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JOHN TROOP BORN 1874

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Elaine

Elaine Report 8 Mar 2012 21:22

SylviaInCanada
Thanks very much for that Im sure he just did a runner and remarried over here to somebody else. I suppose in those days it was easy to say you were single as there wasnt the internet or mobile phones to check up on.
I bet it went on a lot more than is thought of. It would have been easy for a man to say Im off to work and a few hours later be in another part of the country. Men !!! :-|

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 8 Mar 2012 19:18

Hi Elaine

I consulted a friend off-site, who does know much more about Canadian records.

This is the email I received from that friend this morning ...........................

------------------

Not in the 1911 at automatedgenealogy.com

http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/index.jsp


Not in WWI at collectionscanada

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-100.01-e.php



If he did proceed on to the US and die in the 1906 earthquake, he didn't make it onto any US census so he'd be very hard to find anything about.

His name isn't here:

http://www.sfmuseum.org/perished/index.html
http://www.sfmuseum.org/perished/who49.html

list of victims of the earthquake


To look for him generally in Canada ... marriages and deaths in Ontario and BC are about the only things available ... so it doesn't look too hopeful, I fear.

---------------




sorry




sylvia

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 7 Mar 2012 23:09

Elaine


They could have made up a story for the neighbours and friends!


and of course the child would be told the same story, so that she did not inadvertently tell the neighbours and friends otherwise.


I can see a possible scenario here .....................


John marries Annie, possibly only to give her a little bit of respectability..

For whatever reason they did not live together ................. the reason given to neighbours and friends being .............

"we don't have enough room in this house (ie, Annie's parents). It isn't worth them getting a place to themselves because he's being sent over to America by his company. He got a room as close as he could to here."


John then leaves for his new job, which may have been in Canada OR Canada could just have been the way station on the way to the US.

Friends and neighbours are told "Annie is going to join him when he's settled.".


The San Francisco earthquake provides a wonderful reason for her not to leave home ............. but she continues to call herself married because she knows it was just a made-up story.


It's beginning to look as if Annie didn't want to join him, or maybe never ever had the intention. It was just a marriage of convenience.



and maybe the reason that her parents put her child into the orphanage afrer she died was because they had some reason not to want their grandchild ................... they may have considered Annie having to get married as an absolute disgrace, and the child, the "child of sin".




I wonder if John Troop joined the Canadian military to serve in WW1???



There is even one more slight possibility .......... John Troop was not the father, but for some reason agreed to marry Annie to give her some respectability, and the child a name. Maybe he needed money, and her parents paid him????




sylvia

Elaine

Elaine Report 7 Mar 2012 22:17

Ive tried to look for any death records over here from 1901 till 1911 when nans mam died. But cant find any that would fit his age. Love to know where he went to.The story nan always told her children was her dad John was sent to San Francisco and was killed in the 1906 earthquake, now if that was true and they had had news back of his death then why on the 1911 census was she still classing herself as married not widow?? She would have been a widow for 5 years but said shes been married for 11??? Wouldnt she have been entitled to widows benefit not sure what it was called in those days.

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 7 Mar 2012 19:36

You will see many marriage certificates in which the bride and groom have the same address.


This does NOT mean that they all lived at the same address ...................


if one of them came from a different parish, then Banns would have to be read in both ......... and paid for.


So it was very common for the out-of-parish one to say they lived at the same address as the other. Saved quite a bit of money.



All you can say in most cases, is that they told the Vicar that this was where they both lived, and had lived for whatever was the legal time to establish residence in the Parish.

The Vicar would have to believe them .............. but I'm certain that many did not physically "live" at the same address.



I really wonder whether Annie decided she did not want to go to Canada ............. and whether she made that decision before or after he married her?

That may be the reason why their daughter was told he had been sent to San Francisco.


After all, there is no way to discover how long he had lived at the other address.


I wonder if there would be any way to find out if he made any financial contributions before or after he left England????





sylvia

Vera2010

Vera2010 Report 7 Mar 2012 11:16

I haven't done much more than look for overseas records. I suppose you would need to eliminate him in the UK after 1901. If then you follow the Canadian possibility then you would need some help from the Canadian genes members. Member mgnv I recall has a lot of info on Canadian records.
Perhaps you could change your title to add Canada if thats the route you want to follow.

Its true as you say.about people back in the day. I come from the North East and could name many of the families in the two strees close to where I was born. My mother was born in 1903 so it brings it home to me how sad your husband's mother must feel about her mother's life after her mother died so young.

Regards

Vera

Elaine

Elaine Report 7 Mar 2012 10:52

Vera2010
Ive been to see Hannan Road and its the same as where I live. Terrace houses facing each other, then a road half way down then the next road after the middle road. You could walk from one end to the other in 5 mins And Im sure in those days people knew each others business more than now. You see pictures of ladies stood on their doorsteps "jangling" Liverpool phrase. Id love to know what really happened to him just to tell my mother in law.

Vera2010

Vera2010 Report 7 Mar 2012 10:01

Elaine

The original parish register has them both at 73 Hannan Road at the time of marriage. It is possible he said he was single so that no further questions would be asked. I do however agree with you living so close you would expect him to be known to the people he lodged with but then he was not local to Liverpool.

Vera


Elaine

Elaine Report 7 Mar 2012 08:25

I will find their marriage certificate Im sure it says hes living at the same address? But its the bit about 6 months later hes saying hes single on the census.I often wonder how they met as Annie didnt work , and he wasnt local to Liverpool. Maybe he came up here for work. The story his daughter told everyone was he was sent to San Fransico by his place of work . If you knew nan she wasnt one for making up stories so somebody must hav told her this.

It must have gone on a lot because Ive got the same sort of situation on my dads side of the family. His mams dad went to "America" never to be seen again lol... If only they knew we would have the internet lol.

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 7 Mar 2012 00:47

It would only have taken 2 weeks maximum to reach Canada, even in 1901 ..... they did have steam ships in those days!



but I know nothing more about Canadian records.



One suggestion ................

..................... he got Annie pregnant, and either married her voluntarily or under pressure from her parents, to save her shame, and to give the baby a name.


Then he left as soon as possible after the marriage.


A bit of a cad, but an honourable one!


OR did Annie decide that she could not leave England to go to Canada with him?





sylvia

Vera2010

Vera2010 Report 6 Mar 2012 22:19

Can't be sure of jouney times but doubt it would take 3 months so may be a possibility. Can't find anything about him in Canada but info is limited on Ancestry. Perhaps some of the Canadian genes members may be able to turn something up later.

I will check whether there were any other boarders in 1901 who may be joined him. If you don't have access to the Ancestry site can send you the passenger list.

Vera.

Elaine

Elaine Report 6 Mar 2012 21:28

Vera2010

Could that be him??? his date of birth is 2 years out. Also in April 1901 he was definatly in West Derby Liverpool because hes on the census. How long did ships take to reach Canada in those days? If he arrived on 11 July 1901 would that have been possible??

Vera2010

Vera2010 Report 6 Mar 2012 21:06

The original says he was enaged by agents in England (CP?B) for shops. This possibly workshops. He is down as a Machinist and accompanied by many fitters, machinists and boiler makers also employed by same agent..

John's occupation on his parish marriage record is Turner.

Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935
about J Troop Name: J Troop
Gender: Male
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Date of Arrival: 11 Jul 1901
Vessel: Lake Megantic
Search Ship Database: View the 'Lake Megantic' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: Quebec and Montreal, Quebec
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Roll: T-480

Liverpool, Lancashire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921
about John Troop Name: John Troop
Birth Year: abt 1874
Age: 26
Marriage Date: 21 Oct 1900
Parish: Liverpool St Philip
Spouse's Name: Annie Mckenzie Ross
Father's Name: John Troop
Spouse Father's Name: William John Ross


Vera

Elaine

Elaine Report 6 Mar 2012 19:45


AnnCardiff



6 Mar 2012 18:00




1881

John TROOP Head M Male 48 S Clifton, Nottingham, England General Labourer
Sarah TROOP Wife M Female 47 Gringley On Hill, Nottingham, England
William TROOP Son Male 12 Gainsboro, Lincoln, England Scholar
John TROOP Son Male 7 Gainsborough, Lincoln, England Scholar
Proctor JOHNSON Son In L M Male 21 Gainsborough, Lincoln, England Boiler Maker
Sarah A. JOHNSON Daur M Female 21 S Clifton, Nottingham, England
John W. JOHNSON G Son Male 1 m Gainsboro, Lincoln, England


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling Pillared House Lane Pillared House Yard
Census Place Gainsborough, Lincoln, England


Yes this is my John Troop Isay those names in my sleep lol. Itsjust trying to find him after he left in 1901 and saying hes single as well. He had only moved to the 2nd half of the road !Surely the land lady knew he wasnt single. If he looked out of his house in Hannan Road you could have seen his next address.. Its more for my husbands mam really. From what her mam told her (nan) she had a rotten time in the orphange she was put there at 11. Both her grand parents were still alive and they had 3 other children apart from nans mam Annie who died.

Stuart

Stuart Report 6 Mar 2012 18:45

John Alfred Troop is in Dinnington, Notts with family in 1891 age 16. By 1901 the family are in Rotherham and he is 25. In 1911 he is married and still in Rotherham aged 35.

The John Troop in West Derby 1901, looks to be the right one. Not saying definitely, but would appear to be, following through census'. Perhaps they married to give their child legitimacy and went their separate ways ??

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 6 Mar 2012 18:00

1881

William TROOP Head M Male 25 Fenton, Lincoln, England Farm Labourer
Alice TROOP Wife M Female 25 Marton, Lincoln, England
John Alfred TROOP Son Male 7 Gainsboro, Lincoln, England Scholar
Ada Alice TROOP Dau Female 2 Upton, Lincoln, England
Jeffery Watson TROOP Son Male 1 m Fenton, Lincoln, England


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Census Place Fenton, Lincoln, England
Family History Library Film 1341786
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3298 / 40
Page Number 7

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 6 Mar 2012 18:00

1881

John TROOP Head M Male 48 S Clifton, Nottingham, England General Labourer
Sarah TROOP Wife M Female 47 Gringley On Hill, Nottingham, England
William TROOP Son Male 12 Gainsboro, Lincoln, England Scholar
John TROOP Son Male 7 Gainsborough, Lincoln, England Scholar
Proctor JOHNSON Son In L M Male 21 Gainsborough, Lincoln, England Boiler Maker
Sarah A. JOHNSON Daur M Female 21 S Clifton, Nottingham, England
John W. JOHNSON G Son Male 1 m Gainsboro, Lincoln, England


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling Pillared House Lane Pillared House Yard
Census Place Gainsborough, Lincoln, England
Family History Library Film 1341786
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3296 / 45
Page Number 37

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 6 Mar 2012 17:58

John Troop
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 26 Jun 1874 Holy Trinity,? Gainsborough,? Lincoln,? England
residence: Gainsborough,? Lincoln,? England
parents: John Troop,? Sarah


name: John Troop
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 26 Jun 1874
baptism/christening place: Holy Trinity, Gainsborough, Lincoln, England
father's name: John Troop
mother's name: Sarah
indexing project (batch) number: C01693-7
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1450408

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 6 Mar 2012 17:57

John Troop
England and Wales Census, 1891
birth: Gainsborough,? Lincolnshire
census: 1891 England


name: John Troop
event: Census
event date: 1891
gender: Male
age: 17
relationship to head of household: Son
birthplace: Gainsborough, Lincolnshire
record type: Household
registration district: Gainsborough
sub-district: Gainsborough
ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
civil parish: Gainsborough
county: Lincolnshire

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 6 Mar 2012 17:57

John Troop
England and Wales Census, 1901
birth: 1874 Gainsboro,? Lincolnshire
census: 31 Mar 1901 West Derby,? Lancashire,? England


name: John Troop
event: Census
event date: 31 Mar 1901
gender: Male
age: 27
relationship to head of household: Boarder
birthplace: Gainsboro, Lincolnshire
record type: Household
registration district: West Derby
sub-district: West Derby Western
ecclesiastical parish: St Philips Liverpool
civil parish: West Derby
county: Lancashire