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Scotland - Gertrude Francis White b 08/10/1913

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Gins

Gins Report 18 Feb 2013 13:45

I think this is the marriage that you posted above


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Frances Louisa Walker
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Age: 21
Spouse Name: Arthur Wilfred White <<Officer in Indian army
Spouse Age: 31
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 10 Apr 1912
Parish: Clapham Holy Trinity
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: Walter Frederick Walker <<Manager, retired
Spouse Father Name: Arthur Robert White <<Advertising agent
Register Type: Parish Register

Gavin

Gavin Report 18 Feb 2013 14:27

Hi Gins

Yep, good job I didnt order it then as the officer in Indian Army doesnt ring a bell with me. It could be tho... you never know.

I will wait and see what names the daughters birth certs bring.

I have found and ordered the Scottish one I needed;

Gertrude Frances White
Born - 1913 - Dunfermline, Fife - 424/00 0686

(unfortunately I had to but a pack of credits for only one search.... 29 going to waste on ScottishPeople so if you need any looking at let me know)

Gavin

Potty

Potty Report 18 Feb 2013 14:54

Gavin,

why not use those credits to search for Charles and Frances marriage? There is only one marriage on scotlandspeople for a Charles W White and a Frances Walker between 1907 and 1913 - in this case you will be able to view and download the original registration as the restriction on marraiges is 75 years. The marriage cert will give mothers' names as well as fathers - so you will be a generation further back.

Gavin

Gavin Report 18 Feb 2013 15:18

well well well...... Potty to the rescue....

I would never have thought of that... but I have done so and viewed it and it is the right marriage...... and they live up there (I always thought they were visiting from Pontypool in Wales....)

Charles W White - aged 23
Frances Louisa Walker - aged 21

And it does indeed show names of parents

Unfortunately Charles W White doesnt give his middle name, however the confusion in the family as to that is was is now apparant... his father was 'Wallace Walter White' - deceased, an Engine Fitter. Quite a mouthful, so he seems to have used both of his fathers names as his own middle name at different times of his life.

His mother is listed as Louisa Helen White (formerly Gough) - deceased.

Frances Louisa Walker's parents are shown as;

Charles Walker, Foreman Labourer
Fanny Walker (formerly Jones)


looks like I may need those credits...

Gavin

Gavin Report 18 Feb 2013 15:26

so, a new family to look for.... looks like Dunfermline...

Wallace Walter White - Father

Louisa Helen White - Mother (formerly Gough)

Charles W White - Son (born 1890ish, was 23 at time of marriage in 1913, died 05th Jan 1942)

Gavin

Gavin Report 18 Feb 2013 15:38

found a birth;

Wallace White... no middle name;
Born - 05th April 1862, 12 Castle Street, Dumbarton.

Father is Thomas White, Boiler Maker / Journeyman
Mother is Margaret White (formerly Aitkens? - hard to read)
married in Aug 1843
Cant read the place.... maybe Ireland... nooooo

Potty

Potty Report 18 Feb 2013 17:18

Instant results with scotlandspeople! Isn't it great not having to wait for the certs to come!

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons:

1891 England Census
about Wallace Walter White - cab driver!
Name: Wallace Walter White
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Louisa White
Gender: Male
Where born: Bath, Somerset, England

Civil parish: Lyncombe and Widcombe
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas A Becket
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Bath
Sub-registration district: Lyncombe
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1933
Folio: 5
Page Number: 4
Household Members: Name Age
Wallace Walter White 24
Louisa White 25
Charles White 1


GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 18 Feb 2013 17:25

Gavin,
It's not a good idea to look for a potential birth for Charles's father without more info.
It will mean wasted credits.
Although Charles and Frances married in Dunfermline in 1913,there is no indication of where Charles was born nor can I find a White/Gough marriage on SP which means they may not be Scottish.
Edit:
This is them
1891 England Census
about Wallace Walter White
Name: Wallace Walter White
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Louisa White
Gender: Male
Where born: Bath, Somerset, England

Civil parish: Lyncombe and Widcombe
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas A Becket
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England

Registration district: Bath
Sub-registration district: Lyncombe
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1933
Folio: 5
Page Number: 4
Household Members: Name Age
Wallace Walter White 24
Louisa White 25 b Wales
Charles White 1 b BATH


Potty

Potty Report 18 Feb 2013 17:34

Marriages Dec 1888 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EDWARDS Eliza Bath 5c 1059
PRITCHARD Louisa Bath 5c 1059
SMITH George Bath 5c 1059
WHITE Wallace Walter Bath 5c 1059

From Bath BMD
1890
WHITE Charles Wallace Lyncombe/Widcombe - First Series Bath GOUGH LW1/36/262

1891
WHITE Gertrude Ellen Lyncombe/Widcombe - First Series Bath GOUGH

Possibly Louisa was married before to a Mr Prichard but I can't find a marriage.
She died in 1894:

WHITE Louisa 28 Lyncombe/Widcombe - First Series Bath LW1/35/089


WHITE Louisa 28 Lyncombe/Widcombe - First Series Bath

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 18 Feb 2013 17:34

Looks like Wallace remarried
1901 England Census
about Wallace White
Name: Wallace White
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sophia White
Gender: Male
Where born: Bath, Somerset, England

Civil parish: Bath
Ecclesiastical parish: Lyncombe St Mark
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Registration district: Bath
Sub-registration district: Lyncombe
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 65
Piece: 2338
Folio: 10
Page Number: 11
Household Members: Name Age
Wallace White 34
Sophia White 33
Charlie White 11 ***
Gertrude White 9
Wm White 7
Ada White 4

Wallace before marriage:

1881 England Census
about Wallace White
Name: Wallace White
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James White
Mother's Name: Hester White
Gender: Male
Where born: Bath, Somerset, England

Civil parish: Lyncombe and Widcombe
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England

Street Address: 7 Chapel Row
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Errand Boy

Registration district: Bath
Sub-registration district: Lyncombe
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2434
Folio: 117
Page Number: 34
Household Members: Name Age
James White 45
Hester White 44
Alfred White 17
Ada White 12
Eliza White 10
George White 9
Minnie White 7
Wallace White 14

1871 England Census
about Wallane W White
Name: Wallane W White
[Wallace W White]
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James M White
Mother's Name: Esther White
Gender: Male
Where born: Bath, Somerset, England
Civil parish: Lyncombe and Widcombe
Ecclesiastical parish: Widcombe
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Registration district: Bath
Sub-registration district: Lyncombe
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 290
Piece: 2484
Folio: 26
Page Number: 45
Household Members: Name Age
James M White 35
Esther White 34
Alfred E White 7
Florence M White 6
Wallane W White 4
Ada B C White 2
Lavinia L White 10 Months



Gavin

Gavin Report 18 Feb 2013 17:58

yayyyy... after so many months of banging heads against brick walls on my other thread.... this one is coming to life

Anne, this one looks like a red herring due to the dates, if its the 1901 census... Gertrude wasnt born until 1913 but this census has her at being 9yo in 1901.

1901 England Census
about Wallace White
Name: Wallace White
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sophia White
Gender: Male
Where born: Bath, Somerset, England

Civil parish: Bath
Ecclesiastical parish: Lyncombe St Mark
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Registration district: Bath
Sub-registration district: Lyncombe
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 65
Piece: 2338
Folio: 10
Page Number: 11
Household Members: Name Age
Wallace White 34
Sophia White 33
Charlie White 11 ***
Gertrude White 9
Wm White 7
Ada White 4

Gavin

Gavin Report 18 Feb 2013 18:03

Potty

Your post for the family in 1891 looks spot on. Great stuff.

this looks about right too... I assume its his birth you found?

From Bath BMD
1890
WHITE Charles Wallace Lyncombe/Widcombe - First Series Bath GOUGH LW1/36/262

confused by this one though... a sibling, later to provide the name for Charles daughter Gertrude?

1891
WHITE Gertrude Ellen Lyncombe/Widcombe - First Series Bath GOUGH

Gavin

Gavin Report 18 Feb 2013 18:26

looks like James & Hester (Esther) had 8 children, one of them being Wallace Walter White

no reference to Hester (Esthers) maiden name....

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 18 Feb 2013 20:04

Death of Louisa and remarriage of Wallace

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915
about Louisa White
Name: Louisa White
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1894
Age at Death: 28
Registration district: Bath
Inferred County: Somerset
Volume: 5c
England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915
about Wallace Walter White
Name: Wallace Walter White
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1896
Registration district: Bath
Inferred County: Somerset
Volume Number: 5c
Page Number: 874 (click to see others on page

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915
about Sophia Batterbury
Name: Sophia Batterbury
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1896
Registration district: Bath
Inferred County: Somerset
Volume Number: 5c
Page Number: 874 (click to see others on page)




GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 18 Feb 2013 20:59

It all falls into place now....................
1891 Wales Census
about Charles Walker
Name: Charles Walker
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Cattybrook, Gloucestershire, England

Civil parish: Portskewett
Ecclesiastical parish: Portskewett
Town: Portskewett
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Chepstow
Sub-registration district: Shire Newton
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4335
Folio: 11
Page Number: 15
Household Members: Name Age
William Paduch 31
Charlotte Paduch 33
Thomas Paduch 11
Rosina Paduch 9
Emily Paduch 7
William Lamey 31
Charles Walker 20 ***
Frances Walker 20 *** b London


England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Frances Louisa Walker
Name: Frances Louisa Walker
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1891
Registration district: Chepstow
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Florence Lettice Walker
Name: Florence Lettice Walker
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1895
Registration district: Chepstow
Inferred County: Monmouthshire

1901 Wales Census
about Francis L Walker
Name: Francis L Walker
Age in 1901: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1892
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Charles Walker
Mother's Name: Fanny Walker
Gender: Female
Where born: Sudbrook, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil parish: Newport
Ecclesiastical parish: Pillgwenlly Holy Trinity
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Newport (Monmouthshire)
Sub-registration district: Newport
ED, institution, or vessel: 25
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 70
Piece: 4958
Folio: 141
Page Number: 12
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Walker 30 b Gloucester
Fanny Walker 30 b Plaistow, Middx
Francis L Walker 9 b Sudbrook, Monmouthshire
Florence L Walker 6 b Sudbrook, Monmouthshire


This family now matches with one found in DUNFERMLINE at 1911 , so it looks like the WALKER family moved north after 1901, which explains the 1913 marrige in Fife!
Anne



GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 18 Feb 2013 22:13

I will hedge my bet that this is Charles Walker before his marriage to Fanny/Frances Jones.

Look at his mother's name!
1871 England Census
about Charles Walker
Name: Charles Walker
Age: 1 Month
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James Walker
Mother's Name: Lettice Walker
Gender: Male
Where born: Almondsbury, Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish: Almondsbury
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Over Lane
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Registration district: Thornbury
Sub-registration district: Almondsbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 125
Piece: 2584
Folio: 49
Page Number: 25
Household Members: Name Age
James Walker 37
Lettice Walker 30
Jane Walker 8
Martha Walker 6
Guy T Walker 4
James Walker 2
Charles Walker 1 Month

1881 England Census
about Charles Walker
Name: Charles Walker
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James Walker
Mother's Name: Lettice Walker
Gender: Male
Where born: Almondsbury, Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish: Almondsbury
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street Address: No 10 Cattybrook Huts ****
Registration district: Thornbury
Sub-registration district: Almondsbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2513
Folio: 40
Page Number: 9
Household Members: Name Age

James Walker 46
Lettice Walker 42
Guy Thomas Walker 14
James Walker 12
Charles Walker 10
Emily Walker 7
Louisa Walker 5

Aha!
England & Wales Marriages, 1538-1940
about Lettice Guy
Name: Lettice Guy
Gender: Female
Birth Date: abt 1838
Age: 20
Father's Name: Thomas Holder Guy
Spouse's Name: James Walker
Spouse's Age: 22
Spouse's Father's Name: Robert Walker
Marriage Date: 10 May 1858
Marriage Place: Bristol, Gloucestershire, England

It's moving very fast now Gavin
Anne




GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 19 Feb 2013 10:57

Gavin,

Just to clarify
....Going right back to the start of this thread re Gertrude Frances White b 1913.

The child was registered in Dunfermline, Fife, rather than Dumfries.
This birth is fairly consistent with the White/Walker marriage in Dunfermline

Therefore it would seem right that Charles White had both a sister b1891 AND a daughter b1913, and both named Gertrude.

Anne

Gavin

Gavin Report 19 Feb 2013 11:32

Anne

That is fantastic.... I am capturing all of this into my tree, its coming really fast now.

Amazing how after 2 years of really slow progress on one line (my paternal grandfather), that this line (my paternal grandmother) is really flying....
amazing information, thank you so much

Gavin

Gavin

Gavin Report 19 Feb 2013 11:37

Anne, yes I thought that when I saw the name Gertrude....

Seems to be similar story with the name 'Lettice' further back.....

They were certainly ones for continuity of names...

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 19 Feb 2013 11:48

I was surprised at the number of females who were called Lettice Guy, but this is the one.....
1851 England Census
about Lettice Guy
Name: Lettice Guy
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Thomas Guy
Mother's Name: Montha Guy
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Stonehouse, Devon, England
Civil parish: East Stonehouse
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Registration district: East Stonehouse
Sub-registration district: East Stonehouse
ED, institution, or vessel: 1f
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 38
Piece: 1880
Folio: 211
Page Number: 8
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Guy 41
Montha Guy 40
Lettice Guy 13
Jane Guy 12
Hannah Guy 3

And her parents at home AFTER her marriage.

1861 England Census
about Thomas H Guy
Name: Thomas H Guy
Age: 52
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1809
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Martha Guy
Gender: Male
Where born: Stonehouse, Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish: Bedminster
Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Registration district: Bedminster
Sub-registration district: Bedminster
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 318
Piece: 1704
Folio: 103
Page Number: 54
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas H Guy 52
Martha Guy 50
Hannah Guy 15
Thos H Guy 6
Eliza Collens 15

Will try to find relevant deaths now.
Anne