotland-ODM Source Film Number: 1040155 Reference Number:
Marc
|
|
ellieathome
|
Report
|
28 Sep 2011 23:30 |
I have the other Thomas now ,which i feel is very funny!. HELEN GOURLAY Christening: 29 MAY 1808 Cameron, Fife, Scotland Father: WILLIAM GOURLAY Family Mother: ISABEL DUNCAN
I think this Willliam is deceased before the 1851 Census. William and Isabell marry 28 JUL 1804 Cameron, Fife, Scotland I have a William Gourley 1774 Colinsburgh,but no proof it's your William Gourley.It's in the area
Cameron parish contains the villages of Lathones, Peat Inn, Radernie and part of Denhead. It measures about 6 miles by 4 miles, and is bounded by St Andrews, Denino, Carnbee, Kilconquhar and Ceres My William was Bapts.at Kilconquhar
Ellie
|