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Enie D N Forder

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 6 Dec 2011 16:08

Gosh Maureen, the way the Carash side panned out, nothing would be impossible with this family!

chrissiex

chrissiex Report 6 Dec 2011 16:15

I'm a little dull today after being up very late last night ... more coffee more coffee ... but I think Maureen has cracked that one too now

I thought last night this had to be our Dudley in 1901 and I do think it is him, Dudley Yates ... I had checked and there is no further record of Dudley Yates


Marriages Mar 1877
Carpenter Abraham Duke E. Preston 2b 454
> Gridley Charles Oscar E. Preston 2b 454
Knight Jane E. Preston 2b 454
> Yates Catherine Alice E. Preston 2b 454


are the boys nephews ? probably too old to be grandchildren ...

but the 'Oscar' in Cecil's name appears to come from the Gridley rather than Yates side

Charles O Gridley aged 88 died 1951 in Surrey ... so born c1863 ... can't find further trace of Catherine ... born 1853 ?

Marriages Sep 1931
Ashby Phyllis M D / Gordon Uckfield 2b 328
Gordon Cecil O / Ashby Uckfield 2b 328


there's a Charles and Catherine Gordon couple in Alverstoke in 1911 but they married there in 1881, so not them ... can't find any Gridleys

but here they are in 1891

Catharine Alice Gridley
spouse Charles Oscar
borh abt 1858 city, Surrey, England
city, London

no kids that I see

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 6 Dec 2011 17:02

Marriages Mar 1877
Carpenter Abraham Duke E. Preston 2b 454
Gridley Charles Oscar E. Preston 2b 454
Knight Jane E. Preston 2b 454
Knight June East Preston 2b 454
Yates Catherine Alice E. Preston 2b 454

Having difficult tracing the Yates back to find a possible mother for those boys. Unless of course it is the neice Edith E who is with Charles and Catherine on one of the census.


I wonder if the 1911 census for the Gridleys would help.

HOUSEHOLD GRIDLEY CHARLES OSCAR M 1853 58 Blean Kent

HOUSEHOLD GRIDLEY CATH A F 1853 58 Blean Kent

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 6 Dec 2011 17:05

I can't see any children for them either Chrissiex.

I think that the Yates mother is a niece of Catherine but which one?

Haven't found Cecil Oscar Yates / Gordon on the 1891 census yet.



Charles Oscar in 1871?

Name: Oscar Gridley
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Son
Father's Name: B P Bilbrough
Mother's Name: Anne Bilbrough
Gender: Male
Where born: Lewisham
Civil parish: Croydon
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
Town: Croydon
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Registration district: Croydon
Sub-registration district: Croydon
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Household schedule number: 13
Piece: 844
Folio: 5
Page Number: 3
Household Members: Name Age
B P Bilbrough 57
Anne Bilbrough 59
Anna Bilbrough 27
James Bilbrough 23
Harry Bilbrough 16
Harriet Moffatt 26
John Knott 65
Jane A Knott 27
Mary A Harling 22
Ellen Rouse 22
Emily Gridley 28
Oscar Gridley 17
Ann Barley 26

MaureeninNY

MaureeninNY Report 6 Dec 2011 17:25

1891 census transcription details for: 19b, German Place, Brighton
RG number: RG12 Piece: 802 Folio: 62 Page: 23

Reg. District: Brighton Sub District: Kemp Town
GORDON, Edith Wife Married F 23 1868 Living On Own Means
Surrey
GORDON, Cecil Son M 1 1890
Surrey
REED, Emily Servant Single F 16 1875 Nurse Domestic Servant
London
COATES, Louisa Niece F 11 1880
Denmark Hill
London

They're transcribed on Ancestry as Hawgood. (name of people previous to them),

I doubt if Edith ever married Mr Gordon:
Deaths Jun 1895 (>99%)
Yates Edith Elizabeth 27 Wandsworth 1d 326

Maureen

chrissiex

chrissiex Report 6 Dec 2011 17:37

rootgatherer I put what I can see for the 1891 in my previous post ( along with the Yates Gridley marriage :-) )

Catharine Alice Gridley
spouse Charles Oscar
borh abt 1858 city, Surrey, England
city, London

if someone can see the 1891 details for that ?

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 6 Dec 2011 17:37

Well found Maureen. Edith is the niece living with the Gridley's in an earlier census.

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 6 Dec 2011 17:45

1881
Name: Chas. O. Gridley
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Alice K. Gridley
Gender: Male
Where born: Greenwich

Civil parish: Putney
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: Upper Richmond Rd 2 Lime Villas
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Hop Merchant

Registration district: Wandsworth
Sub-registration district: Putney
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 663
Folio: 19
Page Number: 32
Household Members: Name Age
Chas. O. Gridley 27
Alice K. Gridley 27
Edith E. Yates 13 Niece
Adelaide C.C. Gridley 8 Niece
Matilda Kench 22
Ellen West 16

1891

Name: Charles Oscar Gridley
Age: 54
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Catharine Alice Gridley
Gender: Male
Where born: Lewisham, Kent, England

Civil parish: Putney
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Putney
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Wandsworth
Sub-registration district: Putney
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 453
Folio: 115
Page Number: 16
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Oscar Gridley 54 <<age could be 37 on image
Catharine Alice Gridley 33
Laura Lee 39 Servant
Alice Francis Redding 22 Servant
Florena Pinyonn 14 Servant

MaureeninNY

MaureeninNY Report 6 Dec 2011 17:47


England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1861-1941 Record for Edith Elizabeth Yates
Yates-Edith Elizabeth of 70 Lavender-sweep New Wandsworth Surrey spinster died 11 pril 1895 Administration London 23 May to Catherine Alice Gridley (wife of Charles Oscar Gridley). Effects 130 9s.

Maureen

chrissiex

chrissiex Report 6 Dec 2011 17:56

and that explains why Dudley and Cecil were in a gentleman's school ... most likely being funded by Charles Oscar Gridley ?

and now if we only could find who Mr Gordon father of Dudley Gordon was but that seems highly unlikely ... the children were registered as Yates so not on birth certificate ... but ... Dudley and Cecil both married as Gordon so perhaps their marriage certificates would give father's name ??

Lucy

Lucy Report 6 Dec 2011 18:59

Wooo loads and loads of info on who the mysterious dudley gordon I was thinking of getting his son dudley born 1913 maybe he could give more details but I'm thinking will it be tge same as ruby what me and family can't work out is why say your name is stewart on your daughters marriage certificate ? Are we still thinking ruby dorothy and dudley are not married even though ob her daughters birth certificate it says ruby dorothy gordon formally carash I'm still waiting for ruby ds birth certificate taking ages though just to confirm the father micklewright also to answer question I won't want any more info on micklewrights other children and wife ill leave it just trying to stick to my family but wil be contacting people though incase the have info on him thanks to all helping and researching I would have never thought my family would be so hard but intresting :-D

chrissiex

chrissiex Report 6 Dec 2011 20:22

but Lucy did -he- say his name was Stewart or did the daughter put his name as Stewart ? was he present at the marriage ?

... don't make me look back through the thread to find out ! :-D

and yes it seems unlikely that Ruby Carash and Dudley Gordon ever married I would say, especially if that is him marrying in 1917 to someone else

as for all the different surnames in your family ... there are people in more families than you would think who have changed their names at some point ... we see enough of them around here that we always keep an eye out for that possibility ! I have a name changer not too far back in both my mother's and my father's family ... one did it to get into the military when he was too young, one did it to hide from the military ...

chrissiex

chrissiex Report 6 Dec 2011 20:35

so here is a wild theory ...

Deaths Dec 1897
Gordon Arthur Charles D H 53 Liverpool 8b 111

the Arthur matches ... D for Dudley ?


1881

Name: Arthur Ch. Gordon
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Louisa Gordon
Gender: Male
Where born: Dublin, Ireland

Occupation: Shareholder In Steamship Co

Civil parish: Kingston On Thames
County/Island: Surrey
Registration district: Kingston
Street Address: 13 Acacia Grove

Arthur Ch. Gordon 38
Louisa Gordon 32 born Canterbury Kent c1849


edit ...

I tried googling variations of the name Arthur Charles D H Gordon ... wondered whether that H meant a double-barrelled surname as a spare initial often does ...

I came upon an Arthur Charles Hamilton-Gordon ( see lower down )

and I was just saying in another thread how it is always wise to look at the page for bmd events ... in case they are registered under two names

Deaths Dec 1897
Gordon Arthur Charles D H 53 Liverpool 8b 111
Hamilton-Gordon Arthur Charles D 53 Liverpool 8b 111

remember this fellow ?

Births Jun 1883
Gordon Dudley Gladstone St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 405
HAMILTON-GORDON D[u_]dley Gladstone St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 405


... I wonder whether they aren't related somehow after all ?

and I'm trying to figure out whether this person comes into it ...

http://www.bl.uk/reshelp/findhelprestype/prbooks/namedcolnprintedmat/namedcolnprintedmatg/namedcolprintedg.html

GORDON, Arthur Charles Hamilton-, 1st Baron Stanmore [1829-1912].

http://reed.dur.ac.uk/xtf/view?docId=ead/pol/wylde.xml

Stanmore, Arthur Charles Hamilton Gordon, first Baron Stanmore (1829-1912) Liberal M.P. for Beverley in the 1850s, later lieutenant governor of New Brunswick. Became governor of Trinidad in 1866, governor of Mauritius in 1871. In 1875 became governor of Fiji (until 1880), then briefly governor of New Zealand, and finally, governor of Ceylon.


cross your fingers because that Arthur Charles Hamilton-Gordon ( born 1829 )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Hamilton-Gordon,_1st_Baron_Stanmore

was the son of Prime Minister George Hamilton-Gordon 4th Earl of Aberdeen :-D

well we can all dream !


edit again to keep all this Hamilton-Gordon stuff together

still can't place Charles Arthur D Hamilton-Gordon in the clan


but here is another candidate ( for father of Dudley and Cecil if they might be from the Hamilton-Gordon family ... a far-fetched idea I know )

http://thepeerage.com/p2556.htm

Ernest Arthur Hamilton-Gordon1
M, #25558, b. 27 June 1866, d. 9 December 1920

Ernest Arthur Hamilton-Gordon was born on 27 June 1866. He was the son of General Hon. Sir Alexander Hamilton-Gordon [ son of the 4th Earl of Aberdeen ] and Caroline Emilia Mary Herschel. He died on 9 December 1920 at age 54.
He gained the rank of temporary Captain and Quartermaster in the service of the Royal Engineers. He fought in the Boer War in 1900, where he was mentioned in despatches. He was decorated with the award of Distinguished Conduct Medal (D.C.M.). He gained the rank of honorary Major in the service of the 14th Battalion, London Regiment. He fought in the First World War.


he seems not to have married ... he is in the 1911

HAMILTON GORDON ERNEST ARTHUR 1867 44 Bromley Kent

Lucy

Lucy Report 6 Dec 2011 22:20

Hi guys he was not present at the marriage cedric john carash her uncle and william james parsons who for someone reason my nans sister has a card with his death furneral service ? Must be related or friend of johns so to confirm who are we thinking is dudley out of all the gentleman?

chrissiex

chrissiex Report 6 Dec 2011 22:28

oops we cross-posted ... I was adding all that fantasy about the Hamilton-Gordons to my post above ( well you really never know ! ) when you posted

I think our theory is that Dudley Gordon was Dudley Arthur Yates, brother of Cecil Oscar Yates, who were sons of Edith Yates and ? Gordon

whether you could ever find out who the Mr Gordon was is the question

Lucy

Lucy Report 6 Dec 2011 22:34

Well I was thinking of getting his sons birth certficate a year earlier maybe tgis could give some information on dudley gordon?

chrissiex

chrissiex Report 6 Dec 2011 22:36

the certificate I would get really is the marriage of Dudley A Gordon

Marriages Sep 1917
Goddard Emily / Gordon Greenwich 1d 1770
Gordon Dudley A / Goddard Greenwich 1d 1770

to see whether anything on it connects him to what you know about your Dudley Gordon ... and whether that Dudley Gordon names his father

Lucy

Lucy Report 6 Dec 2011 22:57

Yer that makes more sense ill do it tomorrow after work ill b on er properly tomorrow evening to help properly and get searching :-D

MaureeninNY

MaureeninNY Report 7 Dec 2011 01:48

Oh! That marriage is on Ancestry. Just sent you a copy,Lucy. It's kind of washed-out,though.

Sorry-have to run....

Maureen

chrissiex

chrissiex Report 7 Dec 2011 02:01

the suspense !!!!