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No I don't thing you bought the wrong cert, Lexie. I said all along you needed the two birth certificates AND the marriage certificate. When you have all three you will have a greater chance of building the picture

Jude

Thank you for your advice i guess i bought the wrong Cert.False economy.Back to the drawing board

We can't possibly say why the marriage took place where it did.............although it's possible that they were blood relations of some sort

Did you take note of what I posted earlier - along with 1861?

It looks extremely likely that he lied about knowing his father on the marriage cert, and that he was the son of ELLEN.
etc................................

You MUST get birth/baptism info for both Thomas and Jane

BUY these certs!

Births Dec 1858 (>99%)
HARPHAM Thomas Harpham Baxter Worksop 7b 25

Births Mar 1860 (>99%)
HARPHAM Jane Maria Worksop 7b 26


It's the ONLY way to get the answers you want

Lexie as I said a long time ago...I think you need the birth certificates of Jane and Thomas as well.

Thank you for your reply.What i am trying to find is the relationship between Thomas and Jane apart from marriage.They lived in the same house as children.At the age of 11 Jane is found as a servant and i think she may have been a servant in Doncaster in 1881.For whatever reason they then marry in Brighton in 1866 but after a few years return to Worksop.
1871 discribes Thomas as Nephew of Ellen
Ellen on her marriage certificate says her father is James
I dont know who is telling the truth as i cant find anybody together.Why would Thomas and Jane Marry in Brighton

1911 England Census

Name: Thomas Harpham
Age in 1911: 52
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Worksop, Nottingham, England
Civil parish: Worksop
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Street Address: Town Ball Worksop
Marital Status: Married
Years married: 24
Estimated Marriage Year: 1887
Occupation: Town Hall Keeper
Registration district: Worksop
Registration District Number: 427
Sub-registration district: Worksop
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Household schedule number: 104
Piece: 20230
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Harpham 52
Jane Maria Harpham 51
Gladys Anny Harpham 20
Jack Harpham 17

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1861 England Census

Name: Jane Harpham
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
[1860]
Relation: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, England
Civil parish: Worksop
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England

Registration district: Worksop
Sub-registration district: Worksop
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 157
Piece: 2419
Folio: 105
Page Number: 26
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Harpham 50
Ellen Harpham 18
Thomas Harpham 2*********************Grandson
Jane Harpham 7


It looks extremely likely that he lied about knowing his father on the marriage cert, and that he was the son of ELLEN.

Try looking for baptism records, as I doubt that his birth would have been registered

What info are you looking for, Lexie?

Please can anyone offer any advice.Obtained marriage certificate for Thomas Harpham and Jane Maria Harpham
1861 Elizabeth Head
Ellen Daughter
Thomas b 1858
Jane Maria b 1860 Grandchildren

1871 Thomas still living with Ellen discribed as Nephew Ellen now married to Charles Marrison

1886 Thomas Harpham marries Jane Maria Harpham in Brightom
Thomas Harpham b 1858 Labourer father George deceased Grocer
Jane Maria Harpham b 1860 father Charles Harpham Bricklayer
They marry St Peters Church
witnesses David Cooper and Eliza Stubbs

Ive looked and looked but cant come up with any matches can anyone help
Thank you

Sorry for any offence.I do appreciate all the help ive been given.I dont always think to go back after day of posting as i presumed that all the people who had helped me had moved on.I stand rebuked.

No it isn't..........

And some acknowledgement of all the MARRISON info posted a month ago would have been nice!

Is it at all possible to find any details of marriage without buying cert.I am trying to trace a Wilfred Marrison b 1914 Hemsworth who may have married a Ethel Winn Doncaster 1933.He was the son of George Marrison and Mary Harrison.Thank you

West Yorkshire, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1985

Name: George Marrison
Birth Year: abt 1873
Parish: Crofton, All Saints
Burial Date: 31 Dec 1956
Burial Age: 83

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2006

Name: Dorothy Evelyn Bland
Birth Date: 24 Jul 1909
Date of Registration: Oct 1996
Age at Death: 87
Registration district: Wakefield
Inferred County: Yorkshire
Register Number: C47A
District and Subdistrict: 0991C
Entry number: 74


West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1935

Name: Dorothy Evelyn Marrison
Birth Year: abt 1910
Marriage or Bann Date: 26 May 1928
Parish: Wakefield, St Michael
Father's Name: George Marrison
Spouse's Name: Edmund Bland
Spouse's Father's Name: Wallace Bland

1911 census

Person: MARRISON, Dorothy Address: 87 Sandy Lane Worksop

MARRISON, George Head Married M 37 1874 Coal Miner Hewer Notts Worksop VIEW
MARRISON, Mary Wife Married16 years F 35 1876 Notts Worksop VIEW
MARRISON, Winnifred Daughter Single F 17 1894 Laundry Maid Ironer Notts Worksop VIEW
MARRISON, Jessie Daughter Single F 9 1902 Notts Worksop VIEW
MARRISON, Dorothy Daughter Single F 1 1910 Notts Worksop VIEW
HARRISON, Edward Father In Law Widower M 66 1845 Colliery Fireman Below Ground Lincs Scotter VIEW
MARRISON, Joseph Brother Single M 29 1882 Colliery Trammer Underground Notts Worksop

Marriages Jun 1928 (>99%)

Bland Edmund Marrison Wakefield 9c 140
Marrison Dorothy E Bland Wakefield 9c 140

Hope you don't mind, Lexie............but solid blocks of text are a nightmare

Thank you for your help.
The tree Mike said to look at sounds like mine on ancestry ?
I have tried to look at this from every angle.

I managed to trace John H Harpham to his death

Emma Harpham untill 1881 where she is living at Travellers Rest on Gatesford Rd Ellen and Charles also live Gatesford Rd

Can not find Ann after 1871

I managed to trace Thomas Harpham in 1861 said to be grandchild of Elizabeth living with Jane Harpham also said to be grandchild and Ellen said to be daughter of Elizabeth.

A Thomas Harpham Married a Jane Harpham (both from Worksop) in Brighton.
They had two children before going back to Worksop they then had a further son.

Chidren of marriage Arthur T Harpham b 1878 Brighton M a Winifred Kent
they had three children .

Emigrated to S Africa before 1927 returned 1928 to 14 George St Worksop 1938 returned to Danesfield Rd to his sister Gladys Harpham.

The third child of Thomas and Jane was a Jack Harpham who married a M A Raley in 1933 Worksop - as far as i can tell no children.

Gladys Harpham never married and died Danesfield Rd.

What relationship did Thomas /Jane /Ellen have.

Where are James/Elizabeth and Ellen before 1861

So Lexie - like I said...Thomas and Jane Maria's birth certificates and the Brighton marriage would throw a lot of light over your tree :-)

Jude

Thank you for your help.The tree Mike said to look at sounds like mine on ancestry ?I have tried to look at this from every angle.I managed to trace John H Harpham to his death Emma Harpham untill 1881 where she is living at Travellers Rest on Gatesford Rd Ellen and Charles also live Gatesford Rd Can not find Ann after 1871.I managed to trace Thomas Harpham in 1861 said to be grandchild of Elizabeth living with Jane Harpham also said to be grandchild and Ellen said to be daughter of Elizabeth.A Thomas Harpham Married a Jane Harpham both from Worksop in Brighton they had two children before going back to Worksop they then had a further son.Chidren of marriage Arthur T Harpham b 1878 Brighton M a Winifred Kent they had three children .Emigrated to S Africa before 1927 returned 1928 to 14 George St Worksop 1938 returned to Danesfield Rd to his sister Gladys Harpham.The third child of Thomas and Jane was a Jack Harpham who married a M A Raley in 1933 Worksop as far as i can tell no children.Gladys Harpham never married and died Danesfield Rd.What relationship did Thomas /Jane /Ellen have.Where are James/Elizabeth and Ellen before 1861

As posted 21 September

Births Dec 1858 (>99%)
HARPHAM Thomas Harpham Baxter Worksop 7b 25

Births Mar 1860 (>99%)
HARPHAM Jane Maria Worksop 7b 26

Either one will show the parents

I think both would be interesting....and the marriage

Marriages Sep 1886 (>99%)
Harpham Jane Maria Brighton 2b 392
Harpham Thomas Brighton 2b 392

would be useful too...

Anything's possible .. from half siblings or cousins marrying to a bigamy cover-up.

Strange that the tree has her father AND 1st husband as both being Harpham.

Another tree has mother Elizabeth as Harpham and NO father for Ellen.

I would be very interested to see who the father is named as on this certificate


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Dec 1860

Harpham Joseph Worksop 7b 55 <<<<<<<<<
Kennewell John Worksop 7b 55
Marsh Fanny Worksop 7b 55
Mellars Elizabeth Worksop 7b 55
Pearson George Brown Worksop 7b 55
Pickering Helen Worksop 7b 55
Whiteley Ellen Worksop 7b 55 <<<<<<<<<<<<



that's if the pairing is correct !