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Enie D N Forder

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Lucy

Lucy Report 5 Dec 2011 21:08

Hi Guys

I have not ben ignoring anyone todayy just been going through all the information and trying to get it put on paper there are a few things i have found that have confused me, i have summerised all the information i hope this is right it has taken 3 hours so far, i will cry if it isnt! lol

Emma Georgina Sheffield born 1868 and died 19/6/1941
Her mother was Jane Sheffield born?
Her father was Joesph Sheffield 1838
She had a brother Henry born 1860
A sister Jane born 1864
Another sister Alice born 1866
and finally another brother Robert born 1870

Emma Georgina Sheffield had illigitment children with Micklewright (what was his full name a few pages back it is henry then harry, also his year of birth has been different)

She had Thomas Joesph Carash later uses Cedric TJ Carash in 1892, Then has twins grace and reigonald, died at birth well 0 and grace died at one.
She then had Ruby Dorothy Carash
Then had Claude Albert in 1897 also died 0
So only children surving are Ruby and Cedric father Micklewright?

Emma later re-married William Henry Garner in 1906 brixton at 38 years old he was 64 an older man,given herself as a widow when she never married micklewright as he had a previous family and my emma sounds like the tart in the family lol, and was the mistress

She later re-married a Henry caplin we have letters that just say Mr Caplin and was not liked much by her daughther Ruby

Emma was looked after by her granddaughter Ruby Georgina Gordon (Carash) and there was resentiment in the family

The micklewright man who i am going to say henry? was born in Halifax Canda
He had a wife called Jemima Micklewright they married in 1881 from what ii can gather they had two children Anne (08/05/1887) and Maude Margarite (4/10/1868), both girls where in a girls industrial school

Jemmina re-married in 1903 and also gave herself as widower

He had a brother Fredrick William born 11/07/1864 and was a compositor he married an elizabeth and died in 11/07/1963 in Canada

He had a brother George born 1868 who was a clerk,canada

He had a brother Charles born 1871,who was also a clerk,canada

He had a sister Annie born 1867,Canada who married Ernest Clavey,he was born 1868 a clerk born in stone stafforshire, they had a child Gladys Clavey born in pimlico london

The above micklewright children father was Thomas Micklewright an army officer born........? in canada

Their mother was Mary J Carash hence the Carash surname

Back to Ruby Ruby Dorothy Constance Carash/Garner De Becker
on her daughther Ruby Georginas birth certficate she gives her name as Gordon formally Carsh, she puts the father as Dudley Gordon
But on her daughters marriage certificate she has father name Stewart, they both have the same occupation but different names very strange

To recap Ruby Georgina was born 19th August 1914
and married John James Forder in 1939
Can we fit a dudley Gordon in somewher

Her brother is called Dudley he was born in 1913 i am thinking maybe i should get his birth certificate maybe it may give more clues to this Dudley/Stewart

I hope i have everything right please edit and change this thread accordinaly and help with a few outstanding things

Many thanks to all that have helped me


:-D :-D

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 5 Dec 2011 21:52

Yes, Lucy you are getting there! This is maybe a EUREKA moment! (LOL)

Jemima and Henry / Harry also had a son.

Thomas Harry William Micklewright, born 14 May 1884 and baptised 2 August 1885. Parents Harry Thomas (an Engineer) and Jemima Micklewright.

Harry Thomas / Henry Thomas Micklewright's father Thomas was born in Ireland and a Retired Army Officer on the 1891 census.



rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 5 Dec 2011 21:54

Mr. Caplin's first name was Henry.

Marriages Dec 1924
Caplin Henry Garner Camberwell 1d 1635
GARNER Emma G Caplin Camberwell 1d 1635

Lucy

Lucy Report 5 Dec 2011 22:03

When was Henry/harry born?

I have also just contacted someone who has a dudley gordon born in india, it caught my eye as John forder my nans dad was a stamp collecter we have loads of envolepes from india and did not know why we had them maybe Ruby Georgina was in contact with her dad when he was india?
I have asked the dates of his movements if he was around in 1913-1914 and in 1939 for her marriage also his occupation as a consuling engineer and if he used stewart as another forname

Never know it could be something

I am starting to contact people know i have a grasp on the family, i did not want to ask unless i knew what i was asking for!!

Can we have a recap on the Micklewright side do i ahve all the right peopple mention above in the right places?

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 5 Dec 2011 22:10

We think that this is the birth for Cerdic Thomas Joseph Carash's birth

Births Jun 1892 Micklewright Thomas Joseph Wandsworth 1d 674

Name: Thomas Harry William Micklewright
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1885
Baptism Date: 2 Aug 1885
Father's Name: Harry Thomas Micklewright
Mother's Name: Jemima Micklewright
Parish or Poor Law Union: West Kensington St Matthew
Borough: Hammersmith and Fulham
Register Type: Parish Registers




Here's Annie Micklewright's marriage

Marriages Dec 1888
CLAVEY Ernest Edgell St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 804
MICKLEWRIGHT Annie Marguerite St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 804


Annie's death??

Name: Annie M Clavey
Birth Date: abt 1868
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1953
Age at Death: 85
Registration district: Surrey Northern
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume: 5g
Page: 663


and Ernest's??

Name: Ernest E Clavey
Birth Date: abt 1869
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1941
Age at Death: 72
Registration district: Witney
Inferred County: Oxfordshire
Volume: 3a
Page: 2370


rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 5 Dec 2011 22:21

The Dudley Gordon that I have given you was President of the British Engineer's Association from 1936 to 1939.

See here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dudley_Gordon,_3rd_Marquess_of_Aberdeen_and_Temair

http://heritage.imeche.org/Biographies/DudleyGordon

I don't think that he was born in India though.



Lucy

Lucy Report 5 Dec 2011 22:23

emm i am sure that emmas is cedrics mum, it would not make sense that his mum was jemima he must be the brother of ruby dorothy and son of emma as ruby refers to cedric as brother it this was a bit of an illigitment children hense the carash being used i am sure ruby dorothy never knew she had half brothers and sisters nor she came from canada,

I dont think this could be the one

Lucy

Lucy Report 5 Dec 2011 22:25

ah my bad ignore what i just previoulsy said that info is the other brother i did not have, the son from Henry and Jeminma micklewright

sorry ignore me

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 5 Dec 2011 22:29

Yes, that's "Wright" Lucy!

Lucy

Lucy Report 5 Dec 2011 22:31

lol yes wright

i will see what this person says just contacting lots of people to get as much information as i can evem if it is wrong lol

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 5 Dec 2011 22:34

Perhaps we need someone with a sub. to look at this census to see where he gives as his birthplace?

HOUSEHOLD GORDON DUDLEY GLADSTONE M 1884 27 Dartford Kent



No maybe not as this looks like the birth of the above.

Births Jun 1883 Gordon Dudley Gladstone St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 405

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 5 Dec 2011 22:39

Are you typing up your tree as we speak?

Do you know if Dorothy Ruby Constance Carash had a stage name? I have been trying various sites to find her listed on a theatre programme.

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 5 Dec 2011 22:45

Keeping it altogether while you are typing it up. Here is Henry's marriage.

Marriages Jun 1879
Micklewright Harry Thomas Kensington 1a 4
PALIN Jemima Kensington 1a 4

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 5 Dec 2011 22:49

Ruby Dorothy never came from Canada, it was her father Henry Thomas Micklewright (Later aka Henry Thomas Carash) who was born in Canada of an Irish father (Thomas) and Canadian mother (Mary).

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 5 Dec 2011 22:59

Henry / Harry's brother George in 1911??

HOUSEHOLD MICKLEWRIGHT GEORGE ALBERT M 1868 43 Wandsworth London

living with these people?

HOUSEHOLD MICKLEWRIGHT ALICE MARY F 1875 36 Wandsworth London
HOUSEHOLD MICKLEWRIGHT CECIL GEORGE ROESLER M 1900 11 Wandsworth London
HOUSEHOLD MICKLEWRIGHT ERIC ARTHUR LESLIE M 1901 10 Wandsworth London
HOUSEHOLD MICKLEWRIGHT MOLLY ALICE F 1908 3 Wandsworth London


1901

Name: George Micklewright
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relation: Son-in-Law
Spouse's Name: Alice Micklewright
Gender: Male
Where born: Canada

Civil parish: Camberwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Antholin
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: Peckham
ED, institution, or vessel: 27
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 45
Piece: 508
Folio: 63
Page Number: 9
Household Members: Name Age
William E Rooster 50
Alice Rooster 50
Arthur Rooster 7
George Micklewright 33 Printer's Traveller
Alice Micklewright 26
Cecil Micklewright 1
Eric Micklewright 1 Month
Mary Smith 55


Marriages Sep 1898
MICKLEWRIGHT George Albert St. Saviour 1d 322
Roeszler Alice Mary St. Saviour 1d 322

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 5 Dec 2011 23:10

1911

HOUSEHOLD MICKLEWRIGHT CHARLES NORMAN M 1870 41 Wandsworth London


Living with

HOUSEHOLD MICKLEWRIGHT LAVINIA EMILY F 1874 37 Wandsworth London
HOUSEHOLD MICKLEWRIGHT CHARLES NORMAN M 1870 41 Wandsworth London
HOUSEHOLD MICKLEWRIGHT CYRIL CHARLES M 1900 11 Wandsworth London
HOUSEHOLD MICKLEWRIGHT FRANCIS THOMAS M 1898 13 Wandsworth London
HOUSEHOLD MICKLEWRIGHT LEON NORMAN M 1895 16 Wandsworth London
HOUSEHOLD MICKLEWRIGHT ROY GEORGE M 1904 7 Wandsworth London


Marriages Mar 1895
Bradley Lavinia Emilie St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 668
Micklewright Charles N St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 668


1901

Name: Charles N Micklewright
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Levina E Micklewright
Gender: Male
Where born: Ns, Halifax

Civil parish: Streatham
Ecclesiastical parish: Ascension Balham Hill
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Wandsworth
Sub-registration district: Streatham
ED, institution, or vessel: 35
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 44
Piece: 474
Folio: 110
Page Number: 7
Household Members: Name Age
Charles N Micklewright 31
Levina E Micklewright 28
Leon N Micklewright 6
Francis T Micklewright 4
Cyrie Micklewright 1

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 5 Dec 2011 23:16

Name: Charles N Micklewright
Birth Date: abt 1871
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1935
Age at Death: 64
Registration district: Westminster
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1a
Page: 517


???

Name: Lavinia E Micklewright
Birth Date: abt 1874
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1958
Age at Death: 84
Registration district: Hove
Inferred County: Sussex
Volume: 5h
Page: 422

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 5 Dec 2011 23:18

Do you want to follow any of these children to find out what happen to Henry Thomas / Harry Thomas Micklewright / carash?

chrissiex

chrissiex Report 5 Dec 2011 23:38

just doing a general search at freebmd for the name Dudley Gordon

this person got married but doesn't seem to have got born :-)

Marriages Sep 1917
Goddard Emily / Gordon Greenwich 1d 1770
Gordon Dudley A / Goddard Greenwich 1d 1770

it just seems like around the right time ... children Dudley 1913 and Ruby 1914 born and then the parents estranged ?

I am just doubting that Dudley Gladstone Gordon, 3rd Marquess of Aberdeen and Temair is the Dudley in question ... but you never know, Ruby was an actress, stranger things ...

I wondered whether Dudley A Gordon might really have been A Dudley Gordon

no birth for such a name 1880 to 1900 ... but this interesting bit at the national archives

Scope and content
Divorce Court File: 2813.
Appellant: William Andrew Hannay.
Respondent: Vera Hannay.
> Co-respondent: Alexander Dudley Gordon.
Type: Husband's petition for divorce [HD].
Covering dates 1934
Held by The National Archives, Kew
Legal status Public Record(s)

there is no marriage in England/Wales for William Hannay + Vera so can't tell what ages they were or what the area was

the various names sound possibly Scottish ?


also just wanted to say ... although it does look like Henry/Harry Micklewright abandoned his first family ( children ended up in industrial school ) this situation doesn't always mean 'tart' ;)

getting a divorce was difficult for most people ... whereas in a later generation that is what would have happened, and the new couple would have married and nobody would think too much about it, at that time it often left them partnering without marriage and having 'illegitimate' children even if their partnership was a marriage in all but name ... marriages broke down for all kinds of reasons and we can't tell at this distance what the situation was but Emma and Henry/Harry do seem to have been together for some time

since Emma never married Henry/Harry but called herself widow when she married Garner and married as Carash ... it does seem she considered herself to be married ( or she may just have held herself out as Mrs Carash to explain the children and not wanted to tell the truth about not being married )


edit

there is a Dudley A Gordon of the right age in the 1911 census

GORDON DUDLEY A 1894 17 Blean Kent

he is a boarder ... I can't tell any more details ( eg occupation ) on free search

1901

Dudley A Gordon
born abt 1894 ... city, Surrey, England
relation
city, Sussex
?

don't see a birth of a __Gordon in the matching place or time ... but there were numerous Dudley A births ... possibly slightly interesting even in those two years there were 3 Dudley Stuart births ...

the consistent use of the middle initial in the case of that Dudley A Gordon does suggest that maybe he went by his middle name which was Dudley ( that is a common way of putting the name on census records for people who were known by their middle name for example 'John H Smith' was really Henry John Smith ) ... so he could be Alexander Dudley Gordon ...

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 5 Dec 2011 23:50

Yes, I agree Chrissiex. I did say on one post that it may have been that both Jemima and Emma had lost contact with Henry / Harry and had him presumed dead after 7 years of no contact and therefore assumed that they were widowed.

I'll have a wee look on SP for Alexander Dudley Gordon.

EDIT

Nothing showing on SP