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Enie D N Forder

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


rootgatherer Report 26 Nov 2011 12:16

Well looks like Cedric Carash was actually Cedric Sheffield?


Name: Cedric Sheffield
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1893
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Clapton, London, England

Civil parish: Croydon
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Town: Croydon
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street Address:


Condition as to marriage:


Employment status: View image

Registration district: Croydon
Sub-registration district: Croydon
ED, institution, or vessel: 94
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 74
Piece: 650
Folio: 43
Page Number: 12
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Sheffield 63
Esther L Sheffield 21
Cedric Sheffield 8


rootgatherer Report 26 Nov 2011 12:28

Deaths Dec 1894 CARASH Reginald Leonard M 0 Croydon 2a 149
He seems to be the twin of Grace?
Births Jun 1894
Micklewright Grace Isla Fulham 1a 254
Micklewright Reginald Leonard Fulham 1a 254

Deaths Mar 1895 Carash Grace Isla M 1 Croydon 2a 236

Births Jun 1895 Carash Ruby Dorothy Croydon 2a 241


Lucy Report 26 Nov 2011 12:33

There is alot of information here i need a recap on whos whos i cant make sense of it now

Ruby G Gordon was my nans mum

Ruby G Gordons mother maiden name was Carash

This as far as i get after this its gets confusing,

On the above who is Ruby G Gordons mother and father dont know which bit this is?


Lucy Report 26 Nov 2011 12:48

Can i have a recap i am quite confused

My nans mum Ruby G Gordon her mums maiden name was Carash can you break down what the information is,

We know ruby married john in 1939 we do not think she was married before or after just had a partner who we all called ted, but think his name was Arthur,

Ruby was a twin and had a brother called Douglas so there births must be the same currently i am trying to find rubys death record to see what her name was when she died if she did remarry after.

Could you please break down the information above

Many Thanks


Lucy Report 26 Nov 2011 13:00



rootgatherer Report 26 Nov 2011 13:05

Sorry I think it is confusing!

The 1914 birth for Ruby G Gordon indicates that her mother's maiden name is Carash.

On FreeBMD there is no marriage for a Mr. Gordon to a Miss Carash. So at this point we do not know who her parents are.

Flick found a marriage for Emma Georgina Carash in 1906 to William Garner. Using Ancestry that Emma was a widow when she married and her father's name was Joseph Sheffield.

There arn't too many Carash entries on FreeBMD. I posted a London Marriage for a Cedric Carash that was witnesses by Emma G. I suspect that she was his mother but was never married to a Mr. Carash as see appeared to have another couple of children who died in infancy with the surname Carash although the births were registered as Micklewright. The only birth that I can see registered as Carash is this one.

Births Jun 1895
Carash Ruby Dorothy Croydon 2a 241

I am still trying to find the birth for Cedric.

I am still trying to find Emma Georgina in 1901

I am still trying to find that Ruby Dorohy Carash in 1901.

Haven't found any of them in 1911

I will add the only other Carash entries from Freebmd in the relevant timescale and area in case they can be tied in later.

Births Mar 1897 Carash Claude Albert M Lambeth 1d 531
Deaths Mar 1897 CARASH Claude Albert M 0 Lambeth 1d 303

The later Carash entries on FreeBMD seem to stem from Cedric's marriage.


Lucy Report 26 Nov 2011 13:57

So is Carash a rare family name i am struggling to find things as well i knew this would be confusing...If Rubys mums maiden name was carash when she had a ruby maybe she just changed her name and did not remarry?

I am going to order rubys birth certficate i think this will be the best thing i can do to make sure who her pareant are

So we think Rubys mum was called Emma think there are alot of skeltons in this part of my family,

Do you know where i can a get ac opy of Rubys birth certicate from?

Many thanks for all your help


rootgatherer Report 26 Nov 2011 15:05

Lucy, wait until you get you Nan's birth certificate before you order anymore. Her birth certificate will give you the date and place of her parents' marriage.

If that confirms that this is the correct marriage

Marriages Dec 1939
Forder John J Gordon Camberwell 1d 2420
Gordon Ruby G Forder Camberwell 1d 2420

The order that marriage certificate as it should give you Ruby's father's name and occupation and confirm her age.

You probably need those to tie in the details when you get Ruby G Gordon's birth certificate - the one with the mmn Carash.

Looking on FreeBMD, it looks to me that there is only one Carash family in England and Wales. The all seem to be descended from Cedric whose birth isn't even registered as Carash!

Order English certificates online from here

You have all the details of Reg. District, Year, quarter, Volume and Page from FreeBMD.


rootgatherer Report 26 Nov 2011 15:06

I should add that I can find a Ruby Gordon with a twin called Douglas on Freebmd.

Sorry that should have read Can't find the twins births.


Lucy Report 26 Nov 2011 15:08


Thank you so much i think the two keys are my nans birth certificate and the marriage certificate this will then point me in the right direction.

Suppose its best to go one step at a time, very strang how carash came from cedric how do surnames change?

Many thanks


Lucy Report 26 Nov 2011 15:17

Found out his name was Dudley not Douglus i am searching to they must be born on the same day december 1914

This might make a difference


rootgatherer Report 26 Nov 2011 15:18

Oh they change so often. The mother remarries (or lives with another partner) and the kids chage their names to that of the step-father. Then they get marry and decide that they'll change back to the first name - all just to make it difficult for us to find them!

Did you notice that the children whose deaths were registed Carash - Reginald Leonard and Grace Isla were twins and that their births were registered as Micklewright? I suspect that their mother was Emma Georgina Sheffield sometime Micklewright sometime Carash sometime Garner sometime Caplin!!

Must go and have a look see if she married again?
I mean you would think that once bitten twice fly!


rootgatherer Report 26 Nov 2011 15:21

There was a year between Ruby and Dudley?

Births Dec 1913 Gordon Dudley B Carash Lambeth 1d 829

Births Dec 1914 GORDON Ruby G Carash Lambeth 1d 745


Lucy Report 26 Nov 2011 17:55

I want to check if my nanny ennie was adopted, we cant work out why they got married in camberwell in 1939 then moved all the way to aberdeen had my nan then come back, we cant see we have any coonection to scotlland our family is based in london

When i get the birth certificate would it say on there if she was adopted or is there another way i can check

In 1942 i dont know if you can records of adoption or where you can get them from any help would be great

Many Thanks


Lucy Report 26 Nov 2011 21:36

As previous any one know where I can find out if enie d n forder born in may 1942 in aberdeen could be adopted any pointers or help would be great really struggling don't know where to look many thanks


SylviaInCanada Report 26 Nov 2011 23:43


don't forget that it was during WW2 ...... people moved all over the country in war work.

There was horrendous bombing in London, and the whole family may have decided to move up to Scotland ........... maybe father got a job in ship building, or naval supplies.

Wait until you've got that birth certificate from Scotland's people before you start thinking of other possibilities.

The birth certificate will tell you the father's occupation, and that could well answer all your questions.



SylviaInCanada Report 26 Nov 2011 23:47

If your nan does turn out to be adopted, then it becomes difficult to get her adoption papers.

The adopted person can get access

If the adopted person is dead, then her spouse and children can, I believe, get access with proof of death.

Then I think it comes to an end, no-one else can access the files..




SylviaInCanada Report 27 Nov 2011 00:13

I note surnames Micklewright and Carash

which makes this baptism very intriguing to me!

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Claud Albert Carash

Name: Claud Albert Carash
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1897
Baptism Date: 12 Feb 1897
Father's Name: Micklewright Carash
Mother's Name: Georgina Carash
Parish or Poor Law Union: Brixton St Matthew
Borough: Lambeth
Register Type: Parish Registers

Father was a Civil Engineer

Thier address was 22 Kildoran Road, Clapham.

The baptism was Private.

and this is probbaly why the baptism was private

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915 about Claude Albert M Carash

Name: Claude Albert M Carash
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1897
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1897
Age at Death: 0
Registration district: Lambeth
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 303 (click to see others on page)

I cannot find a marriage fro a Georgina to a Micklewright Carash, nor can I find a Micklewright Carash!

BUT could this Georgina be the Emma Georgina Carash who married in 1906?



Lucy Report 27 Nov 2011 11:33

Emm yes this is very intresting I have ordered my nans birth certificate so I will se what her dads occupation was may answer some questions the information above of the baptism of georgina but I have been speaking to my nans sister norma who has told me that her nan married a gustav h n de becker who her dad always hated and said could be a spy from letters she has found her name on the marriage was georgina carash but on the birth was dorothy any one lse could confirm what I have found and why have a private baptism was this common


MaureeninNY Report 27 Nov 2011 13:41

Has this been posted yet? (Sorry-I'm totally confused!).
1911 census transcription details for: 123 Burlington Road Thornton Heath
RG14PN3395 RG78PN127 RD39 SD4 ED28 SN118

Reg. District: Croydon Sub District: North Croydon

TYRRELL, William Bertram Head Married M 33 1878 Letter Sorter Sussex Hastings
TYRRELL, Esther Louisa Wife Married
8 years F 32 1879 London Balham
TYRRELL, Grace Isabel Daughter F 5 1906 Surrey Croydon
SHEFFIELD, Joseph Father In Law Widower M 73 1838 Retired Fishmonger Old Age Pensioner London Hackney Rd 28 Charles ST
GARNER, Ruby Dorothy Constance Niece Single F 16 1895 Actress Surrey Croydon