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g.g.ma;charlotte 1881 thanks

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

ChristinaS

ChristinaS Report 18 Apr 2013 20:38

Thanks for letting us know.
:-) :-) :-)

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 4 May 2013 11:05

JUSTICE ; records show George jacob Fellman paid £2 -2 -6 in March (7weeks after the order was made) it seems that £1-1-0 was allowed for medical attendant
I don't know if that would be a midwife or a doctor .
10s and 6d was for a solicitor and 11s was for costs
I am presuming he must also have paid the child maintenance at least at first . I.ve checked the police code of the time ,affiliation orders could be followed by arrest warrents if not paid regularly .

jax

jax Report 12 May 2013 13:29

:-)

lancashireAnn

lancashireAnn Report 12 May 2013 13:49

possible 1911 census put on other thread

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1324681

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 12 May 2013 13:50

Thanks for nudging this jax!

Alisoun has a general query as she'd been wondering what happened to George Jacob Fellman.

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 12 May 2013 22:21

thanks jax, marie-celeste and ann for your continued interest and help .I might have more chance of finding what became of my great grandfather George than my great grandmother Charlotte .Tho i'm not totally giving up giving up on her .

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 12 May 2013 22:43

Alisoun, I know you were wondering if George Jacob Fellman had anglicised his name.

I was actually wondering if Fellman was already an anglicisation of a surname like Feldman?

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 12 May 2013 22:51

Don't know if there's any connection but thought worth mentioning:

The Dundee Courier of 16 November 1906 carried a report of a "well dressed young man" named George Jacob Fellman who was tried and fined £3 for trying to sell pictorial postcards of an indecent nature.
He had come to Dundee from Derby three weeks earlier and it's said he originated from Jersey.

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 12 May 2013 22:55

Yes I thought about that too , for some reason the Fellman s I originally researched became Feldman when they took the boat to USA it seems odd that the spelling became more rather than less foreign . I looked up possible alternative spellings on a family name site .Maybe his mother's first name Mendel would also give a hint to their precise origins . i was surpised because i thought that was a man's name .A more Russian version of George could be Yuri . We assume they were Jewish because of the names and guessing they came to Cheetham.just before 1891 census as George wasn't working then .

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 13 May 2013 00:38

MarieCeleste we must have posted at the same time . Would a reporter have described a 36 year old as a "young" man ? and could he have lost his Germanic/Russian accent enough by then to pass off as being from Jersey ?
surely not my ggfather !
It seems unlikely he'd have taken to travelling the country after being a draper in Birkenhead for at least 2 years (Maisie was born Dec 1899 and he was still in Borough Road in 1901 Census).I don't think he was a total rogue as he must have admitted to fathering the child ....it seems it would have been easier for a man to deny paternity and save money ...(unless there was some other proof .)



How did you find the newspaper report ? I wonder if one was published about the court case when Charlotte Roberts sued our George Jacob Fellman for child support in january 1900 ?

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 13 May 2013 07:46

Hi Alisoun, well I did say I didn't know if there was any connection!

However, there is the following to consider:

I can't see any George or George Jacob Fellman on any census in the Channel Islands, there's nothing to say that part is true.

I personally would call a chap in his mid thirties a young man, but perhaps I'm old!

My Russian friend and her daughter came to England 10 years ago. The mother still has quite a heavy accent, her daughter who was in her teens when she arrived has no trace of a Russian accent at all. Neither does my adopted Russian niece (although she was only 10 when adopted and is 18 now).

The article doesn't imply that the chap was some sort of seedy merchant, it does imply that he was a commercial traveller as he was intending to sell the cards to stationers. The 1901 shows your George Jacob not just as a draper but also as a general dealer. Also, that possible 1911 has him as a traveller collector. Victorian erotica was quite fashionable and what may have been acceptable in parts of England may have offended someone else in Dundee.

I'll send you the actual article so you can decide for yourself.

I found the article when searching the British Newspaper Archives to see if there was any mention of the court order in the papers but this article was all that came up.

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 13 May 2013 08:41

I too would describe 35 as young but wondered if a journalist of the time would havelife expectancy being so much lower then. The article says "belongs to" Jersey ,which seems odd wording , I wonder if it could be the name of a company.( Have PMed you MarieCeleste).
Certainly Dundee seems to punish this offence rather harshly .

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 13 May 2013 12:38

Alisoun, I was wondering if "belongs" Jersey may mean that he'd been living there, even if just for a short while?

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 13 May 2013 21:43

MarieCeleste , yes it could mean that too . You're right about accents too ,children brought up multilingual find it easier to take up a new language as an adult . In Kurland people spoke Russian ,Yiddish and German .. I'm in a bit of a quandary about what to do about these 2 threads now as they are starting to be parallel . This one is getting long + hard to follow but I don't want to close it as I've not given up on finding ggma charlotte yet .

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 13 May 2013 22:24

Alisoun, I know we normally say one thread per family but I do agree it's getting messy.

Why not keep this one as the "Charlotte" thread and the other as the Fellman?

If anything turned up that was relevant to both then they can be cross referenced.

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 14 May 2013 21:11

Wirral archives helped again although there was no address for Charlotte Roberts on the affiliation order they explained that these type of claims were treated in small claims court and not considered worthy of transcripts .Also they would not be newsworthy enough for local paper ;

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 2 Jun 2013 09:31

Think "belongs to jersey" was a mis-typing of "belongs to Jewry"

BIG NEWS ;we now have registration as an alien cert from glamorgan for George Jacob Fellman; dated 1917

including his date of birth 9/1/1871 jacobstadt Russia
proffession in Russia ;debt collector
entry to GB 1891 and a PHOTO
he was in merthyr tydfil + had to reregister in 1920 .

Flip

Flip Report 2 Jun 2013 14:05

Hi Alisoun, - great news on George, covered in your other thread - shame that Latvian bmd site needs an interpreter!

This thread has got so complicated it's difficult to follow, so apologies if I am suggesting something already posted or followed up on.

One thing that stands out, if your grandmother found Charlotte and wrote to her Charlotte must have maintained some contact with either her sister Mary Irvine or the Hollis family after her marriage. Otherwise how could she have found her? We now know her father did not leave a will, therefore his estate would be equally split between his 2 children, although Mary was the executor - not unusual as she was the oldest.

There were no internet searches available to her, and even now there are we can't find Charlotte's marriage with any degree of certainty - all we know is she did marry and have at least one son with a "respectable" job.

Have you tried to follow Mary Roberts/Irvine and her family, see if any of her descendants could hold some information? I see she is on the 1911 census with her husband & son Alexander, but I think there are three more births - twins Eric & John in 1913 and daughter Caroline in 1916 all in Birkenhead.

Flip

Flip Report 2 Jun 2013 14:16

I think this is Isaac (age is right on death reg):

Isaac Irvine
Probate Date: 20 Feb 1939
Death Date: 27 Dec 1938
Death Place: Birkenhead, Merseyside, England
Registry: Liverpool, England

Administration granted to his widow Mary £303 8/3
Address 35 Mossley Road, Tranmere, Birkenhead.

Flip

Flip Report 2 Jun 2013 14:41

Looks like Mary stayed local - probate for son John (again death reg gives right age):

John Irvine
Probate Date: 17 Apr 1951
Death Date: 7 Dec 1950
Death Place: Birkenhead
Registry: London, England

Of 35 Mossley Rd, Tranmere. Admin granted to Mary Irvine, widow.