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Scotland - Gertrude Francis White b 08/10/1913

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Gavin

Gavin Report 2 Mar 2013 19:11

Birth cert received for Gertrude Frances White, born 08th October 1913 in Sandilands, Limekilns, Dunfermline
Father is Charles Wallace White - Dockyard Labourer
Mother is Frances Louisa White (was Walker)

Gavin

Gavin Report 21 Feb 2013 10:38

ahhh, Wallace's son William.... fits the birth year.

Gavin

Gavin Report 21 Feb 2013 10:36

Anne

Not sure about a William White....

The other link makes sense, for Clara and James.

Thank you

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 20 Feb 2013 21:58

Adding this here Gavin,
Clara Walker was the daughter of James Walker and Lettice
( sister of Charles Walker who married Fanny Jones)

England & Wales Marriages, 1538-1940
about Clara Walker
Name: Clara Walker
Gender: Female
Birth Date: abt 1858
Age: 22
Father's Name: James Walker
Spouse's Name: James Drower
Spouse's Age: 23
Spouse's Father's Name: William Drower
Marriage Date: 6 Nov 1880
Marriage Place: Bristol, Gloucestershire, England

1881 England Census
about Clara Drower
Name: Clara Drower
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: James Drower
Gender: Female
Where born: Olveston, Gloucestershire, England

Civil parish: Almondsbury
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street Address: New Passage Road
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Thornbury
Sub-registration district: Almondsbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2513
Folio: 42
Page Number: 14
Household Members: Name Age
James Drower 24
Clara Drower 23

1901 Wales Census
about Clara Drower
Name: Clara Drower
Age in 1901: 42
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: James Endicot Drower
Gender: Female
Where born: Oldown, Gloucestershire, England

Civil parish: Portskewett
Ecclesiastical parish: Portskewett
Town: Portskewett
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales

Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image

Registration district: Chepstow
Sub-registration district: Chepstow
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 95
Piece: 4915
Folio: 14
Page Number: 20
Household Members: Name Age
James Endicot Drower 42
Clara Drower 42
Lettice Edith Drower 17
Thomas Henry Drower 13
Albert Charles Drower 12
Frank Drower 9
Alfred Drower 7
Charles Drower 5
Percy Endicot Drower 6 Months

1911 Wales Census
about Clara Drower
Name: Clara Drower
Age in 1911: 53
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Oldon, Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish: Portskewett
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: 28 Sea View Sudbrook Nr Chepstow Mon
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 30
Estimated Marriage Year: 1881
Registration district: Chepstow
Registration District Number: 582
Sub-registration district: Chepstow
ED, institution, or vessel: 01
Household schedule number: 143
Piece: 31679
Household Members: Name Age
James Drower 53
Clara Drower 53
George Drower 29
Alfred Drower 16
Charley Drower 14
Percy Drower 10
James Walker 75 Entered as Boarder but is certainly Clara's father


England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915
about Clara Drower
Name: Clara Drower
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1912
Age at Death: 53
Registration district: Chepstow
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a











GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 20 Feb 2013 16:48

William ?
1911 England Census
about William White
Name: William White
Age in 1911: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1894
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Bath, Somerset
Civil parish: Bath
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Street Address: 16 Grove St, Bath
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Apprentice
Registration district: Bath
Registration District Number: 316
Sub-registration district: Bathwick
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 71
Piece: 14682
Household Members: Name Age
Florence Lye 44
William Lye 19
Percy Lye 18
Walter Lye 16
William White 17
Fred Hillman 18


Gavin

Gavin Report 20 Feb 2013 16:47

inmate??

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 20 Feb 2013 16:41

Yes I did notice
England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Ada White
Name: Ada White
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1897
Registration district: Bath
Inferred County: Somerset
Volume: 5c

1911 "Cottage Home from Bath Workhouse".
Have no idea if Percy White age 7 is connected?

Name: Ada White
Age in 1911: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1897
Relation to Head: Inmate
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Bath
Civil parish: Batheaston
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Street Address: Avon House, Batheaston, Bath
Registration district: Bath
Registration District Number: 316
Sub-registration district: Batheaston
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Household schedule number: 14
Piece: 14735
Household Members: Name Age
William H Purser 30
Alice Purser 35
Percy White 5
George Snook 5
Alice Winstone 33
Ada White 14
Elsie Warren 14
Dora Brown 12
Rosy Rowe 11
Rosy Marsh 7
Louie Smith 7
Mable Francis 6
Alice Brown 9
Bessie Hayward 8
Doris Hayward 6
Doris Rowe 6
Harry Brown 7
Alfred Walker 7

Oh I forgot!
There is no sign of Charles in England at 1911 but I expect he will be somewhere around FIFE! He does match with someone in Dunfermline but it could be red herring




Gavin

Gavin Report 20 Feb 2013 16:30

had you noticed.. ADA will have been born to Sophia, not Louisa.
Birth was 1897.
Louisa died in 1894.

Gavin

Gavin Report 20 Feb 2013 16:25

his death was registered in Q4 of 1906
His son's birth was registered in Q1 of 1907

I wonder if it was a late birth registration and he was actually born in Q4 of 1906... before his dad died... I like to think so.

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 20 Feb 2013 16:07

I cannot remember if we found the death of Charles White's father Wallace.
He was definitely deceased in 1913 when Charles married and I have just found his widow Sophia on a 1911 return.
It is her, married 14 yrs 8 children, 6 living and 2 deceased.
There is only one 4yr old son with her... his name is Francis Thomas White b Bath.
Based on 8 children, was she married before or were they all Wallace's?

However, Wallaces birth and death
England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Wallace W White
Name: Wallace W White
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1866
Registration district: Bath
Inferred County: Somerset
Volume: 5c
Page: 637 (click to see others on page



England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915
about Wallace Walter White
Name: Wallace Walter White
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1906
Age at Death: 40
Registration district: Bath
Inferred County: Somerset
Volume: 5c

1911 England Census
about Sophia White
Name: Sophia White
Age in 1911: 47
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: St Michaels, Bath
Civil parish: Bath
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Street Address: 29 Avon St, Bath
Marital Status: Widowed
Occupation: Charwoman
Registration district: Bath
Registration District Number: 316
Sub-registration district: Walcot
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Household schedule number: 192
Piece: 14722
Household Members: Name Age
Sophia White 47
Francis Thomas White 4 ( mis tracribed as 44yr old Scholar)


The child was born after Wallace's death!
England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Francis Thomas White
Name: Francis Thomas White
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1907
Registration district: Bath
Inferred County: Somerset
Volume: 5c
Page: 464 (click to see others on page)

Collecting Census originals at the mo, and looking at one family at a time.
So far from the 1901 White census to the 1911
19 yr old Gertrude is a servant in MiddX
14 Yr old Ada in the WORKHOUSE!
cannot identify William or Edward





Gavin

Gavin Report 20 Feb 2013 15:19

I am creating the tree on a seperate software and uploading the GEDcom periodically.

If easier, PM me and I will give you my email address.

Thank you

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 20 Feb 2013 14:47

I did spot that 4 or 5 yrs difference too Gavin but, my geographical knowledge of anywhere south of Dumfries is dreadful.
I added it simply because both the baptism and 1851 return have the same place on them.
I have no idea how Laycock, Wiltshire relates to Bath, Somerset ??!!
I would need to use google maps to get a handle on distance.

Edit:
Next step before going forward will be to revisit each census posted and save the original. Posted are transcrptions only, and I feel the need to ensure relationships on each. Would rather not assume everyone was a set of parents and children.
I assume you have been creating a tree?
Once saved, I cam PM them... if the GR system is working?

Gavin

Gavin Report 20 Feb 2013 14:01

Anne

On the Christening you put up (2 posts back); The date of the event is 1791...
From the 1841 & 1851 Census, the age of Jonathan puts his birth at 1796... so maybe this Christening is the wrong person??

England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906
about Johnathan White
Name: Johnathan White
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 25 Sep 1791
Christening Place: Laycock, Wiltshire, England *** ( consistent with 1851 return)
Father's Name: Jonathan White
Mother's Name: Mary

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 19 Feb 2013 23:14

Ok but I am going to bed now.
Just watched tonight's episode of The Following and I am totally wrecked.
Will look at the family stuff again tomorrow after work.

Gavin

Gavin Report 19 Feb 2013 22:55

Ha ha.... You deserve a rest.
I am going to pick it up again tomorrow (work permitting)
I will keep doing bits throughout the day.

Really appreciating your help.

Plenty more requests for me to make of you..... Don't run away for long.

:-D :-D :-D

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 19 Feb 2013 21:44

Nice work on the 1911.
Were any born in Scotland? Dates and places of birth is a good indicator of when the Walkers moved to Scotland.

On the 1841 ( Jonathan White) census in question, all but Ann are Male.

Here we go again.....
England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906
about Johnathan White
Name: Johnathan White
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 25 Sep 1791
Christening Place: Laycock, Wiltshire, England *** ( consistent with 1851 return)
Father's Name: Jonathan White
Mother's Name: Mary


1851 England Census
about Jonathan White
Name: Jonathan White
Age: 56
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1795
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ann White
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Lacock, Wiltshire, England *****

Civil parish: Lyncombe and Widcome
Ecclesiastical parish: Lyncombe and Widcome
Town: Bath
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Registration district: Bath
Sub-registration district: Lyncombe
ED, institution, or vessel: 1d
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 94
Piece: 1942
Folio: 110
Page Number: 20
Household Members: Name Age
Jonathan White 56
Ann White 52 born DEVON
Emma Suddry 11 Daughter In Law/ Nurse Maid ( definitely aged 11yrs??)
Eliza Tomar 29 visitor



England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915
about Jonathan White
Name: Jonathan White
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1859
Registration district: Bath
Inferred County: Somerset
Volume: 5c
Page: 473 (click to see others on page)

This is really odd?
There is a marriage in Bath between Jonathan White and Ann Soudry.
It looked right ... until I saw the marriage date was 1847!
The 11 yr old in the household at 1851 also seems to be a Soudry.
Does this mean that Jonathan married two women, called Ann, or did they wait until 1847 to marry?
There are also too many deaths for an Ann White between 1841 and 1847 in the area to make a definitive decision.
Edit:
perhaps Jonathan and Ann had a son called Jonathan who married Ann Soudry?
Except.........I cant find another, younger couple named Jonathan and Ann on an 1851 return in Bath

Too much info coming through as I can see marriages popping up for the other brothers on the 1841 census.
Need to work their mother out first but ma heid's burstin!



Gavin

Gavin Report 19 Feb 2013 18:47

you are very clever....

I used my last credits as you suggested;

1911 Census
98 Beechgrove Terrace, Limekilns, Sandilands, Dunfermline
Charles Walker - 40
Fanny Walker - 40
Frances L Walker - 19
Florence L Walker - 16
Eleanor M Walker - 7
Doris E Walker - 6
Lilian V Walker - 3
Ernest (maybe Edward) G Walker - 7months

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 19 Feb 2013 18:28

I assumed male, but will check the original after I have fed the family

Gavin

Gavin Report 19 Feb 2013 18:14

would Chas be male or female back then?

Charles or Chastity?

any idea?

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 19 Feb 2013 17:56


This is possibly Esther's husband but I can't find him in 1851?
I think all the other censuses are on the thread....is it only James M White in 1851 that's missing?

1841 England Census
about James White
Name: James White
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Gender: Male
Where born: Somerset, England
Civil parish: Lyncombe and Widcombe
Hundred: Bath Forum
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Sub-registration district: Lyncombe and Widcombe
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 931
Book: 13
Folio: 21
Page Number: 34
Household Members: Name Age
Jonathan White 45
Ann White 45
Chas White 20
William White 12
Samuel White 9
James White 6

Edit:
Do you still have 6 credits left for SP?
If so, you should get that 1911 Dunfermline census for the Walker family...to see if Frances Louisa and her sister Florence had any more siblings!