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I am looking in the proverbial haystack for a John Roberts in the Liverpool/Bootle areas of Lancashire.

I have the marriage of John in 1868 to Mary Mawdsley in Liverpool

I have the baptism of his first child Mary Ellen in 1869 in Bootle

I have not found the family in the 1871 census,

BUT I have found Mary in the 1881 census with her two sons, and a lodger George Massie. Mary is recorded as a labourers wife. If she is recorded as a labourers wife and not Head, I presume that John was away from the house during that census, but I cannot find him.

John Roberts died prior to the 1891 census but was still alive in 1881.

Can fresh eyes find the family for me in 1871

Kathlyn (fingers crossed)

How old was he on his marriage cert and who was his father ?

If you've found Mary in 1881, you should be able to tell us when and where she was born and the names of her sons.

We need to know what you already know.

is this the 1881 census you have?

Address: 11, Minshull St 2 Court, West Derby

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Disability Where Born

ROBERTS, Mary Head Married F 32 1849 General Labourers Wife Kirkby Lancashire
ROBERTS, John R Son Single M 7 1874 Scholar Liverpool Lancashire
ROBERTS, William Son Single M 5 1876 Scholar Liverpool Lancashire
MASSIE, George Boarder Married M 40 1841 Flour Dealer Assistant Waverton Cheshire

Hello Mark,

Ther info you asked about has just been given by Tempest. Mary was born in Kirkby, Lancashire

Kathlyn

It's Mike, and I asked for age and father's name from the marriage cert.
Without knowing how old they were when married, they could just as easily be this couple for all I knew. ( especially given the name they gave their first born)

Household: 1881

John ROBERTS Head Lodger M Male 51 Liverpool, Lancashire, England General Porter
Mary Ellen ROBERTS Wife M Female 40 Liverpool, Lancashire, England


Dwelling 6 Atkinson St Lodging House
Census Place Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Mary Ellen's baptism

Liverpool, Lancashire, England, Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Mary Ellen Roberts Name: Mary Ellen Roberts
Birth Date: abt 1869
Baptism Date: 2 Aug 1869
Parish: Bootle St John
Father's Name: John Roberts
Mother's Name: Mary Roberts

father was a joiner living at 23 Camden Street

A John Roberts age 25 shows up as a visitor with Anne Roberts (Unmarried maybe sister) 1871 Census ref; Class: RG10; Piece: 3788; Folio: 25; Page: 43; GSU roll: 841896. The handwriting on the original is terrible. Good luck

Tempest, yes that is the baptism of Mary Ellen

The marriage cert for John and Mary states....

19th August 1868

John Roberts, Batchelor
full age,
occupation,
Carter,
address, Duckinfield
father, Robert Roberts, father occupation looks like mariner.

Mary Mawdsley,
minor, (Mary was born in Kirkby in 1851)
Spinster
Father, James Mawdsley, a quarryman

No 23 Cambden Street, Bootle


1871

ROBERTS, John Head M 44 1827 Lancashire VIEW (Joiner)
ROBERTS, Agness Wife F 40 1831 Lancashire VIEW
ROBERTS, Alice Jane Daughter F 19 1852 Lancashire VIEW
ROBERTS, Emily Daughter F 9 1862 Lancashire VIEW
ROBERTS, Mary A Daughter F 7 1864 Lancashire VIEW
ROBERTS, Annie G Daughter F 5 1866 Lancashire VIEW
ROBERTS, Edith Daughter F 2 1869 Lancashire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG10 Piece:
3832 Folio:
127 Page:
44

Registration District:
West Derby Sub District:
Walton Enumeration District:
6A Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Bootle Municipal Borough:
Bootle Address:
Cambden Street, Bootle County:
Lancashire

There is this one ......




JOHN ROBERTS --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 08 FEB 1846 Saint Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: ROBERT ROBERTS
Mother: JANE

AOTW.....The writing has given me a headache, I bet he got no prizes at school for handwriting!!!

I am inclined to say no, this is more than likely a husband and wife who were visiting.

It begs the question...Why did I not ask granddad about his father whilst he was still alive. But then I think we can all say this.

many thanks for your asprin and glass of water, I think a shotgun would be better. lol

Kathlyn

What's AOTW ?

Abbreviation of poster's name (Alan On The Wirral)

Thanks MC !

Kathlyn

Do you know what happened to Mary Ellen?

I note the marriage of John and Mary Maudsley has John as a Carter
yet his occupation at Mary Ellen's baptism is Joiner


Vera

Kathlyn



I hate to say this


but I have seen censuses a number of times where a woman says she's Wife, but her husband is dead.


I have one who said Wife on 2 censuses after husband died ........ and I have the certificate to prove it!




sylvia

There is this one in 1871, the forename Joseph is clearly an approximation of the forename as the census page is in terrible condition:

Person: ROBERTS, Mary Ellen
Address: Parr Street, Parr, St Helen

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

???, John H Head M 32 1839 Lancashire VIEW
???, Elizabeth Wife F 31 1840 Lancashire VIEW
???, Alice Ann Daughter F 8 1863 Lancashire VIEW
???, Martha Daughter F 6 1865 Lancashire VIEW
???, Elizabeth Ellen Daughter F 2 1869 Lancashire VIEW
ROBERTS, Joseph* Head M 30 1841 Lancashire VIEW
ROBERTS, Mary Wife F 27 1844 Lancashire VIEW
ROBERTS, Mary Ellen Daughter F 3 1868 Lancashire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG10 Piece:
3865 Folio:
82 Page:
39

Registration District:
Prescot Sub District:
St Helen Enumeration District:
19 Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Parr Municipal Borough:
St Helen Address:
Parr Street, Parr, St Helen County:
Lancashire

Kathlyn,

Vere has made a point above about John's occupation on marriage cert.

You say 'Carter' - Could you look again please and see if it 'may' be 'Carpenter'??

Dea x

Kathlyn, are you absolutely sure that the Mary Ellen whose baptism is shown above is your Mary Ellen and that her parents were John Roberts and Mary Mawdsley? I'm asking because the census information for 23 Camden Street in 1871 and that for 1881 have so few points of reference. Furthermore, this 1891 family looks to be the couple from the 1871 census for Camden Street, with two daughters still at home:

Civil parish: Burscough
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Ormskirk
Sub-registration district: Scarisbrick
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3041
Folio: 97
Page Number: 9
Household Members: Name Age
John Roberts 66
Aonas Roberts 61
Annie Grace Roberts 25
Edith Roberts 21
William H Maccormack 7

Father is shown as a House joiner.