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Scotland - Gertrude Francis White b 08/10/1913

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


Gavin Report 18 Feb 2013 15:38

found a birth;

Wallace White... no middle name;
Born - 05th April 1862, 12 Castle Street, Dumbarton.

Father is Thomas White, Boiler Maker / Journeyman
Mother is Margaret White (formerly Aitkens? - hard to read)
married in Aug 1843
Cant read the place.... maybe Ireland... nooooo


Gavin Report 18 Feb 2013 15:26

so, a new family to look for.... looks like Dunfermline...

Wallace Walter White - Father

Louisa Helen White - Mother (formerly Gough)

Charles W White - Son (born 1890ish, was 23 at time of marriage in 1913, died 05th Jan 1942)


Gavin Report 18 Feb 2013 15:18

well well well...... Potty to the rescue....

I would never have thought of that... but I have done so and viewed it and it is the right marriage...... and they live up there (I always thought they were visiting from Pontypool in Wales....)

Charles W White - aged 23
Frances Louisa Walker - aged 21

And it does indeed show names of parents

Unfortunately Charles W White doesnt give his middle name, however the confusion in the family as to that is was is now apparant... his father was 'Wallace Walter White' - deceased, an Engine Fitter. Quite a mouthful, so he seems to have used both of his fathers names as his own middle name at different times of his life.

His mother is listed as Louisa Helen White (formerly Gough) - deceased.

Frances Louisa Walker's parents are shown as;

Charles Walker, Foreman Labourer
Fanny Walker (formerly Jones)

looks like I may need those credits...


Potty Report 18 Feb 2013 14:54


why not use those credits to search for Charles and Frances marriage? There is only one marriage on scotlandspeople for a Charles W White and a Frances Walker between 1907 and 1913 - in this case you will be able to view and download the original registration as the restriction on marraiges is 75 years. The marriage cert will give mothers' names as well as fathers - so you will be a generation further back.


Gavin Report 18 Feb 2013 14:27

Hi Gins

Yep, good job I didnt order it then as the officer in Indian Army doesnt ring a bell with me. It could be tho... you never know.

I will wait and see what names the daughters birth certs bring.

I have found and ordered the Scottish one I needed;

Gertrude Frances White
Born - 1913 - Dunfermline, Fife - 424/00 0686

(unfortunately I had to but a pack of credits for only one search.... 29 going to waste on ScottishPeople so if you need any looking at let me know)



Gins Report 18 Feb 2013 13:45

I think this is the marriage that you posted above

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Frances Louisa Walker
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Age: 21
Spouse Name: Arthur Wilfred White <<Officer in Indian army
Spouse Age: 31
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 10 Apr 1912
Parish: Clapham Holy Trinity
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: Walter Frederick Walker <<Manager, retired
Spouse Father Name: Arthur Robert White <<Advertising agent
Register Type: Parish Register


Gavin Report 18 Feb 2013 12:51

I have just ordered the following certs in order to confirm the parents of Gertrude / Dorothy & Lilian

Lilian M. WHITE
Birth - Sep1918 - Stockton - 10a / 137
Death - Mar1930 - Stockton - 10a / 116

Dorothy W. WHITE
Birth - Sep1918 - Stockton - 10a / 137

Hopefully they will confirm the parents names for me.

Gertrude was born in Dunfries, I am trying to register with but the registration emails dont seem to be getting to me so they are looking into it before I can search their records for Gertrude.

Also, I was going to order the following marriage certificate, i was confident it was their mother and father getting married, however, the groom seems to be listed as Albert W. White.... so not sure it is them after all;

Frances L. Walker / WHITE
Marriage - Jun1912 - Wandsworth - 1d / 988

I went for that one as it was the only one around that time which matched with the birth certificate I have got of a Frances louisa Walker (assumed to be Dorothy's mother as I inherited the certificate from her)


Gavin Report 1 Jan 2013 01:23

Pity :-(

That means ordering without knowing if it is correct...

Unless someone with access can verify the content first??? Nice people... ha ha ha

Happy New Year everyone.


rootgatherer Report 31 Dec 2012 23:27

You will need to order Gertrude's birth certificate as births after 1912 are not available to view / download online.

Her birth certificate will also give the date and place of her parents marriage.

(Pity I didn't know last week as I was in the Scotlandspeople Centre and could have looked up her birth for you saving the cost of the certificate).


Gavin Report 31 Dec 2012 23:03

post edited to request help in scotland


Gavin Report 6 Jan 2012 13:31

will do Ivy, just going to see if I can get hold of Gertrudes birth certificate from an uncle to see if it confirms her place of birth before I look to Scotland for help.


Ivy Report 4 Jan 2012 08:47

Hi Gavin,

Not to worry if you were following the wrong line - we all do it somewhere along the line - console yourself that your actual ancestor will have been the better man...

I'll edit my posts above to show that Wallace may be the wrong chap.

Meanwhile, finding the right line might well be easier by looking in Scotland. I've found an assertion (via Google) that a birth certificate from Scotland should show the date and place of the parents' marriage, so finding Gertrude's birth certificate (per above, believed to be 8 Oct 1913) in Scotland may well be very useful.

It might be an idea to edit your first post slightly (for instance to say "Help needed in Scotland to trace my ....") so that the details shown on this board's lists of requests show that you would specifically like help with Scotland.

Good luck!


Gavin Report 3 Jan 2012 13:11

I have now got some certificates from a family member, I can confirm the details on them for Dorothy Winifred White are;
Born 15/07/1918 Stockton on-Tees (entry 68 book 245), registered on 15/08/1918 (I had always thought she was born in Scotland but the certificate shows Stockton..... her sister Gertrude Francis White was born in Dunfermline, Fife).
Dorothy was married to James Frederick White, b22/02/1915 Wallsend, Tynemouth (entry 162, book 95), registered 26/03/1915.

They married in Billingham on 18/12/1948.

Some confusion now occurs as on the marriage certificate her father is named as Charles WALTER White (a joiner)..... I was led to believe it was Charles Wallace White..... so unless there is a mistake on the marriage certificate then it looks like a new line to follow.....


Ivy Report 3 Jan 2012 08:34

If Charles' first child was born in Scotland, then the marriage may be there too; you may need to go via Scotland's People for that, but having no relatives from Scotland, I have never used the website.

Meanwhile, if your family info about his spouse's parents is right, then there are a couple of individuals who may fit as Charles White's spouse:

1911 census (similar info from 1901 and 1891 England census)

Florence Walker d of Charles Wm/ Fannie b abt 1891 in Middlesbro, Yorkshire, England and living in Osmotherley Thimbleby, Yorkshire-North Riding

- this one has a north-east connection;

or 1901 Wales census

Francis L Walker d of Charles/Fanny b abt 1892 in Sudbrook, Monmouthshire, Wales; living at Newport, Monmouthshire

- this one fits the suggested forenames.


Ivy Report 3 Jan 2012 07:54

[EDIT 4.1.12: This might be about the wrong line - need to look for Charles Walter White if Dorothy's marriage certificate is correct]

Also from Bath local BMD,

Bath Death indexes for the years: 1894
Surname Forename(s) Age Sub-District Registers At Reference
WHITE Louisa 28 Lyncombe/Widcombe - First Series Bath LW1/35/089


Ivy Report 3 Jan 2012 07:52

[EDIT 4.1.12: This may be the wrong man - need to look for Charles Walter White b approx 1890 if Dorothy's marriage certificate is correct]

Searching the Bath indexes for children surnamed White, mother's maiden name Gough from 1876 to 1901 gives only two; Charles Wallace in 1889 and Gertrude Ellen in 1891; (so Charles' first daughter named after his sister, if this is the right family)?


Ivy Report 3 Jan 2012 07:45


Following just the Dorothy Winifred White grandparent on this thread, but mindful of mgnv's comments re using local BMD sites, these two birth registrations may be useful:

Name: Dorothy W White
Mother's Maiden Surname: Walker
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1918
Registration district: Stockton
Inferred County: Durham
Volume Number: 10a
Page Number: 137

[EDIT 4.1.12 - above registration confirmed - see 3.1.12 post below]


[EDIT 4.1.12: The CWW below may be the wrong man - need to look for Charles Walter White if Dorothy's marriage certificate is correct]

WHITE Charles Wallace Lyncombe/Widcombe - First Series Bath GOUGH LW1/36/262

- from
- suggesting that Louisa's name of Pritchard when marrying in 1888 (see Mike's post above) was not her maiden name of Gough-a second marriage, or marrying under the name of a step- parent, or perhaps not even the same Louisa?


Gavin Report 2 Jan 2012 16:55

?? New threads were for different lines....

there are 4 lines for my grandparents families...
James Frederick White
Dorothy Winifred White
Stanley James Shepherd
Rose McKie

The only other thread I have is for my cousins line... Holyome.

Not sure where the duplication is coming from? I have referred to each partner in each thread, it is their parentage history I am looking for...

Maybe my stupidity at being new to this... I just assumed each name line should have a separate thread (that's what the instructions for beginners states, name and dates in title).

Apologies for any confusion.


Flick Report 2 Jan 2012 15:36


To get accurate certs. That's the ONLY way to confirm anything

You really should be using freebmd and the FREE 1881 census to do some research yourself


GlitterBaby Report 2 Jan 2012 14:28

Thanks MarieCeleste

Thought I was going mad there ;-)