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James Hewett Orrell circa 1825/26 Lancs.

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Lesley

Lesley Report 21 Jan 2013 14:06

Hi
I have just seen this while looking for something else! We are vaguely related as William's father, James, was elder brother to my gggf , John Orrell 1785-1848. I don't know whether you have solved the mystery yet! I can be contacted on laorrell@yahoo.com as my genes reunited sub is abt to run out .


Lesley

wellybobs

wellybobs Report 19 Oct 2011 17:12

Hi,
just got back to this today, many thanks for the info. I have to say that I am leaning towards your idea Mike and mgnv that James Hewett was born to Elizabeth before she married William and he took his name added to Hewett.
I have not been able to find a death for William Jnr but I did find him listed as the 1st son of William and Elizabeth, abode Ince and baptized at All Saints Wigan.
By the time of the 1841 census he would have been 16 and I suppose it is possible he was working away from the family home, I don't think it was uncommon for this to happen, particularly if they had obtained "a living in" occupation.

mgnv

mgnv Report 19 Oct 2011 06:42

I'm guessing these are your William & his brother John in 1841:

John Orrell abt 1801 Lancashire, England Wigan , Lancashire
Alice Orrell abt 1806 Lancashire, England Wigan , Lancashire
Elizabeth Orrell abt 1830 Lancashire, England Wigan , Lancashire
John Orrell abt 1833 Lancashire, England Wigan , Lancashire
Ann Orrell abt 1836 Lancashire, England Wigan , Lancashire
James Orrell abt 1840 Lancashire, England Wigan , Lancashire

William Orrell abt 1806 Lancashire, England Wigan , Lancashire
Elizabeth Orrell abt 1806 Lancashire, England Wigan , Lancashire
James Orrell abt 1826 Lancashire, England Wigan , Lancashire
Jane Orrell abt 1831 Lancashire, England Wigan , Lancashire
Maryann Orrell abt 1831 Lancashire, England Wigan , Lancashire
Elizabeth Orrell abt 1836 Lancashire, England Wigan , Lancashire
John Orrell abt 1837 Lancashire, England Wigan , Lancashire
[ho107/522/13/10/13]


Baptism: 23 Jul 1837 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
John Orrell - Second Son of William Orrell & Elizabeth
Born: 28 May
Abode: Ince
Occupation: Miner
Baptised by: J. K. Glazebrook
Register: Baptisms 1836 - 1838, Page 142, Entry 1135
Source: LDS Film 1885678

so we know James wasn't younger than William.
I think the obvious conclusion is that James was born James Hewett, and later added his stepfather's surname.
I would also guess William Jr has died, although unlike Ellen (the deceased 3rd daur), there's no burial listed at Wigan All Saints.

lancashireAnn

lancashireAnn Report 18 Oct 2011 23:56

just for interest - on your other post you were looking at the marriage of James' son which was not at that time on lan-opc - it is now

Marriage: 5 Jul 1879 Christ Church, Adlington, Lancashire, England
William Orrell - 23 Bookeeper Bachelor of Ince
Elizabeth Moss - 22 Weaver Spinster of Adlington
Groom's Father: James Orrell, Plate Layer
Bride's Father: Thomas Moss, Fireman
Witness: James Hampson; Jane Pilkington
Married by Banns by: Thos Carpenter Vicar
Register: Marriages 1876 - 1886, Page 31, Entry 61
Source: LDS 1526077

wellybobs

wellybobs Report 18 Oct 2011 20:40

Hey you might have something there.

All I know about Elizabeth so far is that she married William Orrell at All Saints Wigan on 30th October,1825.
the parish record shows the mark (X) of Elizabeth Hewett of parish of Wigan and they were married by banns.

Thats one to certainly explore a bit further, thanks so much.

Mike *

Mike * Report 18 Oct 2011 19:07

I keep coming back to this one and wondering where Elizabeth was from prior to marriage?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


JAMES HEWITT
Event(s):
Birth: 11 JUL 1824 Barker Street Baptist, Nantwich, Cheshire, England

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Mother: ELIZABETH HEWITT

wellybobs

wellybobs Report 18 Oct 2011 19:00

Hi Mike,
thanks for taking the time to look into this
I think it is interesting that William Orrell born 5/10/1825 was also baptized some 3 months after he was born and by then his mother Elizabeth and William were married, so it may be possible that he was named Hewett somewhere, but with there being no "register" as such other than parish records I guess I will not find it??
What I am not sure of is why on the census there is no mention of a William who is listed as the 1st son of Elizabeth and William in the parish records.
Your theory on the base son of Ann Orrell is interesting but why would they put Hewett as his middle name, which it is on his marriage certificate.
I don't mind a mystery so long as I can solve it :-(

Mike *

Mike * Report 18 Oct 2011 18:15

Stab in the dark ....

Maybe taken into the family from a relation ?

Baptisms: 12 Feb 1826 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
James Orrell - Base Son of Ann Orrell
Born: 29 Nov 1825
Abode: Pemberton
Baptised by: Edwd. Hill Curate


Baptised aged almost 3 months

Mike *

Mike * Report 18 Oct 2011 18:08


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Born before parents marriage so maybe William was registered as Hewett. .
...


WILLIAM ORRELL
Event(s):
Birth: 05 OCT 1825

Christening: 08 JAN 1826 Wigan, Lancashire, England

Parents:
Father: WILLIAM ORRELL
Mother: ELIZABETH

--------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


WILLIAM ORRELL --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages:
Spouse: ELIZABETH HEWETT
Marriage: 30 OCT 1825 Wigan, Lancashire, England




wellybobs

wellybobs Report 18 Oct 2011 17:47

Hi LA,
sorry about that, according to his marriage cert he was resident in Ince in 1854 and it looks as though he stayed in Petticoat lane for most of his life, along with his children after his wife died.
Also his occupation is listed as plate layeron his son Williams marriagecert.

My main concern is that he is not named along with his brother John and his sisters at LOPC but the first son for William and Elizabeth is named as William, could the vicar have got confused do you think? as there is no William on any of the census with the same brother and sisters?

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 18 Oct 2011 17:35

James Orrell
England and Wales Census, 1841
birth: 1826 Lancashire
residence: 1841 Bolton,? Lancashire,? England
census: 1841 Bolton,? Lancashire,? England


name: James Orrell
event: Census
event date: 1841
gender: Male
age: 15
birthplace: Lancashire
record type: Household
registration district: Bolton
sub-district: Sharples
civil parish: Bolton
county: Lancashire

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 18 Oct 2011 17:34

James Orrell
England and Wales Census, 1861
birth: 1826 Halliwell,? Lancashire
residence: 1861 Halliwell,? Lancashire,? England
census: 1861 Halliwell,? Lancashire,? England


name: James Orrell
event: Census
event date: 1861
gender: Male
age: 35
relationship to head of household: Son
birthplace: Halliwell, Lancashire
record type: Household
registration district: Bolton
sub-district: 4 Halliwell
ecclesiastical parish: St Peters
civil parish: Halliwell
county: Lancashire

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 18 Oct 2011 17:34

James Orrell
England and Wales Census, 1861
birth: 1826 Lamberhead Green,? Lancashire
residence: 1861 Haydock,? Lancashire,? England
census: 1861 Haydock,? Lancashire,? England


name: James Orrell
event: Census
event date: 1861
gender: Male
age: 35
relationship to head of household: Head
birthplace: Lamberhead Green, Lancashire
record type: Household
registration district: Warrington
sub-district: 1 Newton-In-Mackerfield
ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas Ashton
civil parish: Haydock
county: Lancashire

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 18 Oct 2011 17:32

1826 dob on the 11881 census

James ORRELL Head W Male 55 Wigan, Lancashire, England Platelayer On Ry


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling 2 Petticoat Lane Top End Vally
Census Place Ince In Makerfield, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341903
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3777 / 122
Page Number 61

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 18 Oct 2011 17:32

where in Lancashire please?

wellybobs

wellybobs Report 18 Oct 2011 17:24

Hello Everyone,
not been on the boards for a little while. I am hoping you can help me, I kept hitting brick walls with the Duckworths,etc so decided to go back to the "other side" of my tree and try to find details on Elizabeth Hewett, but got myself hooked on her son James as I cannot find his birth. This is linked to a previous post, (I tell you that before someone else does!!).the URL is as follows:
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/ancestors/orrell/thread
1181735
My problem is that when I looked at the 1841 and 1851 census Elizabeth and her husband William Orrell are there with their children, one of which is listed as James c 1825/26.
But when I go into Lancashire on line parish records I find all the children listed except James and that the 1st son of Elizabeth and William is given as William born 5/10/1825 I know that Elizabeth and William were married 30/10/1825 but I cannot find any record of a James Hewett Orrell.
That is the name on his marriage cert to Elizabeth Livsey and his father is listed as William Orrell.
Any ideas would be welcome, I don't think I have gone down the wrong track because everything following on from this seems to fit but any help you can give will be much appreciated.
Many thanks. M.