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g.g.ma;charlotte 1881 thanks

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Flip

Flip Report 2 Oct 2013 07:56

It's a possibility, there was a Charlotte (Ellinor) Roberts born in Liverpool Dec.1881, but she is with her brother 1901/11. Can't see any Lottie's born Liverpool, but your Charlotte was born Birkenhead.

Think the occupation could be a clue if she was a drapers assistant on the birth cert. The address 3 High st appears to be a shop, next image is for a grocer, also and employer working from home. However, there is another Charlotte born 1879 Liverpool, with parents 1901 a single dressmaker - & I can't see her in 1911.

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 12 Oct 2013 12:23

I KNOW that our Charlotte Roberts did not have a middle name or a brother .
Maisie's birth certificate lists 29 Edgar st ;that is where Charlotte's father John and sister Mary lived until John's death in 1908 . I have C's birth and baptism documents which link with the 1891 census Greenfield ST (Charlotte's birth address)is where the family were living,

Even if the High st independent Charlotte Roberts of 1911 is ours ..I wonder where she was in 1901 ( she may have lied about her name age or precise origin) .I can't find a later marriage for her .
Thanks for looking Flip .

Flip

Flip Report 12 Oct 2013 13:00

Well, the 1911 could be either of the Charlotte's - the dressmaker born Liverpool and with her parents in 1901 - or your Charlotte.

I can't find your Charlotte in 1901 either.

Wonder, the property Lottie was at in 1911 was rather large - wonder if either of the Charlotte's inherited money to be able to afford this? Have you ever applied to see if your Charlotte's father left a will - there might be some clues there?

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 12 Oct 2013 13:22

His 1908 probate left sister Mary in charge of his money as "one of the next of kin"
hopefully she shared some of the £313 ,15s 10d with her sister but she wasn't legally obliged too .
Charlotte would have needed an address in order to receive the weekly 4shillings maintenance payment from the father of her baby .He was still in Birkenhead in 1901 unless there was a way his payments could be transferred to the Hollis family that she boarded the baby out to .

jax

jax Report 12 Oct 2013 13:32

So have you not applied for his will?

Flip

Flip Report 12 Oct 2013 13:33

There is no way of knowing who inherited the father's money without the will. It was just probate awarded to Mary - in other words her right to sort out his estate. She may not have benefitted, he could have left his money to the local cats home!

Apply for a trace of the will, costs £6.


Flip

Flip Report 12 Oct 2013 13:35

Should have posted the link, will searches form available here:

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/probate/family-history

jax

jax Report 12 Oct 2013 13:49

I looked further back and you stated he died intestate

Flip

Flip Report 12 Oct 2013 14:03

So you've already checked and he didn't leave a will? We can't tell from the probate record whether he did or not.

If he left no will, the wife would have inherited, or if she had already died the children - in equal portions - so Charlotte should have got half.

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 12 Oct 2013 17:21

The probate said he was intestate .but newly married daughter Mary Irvine wife of Isaac is named as the administrator ; if she did not know her sister's whereabouts how could she be legally obliged to give her half ?

Flip

Flip Report 12 Oct 2013 17:43

I think we already covered aspect, if Maisey managed to find Charlotte - without any internet - Charlotte must have maintained some contact with her family or friends. Otherwise how on earth could she have tracked her down to write?

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 12 Oct 2013 18:08

Maisie tracked her mother in 1924 which could be though her foster family's connections her aunt Mary Irvine may not have known where her neice was boarded out tho it was nearby, or where her sister Charlotte lived . follow the money is a helpful lead tho.

brigid

brigid Report 21 Nov 2013 22:37

My article about the unsuccessful search for our great grandma Lottie Roberts was published in the Dec issue of Family Tree magazine . thanks for all help and leads from people on this site .the family much appreciate it .

Flip

Flip Report 29 Nov 2013 08:24

How sure are you Maisie tracked Charlotte in 1924, and she had a son with "respectable job"? It could narrow down the search for a marriage to before the 1911 census otherwise the son would be too young for a good job.

jax

jax Report 29 Nov 2013 12:26

I didn't think the respectable meant his job Flip...I think it was because he was born to married parents??

Flip

Flip Report 29 Nov 2013 13:08

On one of the other threads about this family I thought Alisoun referred to a respectable job - I had it in my notes, but may be wrong Jax! However, this is the first time they have pinpointed the year Maisey made contact with her mother - throughout the threads it has just been when she was an adult.

brigid

brigid Report 29 Nov 2013 20:27

It was in a letter found in our Nana Maisie's papers after her death
unfortunately we think my late aunt threw it away because she was upset .

my mother did see the letter and believes it said Charlotte's son had a respectable job .


I have written the story as an article of 'what not to do' in family research ;

We still hold out hope that some clues will turn up + have paid wirral archives for some further research .

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 29 Nov 2013 20:36

We assumed Maisie had found out who her birth mother was when she applied for a copy of her birth cert in order to marry in 1924 .But we have no idea when she eventually found Charlotte it could have been in the 30's when she Maisie had children of her own or much later -70/80s
Maisie sent for another copy of birth cert (but short form) in the early 60's (also her papers)It would not have helped with the search .

jax

jax Report 29 Nov 2013 20:42

My grandparents married in 1926.....grandmother didn't need to show hers, if she had she wouldn't have given the wrong middle names

brigid

brigid Report 9 Dec 2013 02:57

thanks Jax .I know that this is when a lot of people discover that their parents were not married . I did think you had to produce birth certificate in order to marry .(you certainly do in other countries) .My grandmother gave her baptism middle name on her will+testement ...are you sure your grandmother didnt do the same at her wedding .so many people had familiar names which were not the same as their christened names or birth cert names .