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Enie D N Forder

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


MaureeninNY Report 27 Nov 2011 13:59

Oh dear.



Lucy Report 27 Nov 2011 14:56

Hi yes i looked at this to this was a year ago this thread was mainly about my nan struggled to findher birth certificate but have ordered it now.

That thread was far to confusing there was to much information on thre i had to start again beacuse i dont think some of it was correct.

As far as i have got so far is

My nan - enie d n Forder born 1942 aberdeen

Her mum Ruby Georgina Gordon married John Forder 1939 Camberwell

Ruby Georgina Gordon born 1914 lambeth London

Mothers maiden name Carash

Mothers name we think is Dorothy married a Gustav H N De Becker

This is all the confirmed information i have managed to do

I am struggling to make sense of everything as there are so many surnames and name changes


Lucy Report 27 Nov 2011 18:20

Could anyone recap or link what is previou
sly on the thread I'm finfing it hard to make sense of previous comments many thanks


SylviaInCanada Report 27 Nov 2011 21:33


re private baptism

It was common when the child was poorly and not expected to live .............. hence why I posted the death registration.

People who had not been baptised could not be buried in the consecrated land in a churchyard or cemetery .............. hence why a fast baptism would be done if a child was so sick after birth that it seemed it would not survive.

In fact, ANYONE could do a baptism for such a child, to ensure that he/she would be buried in consecrated ground ................... if it seemed that it would be impossible for a priest to make it to the house, a nurse, midwife, or family member could do it.

I am convinced that many a still born child would have been baptised in such a way ................... and the nurse would then say that the child had taken a couple of breaths after birth.

I can only repeat what I said earlier .......... wait for that certificate to arrive.

That will solve at least one problem (at least we hope it will!) .......... but it is far too easy to make mistakes when one continues with hypotheses.

I find this family very strange .................. Carash's pop up, but then you can't find them anywhere else. There must be a lot of "name shifters" among them!

We just have to hope that they told the truth somewhere!



SylviaInCanada Report 27 Nov 2011 21:38

This is the marriage, taken from, for Dorothy Carash and Gustav de Becker

Marriages Dec 1935 (>99%)

Carash Dorothy C Hoffman Wandsworth 1d 1205
Carash Dorothy C De Becker Wandsworth 1d 1205
De Becker Gustav H N Carash Wandsworth 1d 1205
Hoffmann Gustav H N Carash Wandsworth 1d 1205

so Gustav was apparently also known as Gustav H N Hoffmann



Lucy Report 27 Nov 2011 22:29

Ah thanks for that information that's really helpful dud not k
now that I ve ordered a few certificates so not going to go any further back till I get some concrete evidence yes lots of name shifters we knew this side of the family had lots of secrets can't wait to uncover it all just need to go one step at a time the scotland records take up 15 days the others should come quicker. I to also found this marriage which we can confirm is correct thanks for the help and that usefu piece of infornation xx


rootgatherer Report 28 Nov 2011 08:46

The 1911 census that Maureen has posted is very helpful. I believe that the Dorothy Ruby Constance Garner on that is this person.

Births Jun 1895 Carash Ruby Dorothy Croydon 2a 241

She obviously took her stepfather's name when her mother, Emma Georgina Carash, maiden name Sheffield marry Mr. Garner in 1906. When her children were born she gave her maiden name as Carash which was the name that her birth was registered as.


rootgatherer Report 28 Nov 2011 09:01

On his marriage Cedric Thomas Joseph Carash gave his father as Henry Thomas Carash, a Civil Engineer, (deceased).

Cedric's occupation is Chauffeur.


Lucy Report 28 Nov 2011 13:35

Brilliant this makes perfect sense solved the mystery wish peope would not keep re marrying and changing there names though! Thank you so much and yes that is ruby dorothy birth is correct thank you


Lucy Report 28 Nov 2011 17:00

I know this will sound very stupid when you say Chauffeur, did they have cars in those days opr is it a different kind of chauffeur?


Lucy Report 28 Nov 2011 18:29

Repost for cenus information of John Sheffield for Mel



SylviaInCanada Report 28 Nov 2011 18:50


Good summing up of information already posted on this thread.

I think we had all assumed this.

The problem is then in trying to find the earlier Carash

Thus Cedric gives his father as Henry Thomas Carash, Civil Engineer

BUT Henry Thomas Carash cannot then be found before that!

So far, I don't think anyone has found any of the Carash's mentioned on any bmd!

One thing I have noticed, is that Civil Engineer appears to be a "family" occupation. Micklewright Carash, father of Claude Albert, is shown as Civil Engineer on the baptism record for Claude.

....... but, as I said, have been unable to find them anywhere else other than on the certificate or register.

As for Ruby Dorothy, I believe Lucy is getting that birth certificate, and will then see who is claimed to be her father.



SylviaInCanada Report 28 Nov 2011 18:58


re Cedric baing a Chauffeur

There were cars in 1919 ....... some very elegant models.

The first car was sometime in the 1880s, I think, and it was very common for wealthy people to have cars, and a chauffeur, by the 1890s.



Lucy Report 28 Nov 2011 19:11

wow very intresting wonder what kind of people he drove for...

Thank you for that infomation

I have ordered Ruby Dorothys Birth certifcate

As well as her marriage certificate to John Forder

Also my nans birth certificate from scotland

Hopefully they will hold some clues then i can order more from people for more confirmation.

Many thanks to all that are helping i know this is very confusing so i aperiacte all the time everyone is taking to help me figure this all out

Many Thanks


SylviaInCanada Report 28 Nov 2011 19:14

I just checked that marriage for Cedric again

Cedric says he was 27, therefore estimated birth year 1892 (if he told the truth)

Agnes said she was 23, therefore estimated birth year 1896

Both Cedric and Agnes gave their address as 12 Farris Road, Southwark

This is not to say that they necessarily lived together, only that one of them might not have lived in the Parish.

When this happened, it was more expensive to get married, as the Banns had to be called in both parishes

................... so people quite often gave the same address to avoid the extra cost.



Lucy Report 28 Nov 2011 19:30

Ah ok, i know this will saound stupid i have printed off the whole thread going through it bit by bit, just want to check who is Cedric and who is he realted to just so i am up to speed?

Many Thanks


SylviaInCanada Report 28 Nov 2011 19:34

Cedric Thomas Joseph Carash would have been old enough to serve in WW1

unfortunately, only about 30% of the records have survived to this day, and many of those thta have survived are badly damaged.

I cannot see a Cedric Carash on the records on ancestry.

Nor can I find a Cedric T J (without surname) who could fit with the known facts.



rootgatherer Report 28 Nov 2011 19:38

OK. I haven't found a birth yet for Cedric as Carash, Micklewright or Sheffield! It looks like his father (from the info on marriage) is the same as the info on the baptism of Claude?

Now the other 2 children whose deaths were registered as Carass had births registered as Micklewright.

It really is very confusing! Perhaps a birth and death certificate for one of those children would help to clarify?


Dea Report 28 Nov 2011 19:39

Wait for that cert Lucy and then come back to us !!!

Dea Xxx


Lucy Report 28 Nov 2011 19:41

Who shall i get the certifiacte for maybe that might help?