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Missing marriage/death certificates.

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Dorothy

Dorothy Report 7 Jun 2012 20:03

I am trying to find the missing chains in the link without success and would be grateful for any help.
Beatrice Waters was born in Reading in 1899. She was the daughter of Sarah Waters who died on 23 September 1944 in Balsall Heath, Birmingham. On her mother's funeral card she was called Lynda Beatrice Scott. She died after July 1951 as she was on my mother's wedding photo. Mum told me that she had been divorced and remarried.
Beatrice was an artist and I believe had art exhibitions.

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 7 Jun 2012 20:08

Do you have her exact birth date? If she died 1969-2006 this can be used to look for a death, as DOB is shown on indexes..
Jan

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 7 Jun 2012 20:14

Previous connected thread:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/history/thread/388674

Doesn't look like there were any replies to it but I'll post the original request here in case there's useful background info:

"Do you have any information on Sarah Waters, mother of Lynda Beatrice Scott? She was living at 66 Tindal Street, Balsall Heath, Birmingham when she died on 23 Sep 1944 aged 77 years. She was married to William Waters born 1864, Gosport, Hampshire. Their father was Timothy Waters born in Great Bedwyn 1837. My Grandmother was given Timothy's medal on the death of Sarah Waters by Lynda Beatrice Scott. Sergeant Timothy Waters was in the Wilts Militia, part of 8 Company, (on H.M.S. Acvtive) Portsmouth Division and awarded the Conspicuous Galantry Medal for 31 January 1974, the action at Amoaful. This was part of Kumasi (Coomassie) in the Ashanti war. Do you know how I might obtain a citation for his award or any further information about him? "

Whilst this is a different request sometimes going back helps us come forward!

patchem

patchem Report 7 Jun 2012 20:16

This birth?
Births Mar 1899
Waters Beatrice Reading 2c 336

patchem

patchem Report 7 Jun 2012 20:19

1911
WATERS, Sarah Head Widow F 47 1864 Let Apartments Banbury Oxon
WATERS, Beatrice Daughter F 12 1899 School Reading Berks
WATERS, Timothy Father In Law Widower M 74 1837 Naval Pensioner Great Bedwyn

RG number: RG14 Piece: 17891 Reference: RG14PN17891 RG78PN1092 RD383 SD2 ED7 SN157

Registration District: Kings Norton
Sub District: Balsall Heath Enumeration District: 7
Parish: Balsall Heath Address: 37 Oakfield Road Balsall Heath Birmingham
County: Worcestershire

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 7 Jun 2012 20:34

This gives us her date of birth:

England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

name: Beatrice Waters
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 02 Apr 1899
baptism/christening place: St. Marys, Reading, Berkshire, England
birth date: 06 Dec 1898
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: Willie Waters
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Sarah Waters
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: C01410-0
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1040619
reference number: item 3 p 271

Source Citation
"England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NRDR-CZN : accessed 7 June 2012), Beatrice Waters, 1898.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 7 Jun 2012 20:40

Can't see a death for a Lynda with birthdate 06 Dec 1898, but there are all of these:


England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2006

NAME: Beatrice Ada Balchin
BIRTH: 6 Dec 1898
DEATH: Jan 1985 - Bexley, Kent, England

NAME: Mabel Beatrice B Cramp
BIRTH: 6 Dec 1898
DEATH: Jun 1982 - Surrey Northern, Surrey, England

NAME: Ada Beatrice Dand
BIRTH: 6 Dec 1898
DEATH: Jun 1970 - Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England

NAME: Beatrice Hoyle
BIRTH: 6 Dec 1898
DEATH: Dec 1973 - Heywood, Lancashire, England

NAME: Beatrice Jones
BIRTH: 6 Dec 1898
DEATH: Jun 1980 - Stourbridge, West Midlands, England

NAME: Beatrice Agnes Jukes
BIRTH: 6 Dec 1898
DEATH: Jan 1995 - Walsall, Staffordshire, England

NAME: Beatrice May Morgan
BIRTH: 6 Dec 1898
DEATH: Jan 1988 - Merthyr Tydfil, Mid Glamorgan, Wales

NAME: Rosa Beatrice Penn
BIRTH: 6 Dec 1898
DEATH: Mar 1970 - Brixworth, Northamptonshire, England

NAME: Beatrice Salter
BIRTH: 6 Dec 1898
DEATH: Mar 1984 - Exeter, Devon, England

NAME: Ivy Beatrice A Smith
BIRTH: 6 Dec 1898
DEATH: Jan 1990 - Harrow, England and Wales

NAME: Beatrice Wade
BIRTH: 6 Dec 1898
DEATH: Dec 1977 - Colchester, Essex, England

Mike *

Mike * Report 7 Jun 2012 20:51

Did Beatrice marry Scott first or 2nd ?

Dorothy

Dorothy Report 7 Jun 2012 21:13

I was under the impression Beatrice married Scott second but as my mother died a while ago I cannot confirm this.

Dorothy

Dorothy Report 8 Jun 2012 13:20

Waters is sometimes spelt Walters and I have tried looking for a marriage in the Birmingham area and a subsequent marriage to a Scott. Nothing seems to tie up. I suppose there could have been other marriages.
My mother was from a generation where divorce was frowned upon. As Beatrice searched for my Grandmother for sometime and there was a period of her life when the family were not in touch anything is possible.

Dorothy

Dorothy Report 9 Mar 2013 20:47

I have sent for Beatrice's birth certificate which confirms her date of birth as 6-12-1898. She was given the name Beatrice only. Don't know how she came to use Lydia. Still can not find any records that tie up. Am at a loss which avenue to go down next. Any ideas?

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 9 Mar 2013 20:57

Do you mean Lydia or Linda?
Jan

Dorothy

Dorothy Report 9 Mar 2013 21:03

Sorry - a typing error I meant Lynda. I notice on one of her paintings she signs herself Lynne.

mgnv

mgnv Report 10 Mar 2013 03:11

I looked on FreeBMD for births in Reading 1896-1901 for Beatrice (actually looked for Bea*) and there's only 2 with a surname anything like Waters:

Births Mar 1899 (>99%)
Waters Beatrice Reading 2c 336 [your lass]

Births Dec 1899 (>99%)
Waters Beatrice Maud Reading 2c 352

This agrees with the local index at http://www.berkshirebmd.org.uk/
Berkshire Birth indexes for the years: 1899
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Reference
WATERS Beatrice M St Giles, Reading Reading STG/73/63
WATERS Beatrice St Mary, Reading Reading STM/59/93

Here's a 1901 search for these girls with pob=Reading

1901 England Census Transcription
Street:CROFTS
Parish:WITNEY
Town:WITNEY
City:
County:Oxfordshire
Country:ENGLAND
Ecclesiastical District:ST MARY M C WITNEY
Municipal Ward:
Parliamentary Borough:MID
Registration District:WITNEY
Registration Sub-District: Witney
Enumeration District:10
Archive Reference:RG13 Piece Number:1396 Folio:5 Page:2

GEORGE A SMITH 1863 38 Witney, Oxfordshire HEAD M Blacksmith
ELIZA SMITH 1864 37 Banbury, Oxfordshire WIFE M
ANNIE SMITH 1884 17 Middleton Cheany, Northants DAUGHTER S Blanket Weaver
GEORGINA SMITH 1892 9 South Leigh, Oxfordshire DAUGHTER
DAISY SMITH 1894 7 South Leigh, Oxfordshire DAUGHTER
KATE SMITH 1897 4 Witney, Oxfordshire DAUGHTER
ELIZABETH SMITH 1901 0[8m] Witney, Oxfordshire DAUGHTER
MARIA GASCOIGNE 1889 12 Middleton Cheany, Northants NIECE
BEATRICE WALTERS 1899 2 Reading, Berks NIECE


1901 England Census Transcription
Street:3 ST GEORGES TERRACE OXFORD ROAD
Parish:READING ST MARY
Town:
City:
County:Berkshire
Country:ENGLAND
Ecclesiastical District:ST GEORGE TILEHURST
Municipal Ward:WEST
Parliamentary Borough:SOUTHERN OR NEWBURY
Registration District:READING
Registration Sub-District: St Mary
Enumeration District:18
Archive Reference:RG13 Piece Number:1146 Folio:65 Page:15

CHARLES WATERS 1858 43 Moulsford, Berks HEAD M Jobbing Gardener
ALICE WATERS 1861 40 Beenham, Berks WIFE M
ALBERT ERNEST WATERS 1887 14 Ufton, Berks SON S Biscuit Factory Packer
CAROLINE ELLEN WATERS 1891 10 Ufton, Berks DAUGHTER
GEORGE SIDNEY WATERS 1895 6 Ufton, Berks SON
BEATRICE MAUD WATERS 1899 2 Reading, Berks DAUGHTER

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 10 Mar 2013 03:57

Dorothy


Babies were registered within 6 weeks of birth.

Thyewere then often baptised after that .................. and could well be given one or two more forenames


Birth certificates are usually not altered in those cases.


OR she could well just have liked the name Lynda ............... and decided to use.



Many pe9ople have examples of that in their trees.


OH's maternal grandfather adopted a second forename sometime between signing his apprenticeship papers at the age of 15 and marrying at about age 24. After about 1907, one never sees his name without the 2 names ..................... it could have been a means of distinguishing himself from all the other people in Wales with the same name!!

Mavis

Mavis Report 10 Mar 2013 09:36


Dorothy

Do you think this could be " Beatrice "

Lynda B Cogan died aged 62y in Birmingham Sep Q 1961 9c 372 born 1899 -- if yours would have been 63y in Dec so born 1898 --

National Probate Index

slight name change

Beatrice Lynda Cogan died 11th July 1961 wife of Leslie Cogan -Electrician of 72 Woodfield Road Birmingham £560 - 12sh

not found a marriage England / Wales

A death of a James Leslie Coggan [2 g's] 65y Birminham 1970 Dof B 15 Jan 1905

Birth of a Leslie Coggan Mar 1905 Ecclesall Bierlow [ next to Sheffield ] West Riding - could be in Sheffield 1911 - parents Arthur Richmond 36y and Lilian Alice 30y Coggan married under 1 y -- 2 children

A Leslie Cogan = Jessie Wells 1933

A Beatrice Waters = John Powell Dec 1919 Sheffield no saying if yours ??

Divorces cost money in them days so perhaps no one bothered

A copy of the death cert. and the Will might help could say if an artist

Mavis

Andrew

Andrew Report 10 Mar 2013 11:00

In 1939 both Sarah and Lynda Beatrice Waters are at 65 Tindal Street

Both at same address in 1935 with a Walter Scott

1927 Sarah on her own with James Lambourn.

Andy

Mary

Mary Report 10 Mar 2013 12:04

The 1901 census for beatrice with the Smith family are correct.

George Amos Smith married eliza Pinfold.
Eliza Pinfold 1865 banbury oxford had sister sarah Pinfold 1867 banbury

Sarah Pinfold married William Gascoigne in Banbury 3a 1295 had Maria Gasciogne 1889.(on 1901 census)
Sarah Gascoigne married J/A/S 1897 in Banbury 3a 1897 to William Waters.

Maybe Sarah
1901 St lawrence berkshire D36 >4 Reg district Reading.
Sarah A waters a widow age 37 born Banbury cook/domestic

Maryb.

Mary

Mary Report 10 Mar 2013 19:51

Tindal Street and Woodford Road where Beatrice L Cogan was look as though they were quite near to each other.
So maybe purchasing that death cert might prove fruitful.

In the Teliphne book there was a B L Cogan registered at that address from 1960-1970 say could that have been when James Leslie Cogan died.

Maryb.

Dorothy

Dorothy Report 10 Mar 2013 19:57

I was interested in the information that Sarah and Lynda Beatrice Waters were living at 65 Tindal Street in 1939 and both at the same address in 1935 with a Walter Scott.
In 1944 on her mother's funeral card she is calling herself Lynda Beatrice Scott. Could this mean she married/changed her name to Scott between 1935 and 1944?
Could Walter Scott be her partner? I can find no record that ties up!
As it is said Sarah Waters is on her own with James Lambourn in 1927, is it possible Lynda Beatrice married someone else between 1911and 1927 and reverted back to her maiden name? Not sure how I can begin to solve this mystery.